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Quote from: Eric on December 21, 2015, 06:46:56 pm

  I think more people would benefit from going out, getting shit faced and doing stupid things when we are focused on some sort of fitness goal that we take seriously. 

Lol.  This must be a joke?  Is your reasoning that doing stupid things will get you to end up in jail where you will have more time to train?

The fact is alcohol is metabolically terrible.  Goal oriented athletes should use it sparingly.  There is a reason why michael jordan didnt drink alcohol until he was 30. 

At the very least athletes should avoid all beer and other mixed drinks and consume only limited amounts of wine and spirits.  If you do insist on drinking till the point of intoxication the absolute worst time to do it is when focused on a fitness goal.  Take a 5 day vacation to mexico.  Drink up on two of the first 3 days.  Cut back by 4 and dont drink at all the last day.

Where did the jail thing come from?  Are you drunk?  I've gone out drinking plenty of times and I've never been arrested, just go out, have fun, hit on a big chick by accident, deal with the hangover and move on.  This isn't anyones job from what I can see, it's a hobby and yes he wants to take it serious but preaching the dangers of alcohol when someone drinks once in a long while is just stupid to me.  MJ didn't drink til he was 30, thats great, anybody in this forum in the NBA? NFL? MLB? or do we do this shit to have an extra activity in our lives to better ourselves and get away from bs?  That is all, I am going to go back to watching Creed.

PS

Nice skwaats, form looks good and I'm jealous of your grip, you have kind of a Jesse Norris set up, only difference is he low bars but I couldnt tell if you were high bar or not.

Quote from: T0ddday on December 21, 2015, 09:13:03 pm

Quote from: Eric on December 21, 2015, 06:46:56 pm

  I think more people would benefit from going out, getting shit faced and doing stupid things when we are focused on some sort of fitness goal that we take seriously. 

Lol.  This must be a joke?  Is your reasoning that doing stupid things will get you to end up in jail where you will have more time to train?

The fact is alcohol is metabolically terrible.  Goal oriented athletes should use it sparingly.  There is a reason why michael jordan didnt drink alcohol until he was 30. 

At the very least athletes should avoid all beer and other mixed drinks and consume only limited amounts of wine and spirits.  If you do insist on drinking till the point of intoxication the absolute worst time to do it is when focused on a fitness goal.  Take a 5 day vacation to mexico.  Drink up on two of the first 3 days.  Cut back by 4 and dont drink at all the last day.

Where did the jail thing come from?  Are you drunk?  I've gone out drinking plenty of times and I've never been arrested, just go out, have fun, hit on a big chick by accident, deal with the hangover and move on.  This isn't anyones job from what I can see, it's a hobby and yes he wants to take it serious but preaching the dangers of alcohol when someone drinks once in a long while is just stupid to me.  MJ didn't drink til he was 30, thats great, anybody in this forum in the NBA? NFL? MLB? or do we do this shit to have an extra activity in our lives to better ourselves and get away from bs?  That is all, I am going to go back to watching Creed.

The jail thing was a joke!  It was in reference to your quote that "getting shitfaced and doing stupid things" is beneficial to trying to achieve a fitness goal! 

Im glad you are able to go out and get shitfaced and do stupid things without getting arrested.  Being white in america has its privileges.  But we cant all count on this, so maybe you shouldnt give advice to the forum that doesnt apply to everyone...  Some of us get arrested fo going out and not doing stupid things around others that are...

Quote

You are coming off as kind of preachy and admitting that you PR'd on trips to Vegas which included "not a lot of completely sober moments" is kind of shooting your own argument in the foot. Actually it's more like placing your argument 6 feet in front of a tank and just rolling straight over it. Again, referring to alcohol as poison is all relative but I suggest you're slightly overdoing it here. 

Why does admitting that I'm imperfect destroy my argument?  Haven't you ever the saying do as I say not as I do?  If a meth addict who had ruined his life told you not to use meth would his argument hold no water because he didnt follow his own advice?  Those that have made mistakes are often those best equipped to give advice about avoiding them!  Its not hypocritical to tell someone they shouldnt make mistakes that you have made! 

The argument that I was making is that its patently false that people training for a very difficult fitness goal (dunking w a 7'6 reach when you have little athletic background for LBSS) are somehow aiding their chances of accomplishing it by "going out and getting shitfaced and doing stupid stuff".   Alcohol negatively impacts your ability to achieve your goals.  Thats a fact.  There are other ways to blow off steam that dont involve it.  Im not telling you not to drink.  Im not telling you not to eat ad libitum for a month long vacation and carry 10 lbs of extra bodyfat. Im just making the point that when we do things that reduce our chances of achieving a goal we should own it if the personal choice is worth it --- but we shouldnt justify it with the claim that its a necessary or position addition to our training!

It wasn't the admitting you are imperfect. You admitted you PRd around days of alcohol use. LBSS PRd or equal PRd the day after drinking. Hmmmm interesting.

This is a stupid conversation anyway. I don't endorse alcohol when you're chasing large goals. I just thought you came off a bit over the top

haven't had anything to drink since saturday. but yeah one of my recent really good jumping days was after drinking a fair amount the night before. a month ago or so.

there does not appear to be much rhyme or reason to when i get hung over, with the caveat that obviously i have to have SOMETHING to drink. but there are nights when i have four drinks and am wrecked the next day, and nights when i have seven drinks (very rare now) and am totally fine.

I'm impressed that you can limit yourself to four drinks. As soon as I start drinking I end up drinking til I'm out cold. If I start drinking early in the day I'll usually end up having a dozen+ beers. Lately I've been drinking later and instead of buying a carton just buying a 6 pack. By the time I've finished the 6 pack I still want to drink more, but by that stage the bottle shops are closed.

Drinking does have negative effects, but I've read a lot of biographies of athletes from various sports and many (especially in Australia) will never give up drinking. Nathan Buckley (one of the best Australian Football players in modern times) said quitting drinking actually affected his performance negatively. The one season he gave up for 6 months it was his worst season ever, and as soon as he resumed drinking on the weekends his performances improved. Same as Peter Norman the fastest ever Australian over 200m. He became an alcoholic after retirement, but in his biography he mentioned getting pissed regularly in the weeks before his 20.06 200m at the 1968 Mexico Olympics. Him and John Carlos got pissed together 2 days before their meet a couple of years later in the US and Peter Norman ran a 100m PR in that race.

Obviously drinking is not beneficial, but I agree with Eric and Coges in the fact that none of us are professional athletes so there's nothing wrong with the weekly/occasional drinking session to unwind.

All good Todday. I agree we're of a similar opinion but just coming from slightly different angles.
It must be super frustrating to have clients lke that though.

http://propanefitness.com/iifym-alcohol-stay-alcobolic/

more geared towards body comp than performance but i try and go by this kind of strategy. 'alcobolic' lol.

I'll stop hijacking this journal with alcohol posts but this post made me think of one interesting point (I guess it's a counterpoint to my own as well). 
My original point (which is agreed with my the article) is that alcohol in and of itself is not a positive thing for an athlete...   However, there are a few cases where it's negativity can far greater or far less. 

1) First there is a huge genetic variation for how bad alcohol is on the body...  I think it's important to consider ones background when making the choice to drink or not...  If you have had your genome sequenced or are knowledgeable about your ancestry you can make a much more informed decision about alcohol.  I have african and european admixture in my background and for this reason probably don't tolerate alcohol as well as a Eastern European whose ancestors have been using alcohol for 5-10k years.   I would probably be especially bad at the beer mile when compared to someone whose ancestry (and practice) allows them to be less negatively affected by alcohol.     

2) The other big variable for alcohol is your body composition and goals.  If your trying to cut or stay maximally lean (and most sprinters or jumpers are) then alcohol is far worse than for someone moving up a weightclass as a lifter for example.   This is true about alcohol just as it is about all junk food.   Basically, if you are already trying to stay in negative calorie balance and restrict calories to some level (say 1500 kcal) then adding 3 beers and 600 calories to your daily diet means you now have only 900 calories to get adequate protein and fat - something that's going to be a lot more difficult now...

However, if your naturally really skinny and don't add fat mass easily and want to move up a weight-class...   This is far less a problem.  In fact I have had ONE experience where an athlete got worse when they gave up alcohol (that is ONE out of many) but it's still one example...   I was training a 6'6 185 pound eastern-european thrower/lifter who was trying to add strength and mass.  With the initial dietary advice of "eat a bit more" I got his powerclean to 235 and squat to 300 and bodyweight to 195 (I tend to not get overcomplicated with athletes and first get their initial neural strength gains up).   What's interesting is when logging diet I noticed that this guy would repeatedly drink 6+ beers (usually dark IPAs) at night time after work (finishing around 11pm and he would train at 8am).   They usually went along with some type of meal.   He stopped drinking (I advised it but he already thought it would be helpful) and his numbers in the gym plummeted...   It was really confusing but when I looked over his diet logs and sleep logs it started to make sense....  The change was as follows:

Basic Lifestyle with alcohol:

0) 7am: wake, caffeine.
1) 8am:  Train Weightlifting (post workout alcohol-free meal)
2) 10am-7pm: Work a stressful job (lunch break meal without alcohol, coffee break as well)
3) 8pm: Get home and medicate anxiety with 6+ beers and a large meal.
4) 11pm: sleep

After step 2 the athlete was probably at around 1500 calories.  His morning cafffiene use reduced his appetite.  Taking out the alcohol was a reduction of close to 1000 calories AND as he was someone who was pretty adrenergic without alcohol and used a lot of caffeine his evening appetite was smaller.  He also couldn't get to sleep as well.   So with alcohol we are talking about 3500+ calories and a non-ideal sleep and without we are talking about 2500 calories and even less sleep...  The difference was clear.   The fact that he used alcohol as a sedative anxiolytic probably doesn't bode well for his future ability to stay out of alcoholism but removing it in the short term had disastrous affects on his training...   

So, there you go! An athlete who got worse when alcohol was removed from his diet!  However, the exception rather than the rule!  For most of us less alcohol is probably a good thing!

Will be interesting to see another hypergravity experiment.  GOod luck!