Author Topic: Peaking for a combine (Read 9940 times)

psychomark32 · « **on:** July 28, 2011, 03:34:36 pm »

Hello all,

I have a couple tryouts coming up for indoor football teams.

I'm a pretty experienced trainee.

Weigh 178. Squat 385. Deadlift 385.

VJ: 37 40: Low:4.40. Hi: 4.61: Median: 4.5

I usually build up to a 1 rep max once a week on the squat or deadlift. I do a couple other supplemental lifts for the p-chain. The rest of my time is devoted to speed training.

What's a good strategy for trying to peak for tryouts?
Rest for a few days to be super recovered and fresh and run the risk of losing technique. Or...hit the field every day for light workouts without pushing it too hard (i.e running at max velocity, doing a lot of volume) etc.

Raptor · « **Reply #1 on:** July 28, 2011, 04:55:17 pm »

I'd go with very low volumes at high intensity every day. But it would probably burn you if you're not used to it. Whatever you do, don't jump too far away from what you'd normally do if you weren't peaking.

Daballa100 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 28, 2011, 05:04:55 pm »

Quote from: Raptor on July 28, 2011, 04:55:17 pm

I'd go with very low volumes at high intensity every day. But it would probably burn you if you're not used to it. Whatever you do, don't jump too far away from what you'd normally do if you weren't peaking.

x2 imo, no sense in doing something new, unless you want to see a miracle happen, but if it's for a tryout, I wouldn't bet on miracles.

Raptor · « **Reply #3 on:** July 28, 2011, 05:10:38 pm »

If you're fond on olympic lifts you're probably good suited to use these as potentiation stuff in low volumes. Also, for me personally, deadlifting in very low volumes/heavy weights has had a delayed potentiation effect (usually 2 days after the deadlift day I jumped very high).

$ick3nin.v3nd3tta · « **Reply #4 on:** July 28, 2011, 10:25:55 pm »

Anybody checked out the combine results for 2011?.

The results show guys who CAN jump, CAN'T run 40's. The top verters are nowhere in the 40 & vice-versa. Not one top 15 verter makes the top 15 of the 40, not one top 15 40dash makes the top 15 of the vert.

Original Link: http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers#workout=FORTY_YARD_DASH&year=2011&position=QB-RB-WR-TE-S-DL-LB-CB-OL-SPEC

Original Link: http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers#workout=VERTICAL_JUMP&year=2011&position=QB-RB-WR-TE-S-DL-LB-CB-OL-SPEC

^ Why is this?.

This should be a great talking point. This opened my eyes BIG style.

LanceSTS · « **Reply #5 on:** July 28, 2011, 11:40:03 pm »

Quote from: psychomark32 on July 28, 2011, 03:34:36 pm

Hello all,

I have a couple tryouts coming up for indoor football teams.

I'm a pretty experienced trainee.

Weigh 178. Squat 385. Deadlift 385.

VJ: 37 40: Low:4.40. Hi: 4.61: Median: 4.5

I usually build up to a 1 rep max once a week on the squat or deadlift. I do a couple other supplemental lifts for the p-chain. The rest of my time is devoted to speed training.

What's a good strategy for trying to peak for tryouts?
Rest for a few days to be super recovered and fresh and run the risk of losing technique. Or...hit the field every day for light workouts without pushing it too hard (i.e running at max velocity, doing a lot of volume) etc.

At the volume youre training with, dont do anything drastic. Schedule youre training so that the last weight training day is at least 3-4 days from the try out, and cut the volume and intensity of your combine drills leading up to the combine. What works well is cut 1/4 the volume on day 1 (week of combine ~7 days out), day 2-4 another 1/4, days 5-6 should be doing 1/4 the volume/intensity of what you normally do on the field, basically going through the movements at half speed.

undoubtable · « **Reply #6 on:** July 29, 2011, 12:11:57 am »

Quote

What works well is cut 1/4 the volume on day 1 (week of combine ~7 days out), day 2-4 another 1/4, days 5-6 should be doing 1/4 the volume/intensity of what you normally do on the field, basically going through the movements at half speed.

Lance, can this concept be used during a deload week when you're in the middle of a training cycle and trying to recover/ do testing before starting up again?

LanceSTS · « **Reply #7 on:** July 29, 2011, 01:11:47 am »

Quote from: undoubtable on July 29, 2011, 12:11:57 am

Quote
What works well is cut 1/4 the volume on day 1 (week of combine ~7 days out), day 2-4 another 1/4, days 5-6 should be doing 1/4 the volume/intensity of what you normally do on the field, basically going through the movements at half speed.

Lance, can this concept be used during a deload week when you're in the middle of a training cycle and trying to recover/ do testing before starting up again?

absolutely. Concerning strictly the weights, it works best to drop nearly all assistance work, and focus on the primary lifts as above.

psychomark32 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 29, 2011, 02:24:01 pm »

Quote from: $ick3nin.v3nd3tta on July 28, 2011, 10:25:55 pm

Anybody checked out the combine results for 2011?.

The results show guys who CAN jump, CAN'T run 40's. The top verters are nowhere in the 40 & vice-versa. Not one top 15 verter makes the top 15 of the 40, not one top 15 40dash makes the top 15 of the vert.

Original Link: http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers#workout=FORTY_YARD_DASH&year=2011&position=QB-RB-WR-TE-S-DL-LB-CB-OL-SPEC

Original Link: http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers#workout=VERTICAL_JUMP&year=2011&position=QB-RB-WR-TE-S-DL-LB-CB-OL-SPEC

^ Why is this?.

This should be a great talking point. This opened my eyes BIG style.

i

i bet you its because guys with great verts are quad dominant and guys with great forty's are more posterior dominant and have great reactive strength. To have a great 40 you have to have nasty top end speed. Guys who are quad dominant have great acceleration but tend to pitter out at the end of the racee becsause there thighs are too big and they have to "push" through the race instead of propel effortlessly.

Raptor · « **Reply #9 on:** July 29, 2011, 03:02:55 pm »

You think that 40 yards are enough for that difference to become obvious?

LanceSTS · « **Reply #10 on:** July 29, 2011, 04:58:57 pm »

No ^^ not blatantly, but a weak posterior chain will still negatively affect short sprints just like will a jump.

Whats happening with the 40yd dash times is guys are getting coached to run the race. The start itself can make the difference in tenths of a second, add in learning to use the valsalva maneuver and correct early acceleration mechanics and you can have a less gifted athlete smoke a more highly gifted one in that event. The vertical jump is not coached as in depth by MOST coaches, and even then, improvements arent going to be as drastic as they will with the 40.

Anyone interested in a better 40yd dash time should read Joe Defrancos book "The 40YD Dash" , its one of the best resources you will ever find for this event.

Raptor · « **Reply #11 on:** July 29, 2011, 06:19:57 pm »

Quote from: LanceSTS on July 29, 2011, 04:58:57 pm

No ^^ not blatantly, but a weak posterior chain will still negatively affect short sprints just like will a jump.

Whats happening with the 40yd dash times is guys are getting coached to run the race. The start itself can make the difference in tenths of a second, add in learning to use the valsalva maneuver and correct early acceleration mechanics and you can have a less gifted athlete smoke a more highly gifted one in that event. The vertical jump is not coached as in depth by MOST coaches, and even then, improvements arent going to be as drastic as they will with the 40.

Anyone interested in a better 40yd dash time should read Joe Defrancos book "The 40YD Dash" , its one of the best resources you will ever find for this event.

Yeah but still,

Quote

The top verters are nowhere in the 40 & vice-versa. Not one top 15 verter makes the top 15 of the 40, not one top 15 40dash makes the top 15 of the vert.

It doesn't make any sense for this to happen.

undoubtable · « **Reply #12 on:** July 29, 2011, 10:37:31 pm »

Thanks Lance, that's very useful stuff...

There is evidence to support both sides of the argument so I doubt you can say that having a good vertical results in slower speeds. I believe that running is a complex skill in itself and maybe some of those guys with great power output haven't mastered it like others.

Evidence supporting low vertical (relatively) but crazy speed:

Jacoby Ford: 33.5 vertical, 9'7 broad jump, 4.28 40yard dash, 10.21 100m
DeSean Jackson : 34.5 vertical, 10'2 broad jump, 4.35 40yd

Evidence of great verts and speed

Trindon Holliday: 42 vert, 9'8" bj, 4.34 40yd, 10.00 100m !!
Calvin Johnson: 44.5 vert, 11'10 bj, 4.33 40yd <---- Crazyyyyy ass shitt

Also I know Bryan Clay has been tested at 43' and Harry AA at 40'

$ick3nin.v3nd3tta · « **Reply #13 on:** July 31, 2011, 06:58:54 am »

Quote from: psychomark32 on July 29, 2011, 02:24:01 pm

I bet you its because guys with great verts are quad dominant and guys with great forty's are more posterior dominant and have great reactive strength. To have a great 40 you have to have nasty top end speed. Guys who are quad dominant have great acceleration but tend to pitter out at the end of the race because there thighs are too big and they have to "push" through the race instead of propel effortlessly.

You have contradicted yourself some what.

"guys with great verts are quad dominant".
"guys who are quad dominant have great acceleration".

Your saying; guys who are quad dominant have great acceleration.

Well doesn't that mean the verters should have a great 40yd dash?.

Quote from: Raptor on July 29, 2011, 06:19:57 pm

It doesn't make any sense for this to happen.

But it has.

Quote from: LanceSTS on July 29, 2011, 04:58:57 pm

Whats happening with the 40yd dash times is guys are getting coached to run the race.

I would have thought every athlete at the combine would put equal emphasis in training on the vert & 40yd dash? & all camps would have coaches with the necessary experience to coach both events.

If it came down to greater coaching, certain States/Universities would dominate the vert/40dash tables?.

TheSituation · « **Reply #14 on:** July 31, 2011, 11:30:39 pm »

Quote from: $ick3nin.v3nd3tta on July 31, 2011, 06:58:54 am

Quote from: psychomark32 on July 29, 2011, 02:24:01 pm
I bet you its because guys with great verts are quad dominant and guys with great forty's are more posterior dominant and have great reactive strength. To have a great 40 you have to have nasty top end speed. Guys who are quad dominant have great acceleration but tend to pitter out at the end of the race because there thighs are too big and they have to "push" through the race instead of propel effortlessly.

You have contradicted yourself some what.

"guys with great verts are quad dominant".
"guys who are quad dominant have great acceleration".

Your saying; guys who are quad dominant have great acceleration.

Well doesn't that mean the verters should have a great 40yd dash?.

Great 10yd dash yes. Not necessarily 40yd.

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Author Topic: Peaking for a combine (Read 9940 times)

psychomark32

Peaking for a combine

Raptor

Re: Peaking for a combine

Daballa100

Re: Peaking for a combine

Raptor

Re: Peaking for a combine

$ick3nin.v3nd3tta

Re: Peaking for a combine

LanceSTS

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undoubtable

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LanceSTS

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psychomark32

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Raptor

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LanceSTS

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Raptor

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undoubtable

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$ick3nin.v3nd3tta

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TheSituation

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