Author Topic: a fast and explosive donkey!  (Read 1858515 times)

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D4

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1455 on: October 11, 2012, 04:01:16 am »
+1
LBSS, what's your current SVJ, and SVJ PR? 

Curious to know, since your max squat is basically at the 2xBW mark

all-time PR on a jump mat (in socks) was 28" but that was just once. my gym's jump mat grew legs after that so i haven't had a comparable test in two years. chalking my hand and jumping to touch the padding on the backboard put me at like 26".

this is what i mean by lack of explosiveness. to be fair, though, i basically never practice SVJ. i'd improve after a month of just doing it regularly, i think.

According to vertical jump calculator (not saying it' accurate), you should be ~33".  Are you going to work on explosive strength?  Or you think it'll just come down to practicing it only


Also, I'm just like you with what you said about your CNS.  I seriously can't understand how everyone else on here can go out and have multiple jump sessions a week.  Unless I get lucky, I always feel like I'm doing my jump sessions for no reason.  Just jump after jump of forced effort resulting in low vertical heights. 

I get lucky like maybe 1-2x a month where I'm playing competitive ball, and my body is recovered and I'm just feeling it.  Over the years, have you found different strategies or whatever on helping with this issue?  The only part of my training I'm not being consistent with is jump sessions.  They always feel so forced, shitty, energy draining.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2012, 04:26:29 am by D4 »
Goal is to dunk.

Vertical needed to dunk: 40"

Current vertical : 38.5"

Raptor

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1456 on: October 11, 2012, 04:53:42 am »
+1
Yeah you could switch to an explosive regime for a month or so and then get back to squatting heavy again.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

vag

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1457 on: October 11, 2012, 06:48:17 am »
+1
^IMHO an explosive setup seems ideal according to his data , but he has done it a few times and it failed. That's why i say i don't get it. He SHOULD be jumping higher.
Quad dominance is my last card trying to explain his strength/jump disanalogy. But that's just my guess/estimation, i can't back it up except from the total pchain work absence in his templates.
As for SVJs , i am absolutely sure that if he practiced them he would be at 30'' in no time.
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

Raptor

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1458 on: October 11, 2012, 07:19:03 am »
0
Here's an idea:

Two explosive workouts per week:

Workout A:

Depth jump 3x5 from medium box
Jump squat with reset after each rep: 3x5 with 30% of your 1RM
ALTERNATED with
1/4 rhythmic jump squat: 3x10 with an empty barbell
Squat 6x1 with 90%

Workout B:

DJ 3x5 from high box
1-2 jump squats 3x5 with 30% 1RM
Explosive squat 6x2 with 60% 1RM

There ya go. Try that for a month or so and see what happens.

EDIT: Oh, and one more thing: when you go to jump and jump a few times and think "this sucks, I'm giving up - don't. Continue to GO GET IT". There's been a handful of times I saw you write that and DO that which makes me think you're missing a ton of possible jump practice because you just don't like how you move and just quit and go strength train again and get worse and worse plyometrically.

You have to ask yourself "what's wrong with my jump as far as movement goes". It could be that you're so quad dominant or something, but honestly you don't look bad (in fact you look much better than me) off two feet. Very quick and snappy. It could actually help if you would "load" more in the plant and benefit from your strenght more instead of bouncing so quick off the ground like you do now. I don't know.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2012, 07:24:25 am by Raptor »
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

LBSS

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1459 on: October 11, 2012, 01:43:16 pm »
-3
hurray, upvoting is back. upvotes for everyone!

@D4: the only thing that seems to help is to do something competitive beforehand. playing knockout is perfect because it doesn't have to be long enough to tire me out, can just play to 5 or 7 or whatever and it gets the juices flowing. but i rarely have a partner.

@vag: i'm not sure i've ever done a real explosive setup. the plan adarq laid out is more explosive than what i've been doing for the past 9 months or so

@raptor: thanks, i appreciate the advice. i do think i'm quite quad dominant. going to start adding in more p-chain work to try to shift that balance a bit. the workouts you suggested are pretty close to adarq's template, so i'm going to go with his for now, but those do look good. i'll sub in depth jumps when the court isn't open.
October 11, 2012, 01:43:16 pm - Hidden. Show this post.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

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LBSS

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1460 on: October 11, 2012, 01:50:01 pm »
0
last night:

BW: ???
SORENESS: none
ACHES/INJURIES: none
FATIGUE: low to medium

- warm up
included sprints and glute activation

- SLRVJ x 8-10
i'm still terrible at these although i did put together a couple of PR-ish jumps. probably around 27" off the right leg and 26" off the left.

- MR double leg bounds 5 x 5
best were second and third sets, got about a yard past half court, so about 44-45 feet, i think. that's pretty good, actually. need to remeasure the court to make sure i'm not fooling myself.

- squat: 305 x 3,3,3 | 275 x 8,8,8

- push press 115 x 5,5,5

- pull up x 5,5,5

- BSS 100 x 3e,3e,3e

- C1: calf raise x 20
- C1: glute bridge 45 x 10 (back elevated on bench at top of movement)
- C1: ab pull down x 30
- C1 info: 3 rounds, minimal rest

- STRETCH
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

vag

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1461 on: October 11, 2012, 04:11:30 pm »
0
Either post voting is fucked up or i will never guess who negged your above posts and why...

As for explosive, i remember i talked you into doing explosive box squats some months ago , initially you had some PRish jump sessions but then you stalled.
You didn't stick with them for a long time to make conclusions anyway , it must have been when steven-miller convinced you to go SS/bulk style.
FWIW I like adarq's program a lot, it covers everything. Rapror's program would be very interesting to follow too if you feel like experimenting, a purely explosive block right after bulking and building limit strength should work damn well.
Also i totally agree a with raptor's point of view about short jump sessions, i try to always get 25-30 quality jumps. Usually i go with 2 sets of 3-4 SVJs , another 3-4 dropsteps and then sets of 3-4 DLRVJs. You never know when the good jumps gonna kick in, sometimes they appear in the beginning  , sometimes in the end.
But yeah, adarq's program is a keeper , you can go with it forever, good luck with it!
Just some thoughts material...
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

LBSS

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1462 on: October 11, 2012, 05:26:27 pm »
0
huh, weird. 3 people negged the upvoting post? who are you people?

unless it's you, vag, trying to diminish my rep power and therefore my dominion over all forum members except lance and adarq. you sly fox, you.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

LBSS

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1463 on: October 11, 2012, 09:41:40 pm »
0
BW: ???
SORENESS: edit: tib anterior
ACHES/INJURIES: something wonky in my right anterior hip but only in a very limited ROM, not worried about it
FATIGUE: low to medium

- C1: jump rope x a bit
- C1: stretching/mobility x a bit
- C1 info: switch back and forth, worked on some JR moves.

- C2: 45 pound plate push half court up-and-back
- C2: 3x as many pushups as plate pushes
- C2 info: partner workout because one of the crossfit guys that i actually like a lot needed a partner. 5,4,3,2,1 trips per round, rest was whatever you could get after you finished your plate pushes and pushups and the other guy was doing his plate pushes. no idea how long we took. wasn't especially hard although i was slower at the end than the beginning and my legs were all jacked up afterward. i'm out of shape for that kind of thing but was just planning to jump rope/mob/stretch today anyway so i figured why not. crossfit didn't invent workouts like that.  :P

- more mob, glute activation, and stretching
« Last Edit: October 12, 2012, 09:25:34 am by LBSS »
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

LBSS

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1464 on: October 13, 2012, 05:31:47 pm »
0
BW: ???
SORENESS: edit: tib anterior but very light
ACHES/INJURIES: something wonky in my right anterior hip but only in a very limited ROM, not worried about it
FATIGUE: low

- warmup

- 10 yard dashes to fire up: 10 yards x 5

- low volume max effort jumps after warmup (~5-7 x 2) - if feel very stale, 1-step lead ins
court in use, subbed

- depth jump @18" x 4,4,4
not bad, there's nothing to reach for in the gym but most were easily 25+

- ME MR halftuck: 5 x 5
weak and slow

- ME MR pogo: 3 x 5
last set best

- C1: MSEM squat: 4 x 320
- C1: JUMP SQUAT: 2 x 3 x 95
- C1-info: two rounds

- S1: dips x 15,15,10,10
- S1: inverted rows x 15,15,10,10
- S1 info: minimal rest between exercises

- S2: ab pull down x 30
- S2: glute bridge x 15
- S2 info: 3 rounds

- STRETCH
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

adarqui

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1465 on: October 13, 2012, 05:35:37 pm »
0
nice on the msem squats, how explosive were the 320's ?

also, you found out any info on a new gym yet?

pC!

LBSS

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1466 on: October 13, 2012, 05:40:36 pm »
0
nice on the msem squats, how explosive were the 320's ?

also, you found out any info on a new gym yet?

pC!

they felt slower and heavier than i feel like they should have, but not slow enough to be grindy at all. more like i just couldn't maintain form, concentration was off somehow. suffice it to say i won't add weight next time and will hopefully be in a better state of mind.

as far as new gym, i'm leaning toward the really expensive place because i think it's got the best chance of court availability. will try to get on a month-to-month setup there so i can leave if i hate it. either way i'm holding out at my gym as long as possible.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

ahotzo

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1467 on: October 13, 2012, 06:34:40 pm »
0
Really like the routines adarq & raptor made for you.  I'm going to watch your journal closely; when I feel like my squat strength has come along enough, I definitely will try something more explosive like this.  I hope they work out for you.  Good luck.

LBSS

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1468 on: October 16, 2012, 03:57:34 pm »
0
i was at work until 12:15 last night (this morning), so did not get to the gym. spent the whole day, from 9 AM - 12:15AM, working on a proposal. spent hours on it over the weekend, as well. on the plus side, i'll get a comp day out of it. session 3 tonight.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

LBSS

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1469 on: October 16, 2012, 08:47:16 pm »
0
SORENESS: edit: tib anterior but very light
ACHES/INJURIES: left anterior hip, squatting elbow on left side is BACK but not as bad as last year
FATIGUE: high

- warm up

- DLRVJ x 5,5
horrendous, the worst in a long time.

- ME MR half tuck 5 x 5
barefoot, slow

- ME pogo 3 x 5

- C1: MSEM squat 8 x 290
- C1: 2 x 3 x 90
- C1 info: 2 rounds, squats were excellent.

- S1: dip x 15,15,10,10
- S1: inverted row x 15,15,10,10
- S1 info: add reps to first set next time

- S2: calf raise x 20
- S2: GHR sit up x 10
- S2: glute bridge x 15
- S2 info: 3 rounds, minimal rest

- foam roll ITB and hip flexors

- stretch

hip flexors were very tight, had trouble getting glutes activated during warm up or on bridges. the 15 hours i spent at my desk yesterday didn't help, i'm sure. i've been starting to move around more during the day but completely fell off yesterday. it was a really stressful day and i didn't sleep enough afterward. that probably affected my jumps.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter