Author Topic: a fast and explosive donkey!  (Read 1863498 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

LBSS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12979
  • plugging away...
  • Respect: +8042
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #2175 on: December 05, 2013, 10:22:55 pm »
+1
WEIGHT: 172.5
SORENESS: hamstrings a little
ACHES/INJURIES: none
MENTAL STATE: pretty good, stressed about work but the gym chills me out

- warm up

- SVJ x 3,3; DSVJ x 3; one-step RVJ x 11; two-step RVJ x 10; SLRVJ x 10

- squat 245 x 5,5,5,5

- superset x 3
-- RDL 225 x 10
-- dip x 10

- pull up ladder x 1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3
15-30s rest between sets

- decline sit up 30 x 10,10

- band pull apart x 20,10,10

- stretch
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

LBSS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12979
  • plugging away...
  • Respect: +8042
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #2176 on: December 07, 2013, 04:32:56 pm »
0
WEIGHT: ???
SORENESS: traps
ACHES/INJURIES: right knee, above patella
MENTAL STATE: great, a little tired

- warm up

- one-step, two-step, three-step RVJ
up around recent PR levels on a few of the three-step. easily grabbing and hanging on rim. got a few on vid, although they weren't the best ones.

- squat 295 x 2,2
best-feeling squats in weeks. easy, smooth.

- superset x 2
-- inverted row x 15
-- DB OHP 35 x 10
-- cable pull through 110 x 10; 160 x 10

- stretch
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

LBSS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12979
  • plugging away...
  • Respect: +8042
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #2177 on: December 07, 2013, 04:41:21 pm »
0
not pretty.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYyitknG_Mc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYyitknG_Mc</a>
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

ChrisM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1880
  • Respect: +1370
    • View Profile
Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #2178 on: December 07, 2013, 05:05:09 pm »
0
Nice!! I think you look a little 'smoother' now in your jumps. I have a few observations/suggestions:

I've noticed you and Ian both come to a jump stop a la Justin Darlington. It looks like it kills some of your momentum. Have you tried coming to a 1-2 plant? (I can post a vid of mine for reference if you'd like).  Not sure if that's the correct terminology lol but you may get a few inches from keeping plant speed up.

Also, I think you're thinking too much before your run up. Whenever I do that I don't jump as well, maybe its a psyche out thing?

Just what's helped me, maybe it'll help you too although changing your plant may take some time to feel natural.
Insert motivational quote here...

LBSS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12979
  • plugging away...
  • Respect: +8042
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #2179 on: December 07, 2013, 05:13:00 pm »
0
thanks for the feedback. i've tried to 1-2 it but it just makes me think too hard and everything goes to hell. something to work on on short approaches at low intensity while continuing to just jump from three steps on out. because yeah it probably does kill some momentum.

didn't occur to me that i was thinking too hard but in retrospect you might be right. i was not in the zone today, nor have i been in a while.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

ChrisM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1880
  • Respect: +1370
    • View Profile
Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #2180 on: December 07, 2013, 05:24:27 pm »
+1
No problem man, the plant thing will definitely take some effort to switch but if it gets you 2-3" then its worth it.

Additionally you were real close to cleanly.dunking the little ball! When that happens it just means you're one step closer!!!
Insert motivational quote here...

ian459

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 146
  • Respect: +12
    • View Profile
Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #2181 on: December 07, 2013, 05:29:07 pm »
+1
Yeah, I have that problem too and I can do the 1-2 much better on outdoor courts.

LBSS, what's your vert at right now compared to your all time PR? And how's your strength now compared to then? Just curious.

Raptor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14620
  • Respect: +2539
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - raptorescu
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #2182 on: December 07, 2013, 06:14:13 pm »
+1
It actually looks good... I have two observations as well:

1) Do you always have this tendency to walk/stand around in a bent knee position? It looks to me from the way you walk around, stand etc that you prefer to take away some tension from your hamstrings/your hamstrings are tight/you prefer to walk around with some tension in your quads? Is any of this true?

2) If you pause at the moment of hip extension, especially with the ball in your hand, you don't go "all the way through" with it. You're better without the ball but looking at it it feels like there isn't a lot of hip HYPERextension ROM going on. I have the same problem.

So what does that mean? It means either the glutes don't fire properly in that particular movement and/or the hip flexors are tight. Have you ever been consistent doing hip thrusts and then stretching the hip flexors?

I think for both you and me, if we solve this hip hyperextension problem, because it's so glaring and obvious, it could make a ton of difference even at our current levels of strength. It messes MORE up than just the power output - it messes positioning, coordination, what the arms do when the legs do something etc etc etc. It's more than just power leakage.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

AGC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1641
  • Respect: +1207
    • View Profile
Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #2183 on: December 08, 2013, 06:51:49 pm »
+2
not pretty.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYyitknG_Mc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYyitknG_Mc</a>

Very nice! You should feel really encouraged from this. I thought your reach was around 7'6''? Grabbing and hanging from rim at 7'6'' should be about 34'' I would have thought. Either way, given you're not planting optimally yet you still got plenty of inches to squeeze out of your current level of performance. If you can start improving all the things people are discussing you should be dunking off a lob within months. Look what scoobychau did recently.

undoubtable

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 927
  • Respect: +565
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #2184 on: December 08, 2013, 10:43:24 pm »
+1
These look a lot smoother than jumps I've seen in the past. Keep it up man, you're definitely on the right track!
GOALS

Squat 340x3               Power clean 265

BP 225x3                    100m - 11.5

Raptor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14620
  • Respect: +2539
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - raptorescu
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #2185 on: December 09, 2013, 06:40:35 am »
+1
Absolutely... I think at this point is just little things that he can do that could make a big difference, even at his current level of strength. He's basically right there.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

LBSS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12979
  • plugging away...
  • Respect: +8042
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #2186 on: December 09, 2013, 08:10:22 am »
0
@chris: yeah, i will work on the 1-2 thing.
@acole: it's not 34 when i'm hanging from the rim, more like 32.5 judging by where my finger felt bruised all weekend.  :uhhhfacepalm:
@undoubtable: thanks man, bit frustrating to feel like i'm just below where i was a year ago after spinning my wheels for 12 months but at least i'm back on a court with some consistency.

Yeah, I have that problem too and I can do the 1-2 much better on outdoor courts.

LBSS, what's your vert at right now compared to your all time PR? And how's your strength now compared to then? Just curious.

about 1.5" lower than all-time PR. i could dunk a ball the size of the one in that video a year ago. strength...don't know how to answer that. i squatted within 10 pounds of my PR (350, PR is 360) on a random saturday in september, after not really working at it, so that's good. couldn't squat that much now but only because i haven't been squatting as much since i got back from my trip a few weeks ago. if i got back into it i'd be back at 350 soon. but i don't want to, it's a distraction. one of these days i'll squat 405, though. just not right now.

It actually looks good... I have two observations as well:

1) Do you always have this tendency to walk/stand around in a bent knee position? It looks to me from the way you walk around, stand etc that you prefer to take away some tension from your hamstrings/your hamstrings are tight/you prefer to walk around with some tension in your quads? Is any of this true?

2) If you pause at the moment of hip extension, especially with the ball in your hand, you don't go "all the way through" with it. You're better without the ball but looking at it it feels like there isn't a lot of hip HYPERextension ROM going on. I have the same problem.

So what does that mean? It means either the glutes don't fire properly in that particular movement and/or the hip flexors are tight. Have you ever been consistent doing hip thrusts and then stretching the hip flexors?

I think for both you and me, if we solve this hip hyperextension problem, because it's so glaring and obvious, it could make a ton of difference even at our current levels of strength. It messes MORE up than just the power output - it messes positioning, coordination, what the arms do when the legs do something etc etc etc. It's more than just power leakage.

1) good point, i don't know. i don't think so, but maybe. never thought about it before. will try to pay attention today.
2) i've gone through periods where i was very consistent stretching hip flexors. i don't tend to stretch or do much activation during morning workouts because time is so compressed, but i should get back into doing stretching and activation stuff when i'm not in the gym. i've fallen off the wagon.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

LBSS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12979
  • plugging away...
  • Respect: +8042
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #2187 on: December 09, 2013, 08:12:26 am »
0
raptor, just watched the video again and i definitely don't always bend my knees that much. i do it when i'm jumping because it helps me get lower in the approach. if my legs are stiff when i start i stay too high. still probably have tight hamstrings and hip flexors, though.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

vag

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6059
  • Respect: +3838
    • View Profile
Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #2188 on: December 09, 2013, 08:26:47 am »
0
I disagree about trying to force a plant change from jump stop to 1-2. Here is kellyb explaining why:

Quote
What type of approach do you use?

Some people like to get really into analyzing their final footwork on their approach. Basically there are 2 styles of 2 foot approach jumps. A step close method and a hop method. On a step close method you'll come in and your final steps will consist of the planting of one foot, than placing the other foot next to the first foot, followed by a jump. On a bounce method you'll come in and both feet will plant simultaneously, then you'll jump.

A few studies have been done comparing the 2 styles and one hasn't been found to be superior to the other, although there are slight differences. (1-3) My opinion is relatively untrained athletes and people with extremely powerful lower legs may get better results from the hop method, as it allows them shorter ground contact times and inherently tends to lessen the degree of knee and hip bend they use, which improves reactive force contribution in beginners, whose coordination usually isn't optimal. Beginners have trouble getting much reactive force contribution from their runups. The hop method does require more force to decelerate and most of the best dunkers use the step close method, or the 1,2 plant. The step close method is advantageous because it's smoother, requires less deceleration, and seems to favor faster approaches, but it also keeps your initial plant leg on the ground a bit longer. It also requires more coordination to fully optimize.

You might experiment a bit with each style to see which one you favor, just don't get in the habit of overanalyzing your steps to the point you turn into a robot. As you become more advanced and work on your approach you will likely naturally gravitate toward a step-close style of approach, but plenty of people have succeeded with either style and when put to the test neither style has proven superior. If you make a point to come in faster and smoother your body will inherently use the style most favorable for your unique physiological characteristics.

Btw, the whole article has more about improving runup/plant, definitely a great and very relevant read: http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/lastlittlebit.html

Edit : agree with raptor and undoubtable. I don't believe that form could bring big improvements now. Yes, keep trying to improve it ( it has improveld a LOT imho ), no, don't overfocus/overanalyze. Feels like you are on the right track to me too, keep doing what you are doing.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 08:34:53 am by vag »
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

LBSS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12979
  • plugging away...
  • Respect: +8042
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #2189 on: December 09, 2013, 08:48:15 am »
+1
thanks vag, i remember that piece by kellyb. what i meant with chris (and i think i said it higher up, or maybe in another thread) is that i'm going to try to work on the 1-2 plant at low intensities and short approaches, but continue to jump ME doing as little thinking as possible in the event. if i end up getting any carryover into my full run-up, that'll be great. but yeah, trying to change course consciously at high speed is a recipe for clumsy movement.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter