Author Topic: a fast and explosive donkey!  (Read 1860884 times)

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entropy

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1440 on: October 09, 2012, 12:30:34 pm »
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Wondering what you think about staying the course and following Kingfisher's advice of chasing 4 plates?
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

LBSS

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1441 on: October 09, 2012, 01:07:04 pm »
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Wondering what you think about staying the course and following Kingfisher's advice of chasing 4 plates?

see previous posts:

Quote from: me
problem is, my gym closes for good in a bit more than a month and after that i will need to adjust to a new gym, new court, new rims, probably new workout times, etc. i'm thinking that i might abandon the bulking+volume plan for the next month and focus instead on speed and stim methods -- more sprinting, more jumping, lower volume on squats. the last few weeks' worth of DLRVJ's have felt slow, for whatever combination of reasons. i need to take advantage of my gym's uniqueness while it's around. i can squat 3x8 anywhere.

so maybe it's time for the acole block, or some variation thereof.

Quote from: vag
I was thinking of your case earlier today. I still don't get it. 2*BW squat, low bf%, very often jumping , stretching and all, WTF!!! I know you think you dont have good jumping genes and i accept that, but at least your SVJ should be above 30 and then dropstep/RVJ a couples inches higher. 35'' SVJ / 37'' RVJ would be very realistic for your qualities.
SO , i'm gonna go raptor-style (  :uhhhfacepalm: ) because i can't explain your phenomenon othrwise:
Maybe you are too quad dominant and that restricts you from expressing your strength on the court? I don't rememver you doing much assistance stuff so you may have tried it already, if not maybe you should consider shifting to low-volume-high-intensity squat for maintenance and push a bit more on pchain work such as BSS / RDLs / GHRs, see what happens.

Quote from: me
yeah vag, i think you're right (raptor, too). at the very least i know i need to be doing more glute activation work. ok.

in other words, i'll come back to shooting for 4 plates. for the time being, i've been doing general strength for months and i need to switch things up before my gym closes. had been meaning to post about that anyway but vag/raptor galvanized me to do it now.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

Raptor

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1442 on: October 09, 2012, 04:43:45 pm »
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Take a look at the program I made for Nightfly in his log, you don't need to read through all that post (although it might be interesting), look at the program at the end. You should be focusing on the glutes more if you really think you need it.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

Flander

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1443 on: October 09, 2012, 04:57:39 pm »
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I like that one of the first posts I see in your log says fuck cross fitters. Lol. I see why you dislike them. Its the same way I hate soccer players.

Raptor

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1444 on: October 09, 2012, 05:02:46 pm »
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Why do you hate soccer players?
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

AGC

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1445 on: October 09, 2012, 06:28:06 pm »
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mmmmmmkay so here goes. based on earlier with some modifications to keep exercises in order from faster-->slower. my only doubt is about the speed-ish day being right after the heavy legs day. but that's more or less how acole had it set up. thoughts?

Quote
DAY 1: Gym - heavy legs (mainly quads, glutes)
- DLRVJ x5-15 depending on feeling
- Squats 3x3 @85% OR 2x3 MSEM @ 90-95%
- BSS 3x8
- Hip thrust 3x10
- Calf raise 3x20
- Core, UB superset/circuit as I've been doing them

DAY 2: Speed-ish
- ME sprints 3-6x30-50m (OR 6-10x10-15m if done indoors)
- DL bounds 3x8
- LL/RR bounds very submax 5x8-10
- low-volume interval sprints (OR jump rope if done indoors)

DAY 3: Rest OR optional Cardio
- light jump rope/foam roll/stretch
OR
- medium-volume interval sprints/foam roll/stretch

DAY 4: Gym (explosive exercises/hamstrings)
- DLRVJ x5-15 depending on feeling
- Depth jumps 3-4x4-6
- Jump squats 2x3 @ 20-30%
- squat MSEM 1 x 6 @ 80-85%, strong focus on speed
- RDL/GHR 3x8 (start really light, this is going to murder me at first)
- Core, UB superset/circuit as I've been doing them

DAY 5: Jumps
- 6+ of each jump (DLRVJ, SLRVJ, SVJ)

DAY 6: Rest OR optional Cardio
- light jump rope/foam roll/stretch
OR
- medium-volume interval sprints/foam roll/stretch

DAY 7: Jumps
- 6+ of each jump (more effort than Fri)

Yeah, I mean, the way I was doing it wasn't perfect by any means. Maybe next time when my strength base has built up more I will change it around to a more optimal setup. You probably could switch the speed-heavy legs Mon Tues around as you say. The only real reason I put it that way was that I had basketball on Tuesday nights, and rather than be fatigued from heavy weights a few hours before, I thought it might be better to have a night's recovery from weights, then do the light speed stuff the next morning before work, eat relatively big after and be prepped for ball later that night.

I also kind of liked the alternating jumps-weight-jumps/speed (Sun-Mon-Tues) aspect; I don't know why. Just felt like a intense, varied series of exercises, all of which got my brain/CNS screaming at my body (in lots of different voices): YOU MUST JUMP HIGHER! Again, no real training theory behind it (at least, not that I've read before, maybe I did a few good things by accident but it was more experimental than anything).

For the structure I basically just listed all my weakness and the exercises I needed to improve them, then tried to sort them into sessions, and fitted the sessions around my working week and court availability as best as I could. You could probably do the same, keep the exercises you listed but just fiddle around with the exact timings and rest periods.

The key for me I think was just devoting two days to just jumps practice, and putting them one after another. I was always buzzing for the second session because the previous sessions was fresh in my mind, and I could more actively reinforce the technique cues I was working on.

LBSS

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1446 on: October 09, 2012, 06:31:51 pm »
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^^^ OUTSTANDING POST IS OUTSTANDING. reconsideration will occur. good day to you.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

LBSS

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1447 on: October 09, 2012, 06:43:17 pm »
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strengths:

1. strength. i am pretty strong in the weight room. not very strong, but pretty strong. comfortably at 2xbw squat.
2. technique. i've practiced jumping a lot and am pretty comfortable with my approach and plant in DLRVJ. this is evidenced by the large gap between my SVJ and my DLRVJ. SLRVJ technique has been improving from submaximal jumps during layup practice.
3. doggedness. i've been at this a long time and show no signs of giving up.

weaknesses:

1. speed. i am relatively slow.
2. explosiveness. i am very unexplosive. SVJ is terrible relative to my squat.
3. CNS-recruitment-ability. what i mean is that i more often than not can't really get myself hyped enough for even near-maximal performance. it helps to do something competitive before i work out but barring that i'm at the mercy of my own inscrutable CNS cycles. by this i don't mean i think i should be PR'ing every time i'm in the gym, but there are days when i "feel" fast and springy and light and strong and days when i don't. the latter are more common than the former. i'd like to reverse that, if possible.
4. fitness. i'm fitter than the average joe but less fit than i've been in the past. this comes from focusing exclusively on jumping and weights. heavy 8-rep squats drove this home for me last week -- i cut off my last set of 290x8 because i couldn't valsalva enough to keep a tight core. breathing was wrong.

more to follow.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

Flander

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1448 on: October 10, 2012, 02:31:42 am »
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Why do you hate soccer players?

We share our stadium with the local soccer club. We win 10+ national titles a year. Sonetimes even an international one. Were in the best league of the country.

The soccer team is in the second best league and has won nothing. They only play at the stadium once every two weeks.

Still they decide everything and act as though theyre the best athletes imaginable. When they play were not allowed near the stadium. They can change and decide everything on the stadium, despite the fact that were there every day and heyre here once per teo weeks.

Its all because soccer is our national sport. 90% of all danes has played soccer within the last 5 years. So its the biggest sport. T&f is one of the smallest.

But seriously. Ive seen their test results. They have a keeper with a 30cm svj. And hes as cocky as anyone on that team. Generally their test results are horrible.

So I hate them. Not all of them. But all those acting like theyre the greatest athletes and people the world has ever seen.

Sorry for highjack.

D4

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1449 on: October 10, 2012, 03:02:43 am »
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LBSS, what's your current SVJ, and SVJ PR? 

Curious to know, since your max squat is basically at the 2xBW mark
Goal is to dunk.

Vertical needed to dunk: 40"

Current vertical : 38.5"

LBSS

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1450 on: October 10, 2012, 09:05:58 am »
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Why do you hate soccer players?

We share our stadium with the local soccer club. We win 10+ national titles a year. Sonetimes even an international one. Were in the best league of the country.

The soccer team is in the second best league and has won nothing. They only play at the stadium once every two weeks.

Still they decide everything and act as though theyre the best athletes imaginable. When they play were not allowed near the stadium. They can change and decide everything on the stadium, despite the fact that were there every day and heyre here once per teo weeks.

Its all because soccer is our national sport. 90% of all danes has played soccer within the last 5 years. So its the biggest sport. T&f is one of the smallest.

But seriously. Ive seen their test results. They have a keeper with a 30cm svj. And hes as cocky as anyone on that team. Generally their test results are horrible.

So I hate them. Not all of them. But all those acting like theyre the greatest athletes and people the world has ever seen.

Sorry for highjack.

sounds awfully familiar. fuck 'em!
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

LBSS

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1451 on: October 10, 2012, 09:08:42 am »
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LBSS, what's your current SVJ, and SVJ PR? 

Curious to know, since your max squat is basically at the 2xBW mark

all-time PR on a jump mat (in socks) was 28" but that was just once. my gym's jump mat grew legs after that so i haven't had a comparable test in two years. chalking my hand and jumping to touch the padding on the backboard put me at like 26".

this is what i mean by lack of explosiveness. to be fair, though, i basically never practice SVJ. i'd improve after a month of just doing it regularly, i think.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

LBSS

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1452 on: October 10, 2012, 09:13:13 am »
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last night:

my post to pelham inspired me to do a card deck workout. went with (half) squats, push-ups with hands on the seat of the couch, quick feet, and those crunches where you pull your knees and head to the middle at the same time. idea was not to challenge myself, just to build up a light sweat and get HR moving a little. took 15 minutes, then did did some glute bridges, clams, and paused BSS for glute activation. then stretched for 15 minutes.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

LBSS

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1453 on: October 10, 2012, 10:48:23 am »
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i think too much. so, after all that wanking about my modification of acole14's template, i'm going to go back to the program adarq wrote out for me last year. i made good gains on it. probably my best gains ever. then, once gym closes and i am adrift, i'll get back into trying to pack pounds on the bar and myself. i've spent nearly 10 months mostly spinning my wheels on that part but i know what it takes now to get to where i want to be. reading joel smith's article the other day reminded me that i'm not in this to squat big. i'm in it to jump high. i've got three more inches to go to be able to put the ball in off a lob. let's roll.

of course, this template still allows me to start with high-volume squatting. gotta wean myself off a bit, i guess.  :P

session 1:
- warmup
- low volume max effort jumps after warmup (~5-7 x 2)
- MR double leg bounds: 5 x 5
- SQUAT: 3 x 3, 3 x 8 (no long pauses between reps, try to get the reps done non stop, last rep should be hard)
- UPPER
- UNILATERAL: 3 x 3e
- CORE (abs + glute bridges/RDLs/GHR)
- STRETCH


session 2:
- warmup
- 10 yard dashes to fire up: 10 yards x 5
- low volume max effort jumps after warmup (~5-7 x 2) - if feel very stale, 1-step lead ins
- ME MR halftuck: 5 x 5
- ME MR pogo: 3 x 5
- C1: MSEM squat: 1 x 4 (90-95%), 30s or more between singles, bar speed from onset of transition to lockout is essential
- C1: JUMP SQUAT: 2 x 3 (30%)
- C1-info: if it makes it easier, to db jump squats, jump squats come nearly immediately after a set of MSEM.. so: MSEM, jump squat, rest 2min, jump squat, rest 3min, repeat..... 2 rotations
- S1: dips @ 50 total
- S1: inverted rows @ 50 total
- CORE (abs + glute bridges/RDLs/GHR)
- STRETCH


session 3:
- warmup
- 10 yard dashes to fire up: 10 yards x 5
- low volume max effort jumps after warmup (~5-7 x 2)
- ME MR tuck: 5 x 5
- ME MR pogo: 3 x 5
- C1: MSEM squat: 1 x 8 (80-85%), 15-30s between singles, bar speed from onset of transition to lockout is essential
- C1: JUMP SQUAT: 2 x 3 (30%)
- C1-info: if it makes it easier, to db jump squats, jump squats come nearly immediately after a set of MSEM.. so: MSEM, jump squat, rest 2min, jump squat, rest 3min, repeat..... 2 rotations
- S1: dips @ 50 total
- S1: inverted rows @ 50 total
- CORE (abs + glute bridges/RDLs/GHR)
- STRETCH


session 4:
- warmup
- 10 yard dashes to fire up: 10 yards x 5
- low volume max effort jumps after warmup (~5-7 x 2) (replaced by depth jumps if court is unavailable)
- ME MR double leg bounds: 5 x 5
- ME MR tuck: 5 x 5
- ME MR pogo: 5 x 5
- STRETCH


basically:

Day 1: session 1 volume strength
Day 2: recovery
Day 3: recovery
Day 4: session 2 power
Day 5: recovery
Day 6: session 3 power
Day 7: recovery
Day 8: reactive "deload", still max intensity but no lifting
Day 9: recovery and or session 1
« Last Edit: October 10, 2012, 12:21:53 pm by LBSS »
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

Flander

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Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« Reply #1454 on: October 10, 2012, 02:22:35 pm »
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Why do you hate soccer players?

We share our stadium with the local soccer club. We win 10+ national titles a year. Sonetimes even an international one. Were in the best league of the country.

The soccer team is in the second best league and has won nothing. They only play at the stadium once every two weeks.

Still they decide everything and act as though theyre the best athletes imaginable. When they play were not allowed near the stadium. They can change and decide everything on the stadium, despite the fact that were there every day and heyre here once per teo weeks.

Its all because soccer is our national sport. 90% of all danes has played soccer within the last 5 years. So its the biggest sport. T&f is one of the smallest.

But seriously. Ive seen their test results. They have a keeper with a 30cm svj. And hes as cocky as anyone on that team. Generally their test results are horrible.

So I hate them. Not all of them. But all those acting like theyre the greatest athletes and people the world has ever seen.

Sorry for highjack.

sounds awfully familiar. fuck 'em!

Agreed.