Author Topic: a fast and explosive donkey!  (Read 1859658 times)

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LBSS

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1755 on: April 17, 2013, 02:05:21 pm »
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i should think you'd like them, you basically made them up! not planning to do these on the same day, goal would be on/on/off. one thing i might consider is two-a-days (track morning, gym evening, two days' rest or very light tempo-ish stuff), interested to hear your thoughts on that idea.

tempo will be 100s and 200s for repeats. low intensity (17-18s/100m, rest the remainder of the minute). volume is intentionally very low because all this stuff will be relatively new. even the few bounds and sprints i did on sunday were enough to give me decent soreness in my calves. volume and intensity will build as i get more proficient and work capacity improves.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

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Raptor

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1756 on: April 17, 2013, 02:22:50 pm »
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I like hearing "soreness in my calves" coming from LBSS. That also probably means Achilles tendon work.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

LBSS

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1757 on: April 17, 2013, 02:52:05 pm »
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I like hearing "soreness in my calves" coming from LBSS. That also probably means Achilles tendon work.

maybe, although the soreness is at the other end of my calves, just below the knee. make of that what you will.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

Raptor

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1758 on: April 17, 2013, 03:12:47 pm »
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Sounds like the calf to hamstring attachement. Still good.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

LBSS

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1759 on: April 18, 2013, 12:48:42 am »
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WEIGHT: 176.5
SORENESS: none
ACHES/INJURIES: stitches in left thumb, can't fully open and or extend thumb
MENTAL STATE: good, solid

- warm up

- SVJ x 10
all over 25, one well over 26. arm swing on that one was different, bigger amplitude, more fluid. tried to replicate it afterward but couldn't quite.

- leg press 415 x 5,5,5,5,5
whatever, rests were 2 mins or less, tried to explode the plates away from myself but it's a 45-degree inverted press and i didn't want to end up catching the platform on locked knees, so i shorted the reps.

- leg press calf raise 415 x 10,10
asymmetrical and i don't get the right firing patterns because of my toes. felt a lot in peroneals, not so much in gastroc.

- DB OHP 45s x 6,6

- pull up x 7,7,7,4,5
not enough rest before fourth set, lame.

- circuit x 3
-- ab pull down x 20
-- hyper x 10

- stretch

whatever, was just glad to be back in the gym. nothing with the bar until i get my stitches out.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

T0ddday

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1760 on: April 18, 2013, 09:10:49 am »
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i should think you'd like them, you basically made them up! not planning to do these on the same day, goal would be on/on/off. one thing i might consider is two-a-days (track morning, gym evening, two days' rest or very light tempo-ish stuff), interested to hear your thoughts on that idea.

tempo will be 100s and 200s for repeats. low intensity (17-18s/100m, rest the remainder of the minute). volume is intentionally very low because all this stuff will be relatively new. even the few bounds and sprints i did on sunday were enough to give me decent soreness in my calves. volume and intensity will build as i get more proficient and work capacity improves.

Two a days are great.  As written you can do the A and B workouts back to back provided the tempo isn't too rough in the A workout.   If your schedule allows morning and evening would be great as well.  Two-a-days are probably the best thing possible for body composition.  I have self dieted and trained to 5.8% bf but I never "felt" as lean and light as after fall training where we would be do drills, bound, sprint, hard tempot, stretch at 5AM-7AM, speed endurance/easy tempo at 3-4pm and then weight training at 430-6pm.   The lasted for three weeks at the start of fall quarter so it was a total of 21 days but still the most rapid transformation I have seen. 

17-18s might be a bit slow for 100m but it really just depends on you.  The intervals need to be sprints... time doesn't matter that much.  But if 18s means your are heel-rolling with a low-arm carriage like a miler... then the benefit of tempo is lost and you might as well mile.  For me that means my straights are always under 15sec but my 200m will stretch out to 30-32 seconds.

LBSS

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1761 on: April 18, 2013, 09:29:41 am »
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i definitely understood that the tempo needs to be genuine sprints. 17-18s was my memory of the last time i did them, which was a while ago, but it might have been more like 16s. could just be faulty memory. EDIT: went back and looked and should have written 16-17s, which is what i was doing before. i've never really been timed at a full sprint over any distance, even hand timed, but you will be unsurprised to hear that i'm pretty slow. trying to get some hand times soon so i have something to work off of.

on the two-a-days, what was the rest schedule? e.g., on/on/off, on/off/on/off, etc.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 09:31:29 am by LBSS »
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

Raptor

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1762 on: April 18, 2013, 09:38:27 am »
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i should think you'd like them, you basically made them up! not planning to do these on the same day, goal would be on/on/off. one thing i might consider is two-a-days (track morning, gym evening, two days' rest or very light tempo-ish stuff), interested to hear your thoughts on that idea.

tempo will be 100s and 200s for repeats. low intensity (17-18s/100m, rest the remainder of the minute). volume is intentionally very low because all this stuff will be relatively new. even the few bounds and sprints i did on sunday were enough to give me decent soreness in my calves. volume and intensity will build as i get more proficient and work capacity improves.

I might be doing this same layout pretty soon.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

Raptor

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1763 on: April 18, 2013, 09:41:52 am »
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By the way - by "two a days" you mean morning workout + evening workout in the same day, and then two days of rest?

Because reading through it was pretty ambiguous (for example you say on/on/off, that would mean 2 consecutive days doing morning and evening workouts, so basically 4 workouts in 2 days and then one day off)
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

vag

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1764 on: April 18, 2013, 12:24:39 pm »
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17-18s might be a bit slow for 100m but it really just depends on you.  The intervals need to be sprints... time doesn't matter that much.  But if 18s means your are heel-rolling with a low-arm carriage like a miler... then the benefit of tempo is lost and you might as well mile.  For me that means my straights are always under 15sec but my 200m will stretch out to 30-32 seconds.

Oops, that's very interesting. So buffered ( or too much buffered ) tempo runs have no benefit over steady pace longer distance running?
Let me make this more detailed:
I alternate workouts between 3sets*5*80m tempo runs and 3km steady pace jogging ( pace around 9km/h ). My tempo runs , i prefer not to go max because of the too much stress they cause on me, so i do them buffered. What i feel and consider like 50% is about 20 seconds for 80m , while what feels like in between 50% and max would be about 15 seconds. Those are rough approximations, self-hand-timed measurements. Also runs are not done on track, but outdoors, on a dust/gravel football field actually.
So my tempo runs pace is around there, 20 to 15 seconds for 80m which i consider 50% to 70% intensity correspondingly.
Am i going too slow? Is there a magic number for the buffer to get the benefits out of your tempo runs ( e.g. 70% )? Should i test my max effor times and set my buffered times based on that?
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 12:27:03 pm by vag »
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

LBSS

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1765 on: April 20, 2013, 03:55:36 pm »
0
WEIGHT: ???
SORENESS: none
ACHES/INJURIES: left wrist but only during pushups
MENTAL STATE: well rested, excited, vaguely self-loathing

- warm up
included two sets each of A skips, B skips, and fast feet

- consecutive DL broad jump x 4

- DL bound x 4,4,4
never got closer than ~18" to my 4 broad jump distance

- SLRVJ x 6
hideous, especially off of left foot. nothing to reach for on the track, might turn these into 1-2-jump-1-2-jump type sets.

- ME sprint 60m x 3
i'm slow. no idea what my times were.

- tempo sprint x 100+100+100+100++100+100
i'm also out of shape. times were 15-16s although one direction was into a steady headwind so the last couple sets of that one were more like 17s.

- circuit x 2
-- push up x 15,7 (left wrist hurts)
-- inverted row x 10
-- prone toe touch x 20

- stretch

i'm very slow and all this business is new. but it feels like the right thing to be doing, in the absence of at-will bball court access, and i'm sure my newbie gains will sustain me for a while. gonna try to get some times and some video soon.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

Raptor

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1766 on: April 20, 2013, 04:18:13 pm »
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It sounds to me more and more like your worst leg muscle is the hamstring.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

AGC

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1767 on: April 20, 2013, 11:07:08 pm »
+1
It sounds to me more and more like your worst leg muscle is the hamstring.

^^ Sprinting will be a great way to get your hamstring strength up. In fact, I was kind of glad to hear that you're not so good at sprints currently, gives you a lot of room to improve. I'm going to predict that by improving your 60m/100m times over the next few months will help both your SVJ and RVJ considerably. Interesting to see how it goes.

T0ddday

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1768 on: April 22, 2013, 09:05:06 am »
+1
17-18s might be a bit slow for 100m but it really just depends on you.  The intervals need to be sprints... time doesn't matter that much.  But if 18s means your are heel-rolling with a low-arm carriage like a miler... then the benefit of tempo is lost and you might as well mile.  For me that means my straights are always under 15sec but my 200m will stretch out to 30-32 seconds.

Oops, that's very interesting. So buffered ( or too much buffered ) tempo runs have no benefit over steady pace longer distance running?
Let me make this more detailed:
I alternate workouts between 3sets*5*80m tempo runs and 3km steady pace jogging ( pace around 9km/h ). My tempo runs , i prefer not to go max because of the too much stress they cause on me, so i do them buffered. What i feel and consider like 50% is about 20 seconds for 80m , while what feels like in between 50% and max would be about 15 seconds. Those are rough approximations, self-hand-timed measurements. Also runs are not done on track, but outdoors, on a dust/gravel football field actually.
So my tempo runs pace is around there, 20 to 15 seconds for 80m which i consider 50% to 70% intensity correspondingly.
Am i going too slow? Is there a magic number for the buffer to get the benefits out of your tempo runs ( e.g. 70% )? Should i test my max effor times and set my buffered times based on that?

I would say for most people 20 seconds for 80m is REALLY slow.   I also wouldn't do 80m tempo runs though.   There isn't a magic number but rather just different benefits of submaximal sprinting and depending on the pace you choose you will get/lose benefits.  People usually refer intensive tempo as runs closer to 90% (benefit is to build special endurance) and extensive tempo as closer to 75%.     Extensive tempo is what I usually mean when I say tempo-running.  Basically here are the benefits of tempo. 

1) System work   - satisfied probably no matter what intensity
2) Sprint mechanics -  You essentially are not really "sprinting" if you run too slow so pace needs to be decent to get meaningful mechanical work in.
3) Recovery -  Again too slow and you are not hitting the range of motion you do when sprinting, but too fast and you are not recovering.  Too slow is like using calf raises to deload from squatting... too fast is like using 90% of your 1RM to deload. 
4) Special Endurance  - Gotta move pretty fast to get this benefit.  However, it's usually gotten as a sacrifice to recovery... Can't have it all.

One additional thing I would like to say for those using tempo runs is do more than 100m.  I talked to Charlie Francis about this once and he had most people always do something with more than 100m unless recovery was REALLY short.  Reason being is that we use time as a proxy for intensity.   If you watch the olympics you see that Usain Bolt can make 10.1 look like he is jogging.   While nobody is as fast as bolt you can do surprisingly similar with over 90% of your 100m speed.  I can run high 11 with a complete shutdown.   The trick is to drive out really hard and then completely relax.  If I take a bit off of it I can expend very little energy and still run around 14 seconds which is technically 75% of my best 100m.    However, this is cheating.  It's not really a  75% intensity run, it's more like a 95% 50m run coupled with a 40% intensity deceleration.  NOT the point of tempo running.  The point is the entire run should be very submaximal but not shut down.   That's why I recommend you have a curve in your runs.  200m are good because even a beginner will usually have enough fitness for this distance.  In the 200m you have to work the curve so going 75% of your max 200m speed will usually be 75% intensity.   Good luck. 

LBSS

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1769 on: April 22, 2013, 09:29:35 am »
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good advices, T0ddday. i know you were talking to vag, but a couple of things: i did the tempo runs barefoot on the grass field in the middle of the track and will probably continue to do so when possible. i like doing them that way for the foot/ankle benefits, for the help it gives with proper alignment and mechanics, and because it simply feels good. precludes using a curve, though, so unless i do an out-and-back or like a figure 8 or something i'm sticking to the straights for now. i'm also quite out of shape, as i mentioned, so 100m is a good distance to start with. using 12s as my 100m time (having never actually been timed in one, i hope and pray i could at least run that fast), 15-16s is 75-80% intensity.

as my conditioning improves i'll up the volume for a while first and then consider upping intensity. for the time being i'm just trying to hit the first three bullet points.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter