Author Topic: a fast and explosive donkey!  (Read 1860351 times)

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LBSS

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #2040 on: September 09, 2013, 10:14:37 am »
0
Why don't you try some RL plants off two? If you're right handed you're going to need less thoracic extension and shoulder flexibility to "dunk" since you can get your arm behind you (unlike in a LR plant with the right hand up).

If you have a stronger right leg and you kick with your left, then a RL plant should actually be a more stable plant for you.

my reach is higher with my left arm, i think in part because the shoulder is higher on that side. because i'm just trying to dunk off a lob, i'm happy to go with my non-dominant hand if it means i can reach higher.

and as subpar as my coordination is LR+left hand up, it's the most natural-feeling way to jump off two and i've practiced it many more times than any other configuration. RL plant is awkward as fuck, next time i jump i'll post some so you see what i mean. twill be ugly. LR+right hand up is also ugly.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

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LBSS

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #2041 on: September 09, 2013, 10:33:33 am »
0
It looks to me like you have a lot going right there, good speed into the jump and a smooth transition into an explosive jump. I'd think more (leg) strength is all you need since your reactivity is very good. But you guys have forgotten way more about jumping than I have ever known.

i have a LOT of technique issues to fix, which were all getting better up until my gym closed last fall and i lost access to a basketball court. not least of which is, as raptor pointed out, that my approach is way too flat. need to do a better job getting low and gathering for the jump. also i'm still pretty close to a straight-up jump stop on these. but witness the fact that these jumps were 4-5" lower than my all-time best jumps and 2-3" lower than i was getting last fall even on bad days. strength hasn't changed a whole lot since then.

that said, yes, i would certainly be well-served by being stronger. i think i could hit a 2x bw squat still with adequate rest and preparation, but could not do it any given day. my 90+% repeated singles multiple times a week have been generally pretty easy. repeatable >2x bw squats would be terrific. i'm going to keep going with my current setup for a while longer but at some point i'll change things up and probably go back into a strength-focused block. and maybe put on some weight for once and finally get around to squatting 405. would be cool to do that at ~185. but i'd have to get new pants.  ::)
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

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Raptor

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #2042 on: September 09, 2013, 11:10:08 am »
0
If I try a RL (non-natural) jump with many steps in the run-up it gets really ugly, but off 1 or 2 steps as a run-up I get as high as off a LR plant.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

LBSS

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #2043 on: September 10, 2013, 09:10:18 pm »
0
WEIGHT: ???
SORENESS: none
ACHES/INJURIES: left hip and quad a bit during warm up but went away
MENTAL STATE: okay, motivation a little low but picked up.

- warm up
brought new bands along and did some resisted jumps for activation. need to figure out a different configuration because they kept hitting my balls. lol.

- SL bound x 6,6,6

- broad jump x 4

- DL bound x 4,4
rugby bros took over the field after second set. these were meh.

- sprint 30m x 3; 30m fly x 2; 60m x 1
4.41, 4.53, 4.66; 3.75, 3.8; 8.16. nice illustration of my athletic profile: okay but not great power/acceleration, bad reactivity/top speed. the frank-dick-predicted 100m times rise for each one of those, from 11.86 for the 4.41 all the way down to 13.3 at the outside for the 8.16. sadly, that probably means i'm closer to 13s over 100m than anything else. don't care too much as i'm not trying to be an adequate 100m runner, but kind of depressing nonetheless. next time i'll run the 60m first and see if that makes a difference. bet it will, actually, and then i won't be so sad.

- SLRVJ and DLRVJ x a few
legs torched

- tempo runs x ?&#@!
did a couple but my legs were done, the flies and 60 take a lot out of them.

- stretch
hurray for bands
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

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T0ddday

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #2044 on: September 10, 2013, 10:24:52 pm »
0
WEIGHT: ???
SORENESS: none
ACHES/INJURIES: left hip and quad a bit during warm up but went away
MENTAL STATE: okay, motivation a little low but picked up.

- warm up
brought new bands along and did some resisted jumps for activation. need to figure out a different configuration because they kept hitting my balls. lol.

- SL bound x 6,6,6

- broad jump x 4

- DL bound x 4,4
rugby bros took over the field after second set. these were meh.

- sprint 30m x 3; 30m fly x 2; 60m x 1
4.41, 4.53, 4.66; 3.75, 3.8; 8.16. nice illustration of my athletic profile: okay but not great power/acceleration, bad reactivity/top speed. the frank-dick-predicted 100m times rise for each one of those, from 11.86 for the 4.41 all the way down to 13.3 at the outside for the 8.16. sadly, that probably means i'm closer to 13s over 100m than anything else. don't care too much as i'm not trying to be an adequate 100m runner, but kind of depressing nonetheless. next time i'll run the 60m first and see if that makes a difference. bet it will, actually, and then i won't be so sad.

- SLRVJ and DLRVJ x a few
legs torched

- tempo runs x ?&#@!
did a couple but my legs were done, the flies and 60 take a lot out of them.

- stretch
hurray for bands

11.8 for someone who doesn't run is pretty fast IMO. 

T0ddday

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #2045 on: September 10, 2013, 10:29:26 pm »
0
yeah i'd imagine the cutoffs are just to intimidate pretenders and make sure that whoever shows up is actually somewhat fast. it'd be hard to field a varsity team if your cutoffs were that ridiculous. 10.3 would have blown away the field at the pac-10 championships last season and been the fourth or fifth-fastest time anyone in the conference had run all year.

btw. oregon had a girl run 10.96 last year!  :-X



Wheres the gym?  I need to make a note for next time I'm in Baltimore. 

Oregon?  English Gardner?   She's a nice one.  She is pro now.  Got 4th in Moscow. 

Yeah, just found out they handtime at the tryout so 10.3 makes more sense.  Will be fun to go on Thursday.  To be fair at the championships last year (it's pac-12 now btw) their were only two guys under 10.2 and they were both 10.0X sprinters.... and both were from USC.   So.... if anyone deserves a ridiculous standard it's the school with like twice as many olympians as any other school.... 

LBSS

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #2046 on: September 10, 2013, 11:40:27 pm »
0
five things:

1. 11.8 would be great but given my 60m time i doubt i'm actually that fast over 100m. let's see how i do when i put that first this weekend.
2. the gym is in canton, although they have locations elsewhere: merritt athletic clubs. best track in the area is at goucher in towson, as far as i can tell. but i haven't been up there in months. next time you're in baltimore let me know for sure. track, gym, both, whatever. working out is always more fun with a partner.
3. yes, it was english gardner, which is a spectacular name.
4. 10.3 handtimed is also fast as balls, for sure.
5. i will NOT be lectured on which conference is called what. HOW DARE YOU. the numbers attached to conference names are now devoid of meaning. the big ten has 12 teams. the big 12 has ten. the pac 12 has 12 now but who knows what will happen as the athletic directors continue their last desperate grab at cable-tv millions? I WILL BURY YOU FOR THIS INSOLENCE T0DDDAY.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

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LBSS

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #2047 on: September 11, 2013, 09:25:46 pm »
0
WEIGHT: 176
SORENESS: hamstrings a little, peroneals a little
ACHES/INJURIES: left hip
MENTAL STATE: good

- warm up

- band resisted SVJ x 3; SVJ x 3

- depth jump @18" x 4,4
about 1-1.5" higher than SVJ

- jump squat 45 x 3,3

- squat 335 x 1,1,1

- bench 175 x 9+3+3+3

- BOR 135 x 10+3+3+3

- GHR negatives x 5; bad form x a few; x 1,1,1,1

- windshield wipers x 12,10

- stretch

kind of a blah workout, although the depth jumps were better than last time.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

Joe

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #2048 on: September 12, 2013, 06:44:10 pm »
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what happened to the progress tracker?

what happened to sets of 5 for squats? is three triples enough volume?
"i threaten to kill myself whenever my parnets tell me to get a job" - bjpenn

T0ddday

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #2049 on: September 13, 2013, 08:55:43 am »
+2
of course slow is relative, but even by the standard of "relatively lean, athletic-looking men in their 20s" i feel like i'm pretty slow. don't really have much to compare to; in ultimate i was never the slowest nor the fastest guy on the field but sport speed is a whole different animal anyway. the only time in ultimate you're ever really near top speed is on a deep throw. and then you're probably running in a slight curve, tracking the disc, and thinking about how you're going to high-point it with another dude right next to you doing the same thing.

i digress. the point is, how to become a faster 60m runner? obviously technique is an issue for me*, but i can't help but feel that improving the deficits limiting my top speed (tendon stiffness? "reactivity?") would also improve my jumping. so what's the Rx? more focus on long sprints? flies? if adarq were still reading this i'd ask him if, looking back, he thinks his high-rep MR half tucks really helped his tendon stiffness.

btw my buddy tahar is moving to tunisia next week. gonna find out more this weekend, apparently it all came together fast.

*as is genetics, obviously, but i can't do anything about that now.

You asked some questions about yourself in Avisheks thread and we were already giving him enough shit about his 30m times so I felt like not hijacking it more and bringing it back to your thread.   A few points.

1) The first problem is it's hard to compare speed.  As illustrated brilliantly by the Nesta Carter video... most relatively lean athletic looking men are really about the same speed till about 20-30m.  Sure, he is a step faster than the other guys but the difference is minor compared to what happens by 50-60m.   The difference in how long in takes for humans to get up to 8 m/s is relatively small compared to the difference in top speed.   To make a decent car analogy; you can think that we all have between 150-160 pound-feet of torque at 2000 rpm but some of us are about to hit ridiculously high peak power at 8000 rpm and some of us essentially crap out at 4000 rpm....  Unfortunately most sports don't involve spend much time at such high RPMs where the huge horsepower resides, so this difference isn't seen.  But they ARE extremely related and you have noticed that it want to get better at...     

2) Unfortunately unlike the vertical jump, most people don't really know how fast they are.  Most of the population you talk about are between 5'8 and 6'3 and know if they can dunk/touch the rim, etc... Which already gives a decent assessment of their jumping ability...  But 100m speed.  Nobody really knows.  If I had to guess I would say if you can run sub 12....   You are fast by the standard you gave.  I really wish more people would find out their speed but I think the mean for that population would have to be around 12.5 with a standard deviation of about 0.5 seconds.  So over 13... slow.  Under 12... fast.   But, of course I wish I had more data.  I've gathered this from going to large high school track meets in the Los Angeles area which is about the only place where most everyone is made to run.  At a standard large meet only the fast kids (ie. the starting wide receivers, etc.) break 12.  Only the slower kids (eg. the distance runners, basketball players) go much over 13.  12.x is standard for an athletic fast kid. 

3) Your question ' i digress. the point is, how to become a faster 60m runner? obviously technique is an issue for me*, but i can't help but feel that improving the deficits limiting my top speed (tendon stiffness? "reactivity?") would also improve my jumping. so what's the Rx? more focus on long sprints?'.   

I completely agree it's helpful and also agree that the RX is all of the above.  The main thing you need is just more time on the track.  If you told me your entire goal was an increased 1rm max in the squat my advice would be to slowly ramp up to squatting 2x daily.  That's the tried and true way to optimize your potential in ALMOST anything.... so it a lot.   Running is one of the semi-exceptions (marathoners for example can run 2x daily marathons)....  but I would still massively increase your time on the track.  The basic gyst would be something like this:

1) Work up to getting to the track/hills/running surface 6-8 times per week.   You want to get better at the 60m.... So run a lot of all out sprints from 30 - 90 meters.   Work on strength training specific to sprinting.   If you want an analogy think of Squat (and others) :: Standing Vertical Jump  is to Single Legged Bounding, Sled Drags, Direct Hamstring and Glute Work :: Sprinting.    If you don't have a sled you can tow someone who is holding you back with band resistance.  You can buy such a device for like 20 dollars.    Stride pattern your way to 10 and maybe even 20 meters.  So put a tape down on step 7 and step 12/13.   DRILL this.   Get even leaner.    For now really alternate intensity.   If today you do 50m single leg bounds, resisted runs and 5 60m sprints....  Tomorrow you can do 40 meter flys (easier on the body), single leg strength training and 5-10 150s.    This is the formula but the main RX is more more more running.    Run with Avishek or someone faster than you.  Get in a 3pt stance, you say go (and get a bit of a head start from this advantage) and try to stay with them to 60m.  Find out where they leave you and work on holding them off.   Don't worry about your 30 m time but every so often run an all out 200 and figure out if your getting faster.   That will work.

------------------------------------------------------

I assume your buddy Tahar is Tunisian.  Man I haven't been back since 2007.  Don't know if I ever will.... why is he going? 

BTW, I'm leaving the country for a week.   Then my track pre-season starts up.  I aim to copy you guys and have a progress tracker... If I do a good job you are free to get the speed training from it.  Most of pre-season is short to long so it will be right up your alley. 

LBSS

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #2050 on: September 13, 2013, 09:56:27 am »
0
what happened to the progress tracker?

what happened to sets of 5 for squats? is three triples enough volume?

check it again, blu.

left hip is feeling wonky during squats and i need to do a better job autoregulating the singles. ego check, recommitment to mobility.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

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LBSS

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #2051 on: September 14, 2013, 07:14:57 pm »
0
WEIGHT: ???
SORENESS: none
ACHES/INJURIES: none
MENTAL STATE: good, well caffeinated

- warm up

- broad jump x 4

- DL bound x 4,4
above average, ~12.25-12.5 yards

- sprint 60m x 3
8.10, 8.00, 8.25

- sprint 30m fly x 2
3.8x, 3.69

- tempo w/walk back recovery (25y+50y+75y+100y) x 2
6:15 total

haven't stretched or done mob yet but will shortly. disappointed in these times. glutes felt it strongly.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

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LBSS

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #2052 on: September 16, 2013, 10:58:11 pm »
+1
WEIGHT: 175
SORENESS: none
ACHES/INJURIES: none
MENTAL STATE: good

- warm up

- depth jump @18-20" x 3,3

- jump squat 45 x 3,3

- squat 330 x 1,1,1,1; 295 x 5,5
good

- bench 175 x 10+3+2+3
bah

- BOR 145 x 10+3+3+3

- superset x a bunch
-- GHR variations x 1-5
-- pull up variations x 3
for GHRs did non-strict, strict, and holds; for pull ups did wide and close

- DB RDL 80s x 10,10

- TTB x 5,5,5,5

- stretch

pretty good workout
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

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Raptor

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #2053 on: September 17, 2013, 05:56:19 am »
0
Looks really good... it's kind of a conjugate periodization model
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

LBSS

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #2054 on: September 18, 2013, 10:22:50 pm »
0
WEIGHT: ???
SORENESS: hamstrings, glutes
ACHES/INJURIES: head, mid-back a little after broad jumps
MENTAL STATE: meh

- warm up

- broad jump x 4
bad, just under 12y

- DL bound x 4,4,4
really bad, not enough lift at all, too horizontal

- SL bound x 6,6

- sprint 60m x 3
8.1, 8.2, 8.3; first one felt relatively fast, others slow

- sprint fly 30m x 2
3.8, 3.9; slow as balls, no explosiveness

- tempo 150m x 5

- stretch

fuck it.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter