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Author Topic: Would you guys recommend I deadlift instead of RDL?  (Read 15844 times)

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Raptor

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Re: Would you guys recommend I deadlift instead of RDL?
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2012, 03:46:49 pm »
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I don't know. When I get from full knee extension to about 25 degrees of flexion "something" moves on the lateral side of the knee, in that "hole" of the knee.
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Harvey

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Re: Would you guys recommend I deadlift instead of RDL?
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2012, 02:41:07 am »
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Quote from: Raptor on March 24, 2012, 03:46:49 pm
I don't know. When I get from full knee extension to about 25 degrees of flexion "something" moves on the lateral side of the knee, in that "hole" of the knee.

Probably just some loose cartilage in the knee. Common with jumping athletes. Shouldn't affect your jumping or squatting ability if you're warm.
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vag

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Re: Would you guys recommend I deadlift instead of RDL?
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2012, 05:38:53 am »
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Quote from: Dreyth on March 24, 2012, 10:18:28 am
Quote from: vag on March 24, 2012, 05:04:18 am
About setup , i use something different than you: i load the bar at the ground , make the 1st rep a regular deadlift and then carry on with the RDL reps , very easy and convenient.
Just my 2 cents.

Oh I see... do you count that first deadlift as part of the set? Meaning 1 deadlift plus 5 rdl's equal one set of 6?

I missed this, jsut saw it.
I don't count the deadlift rep BUT thats because my grip can't handle what my legs can so my RDLs are submax. 7x253 is the most ive done before my girly fingers give up, but the hams/glutes aren't really challenged. If i used straps and did a true 8RM set i would count the initial 'normal' deadlift rep too.
But that's irrelevant talk anyway, if i was to do 5-3-1 i would choose regular deadlifts over RDLs too.
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steven-miller

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Re: Would you guys recommend I deadlift instead of RDL?
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2012, 09:37:46 pm »
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Low-bar squats involve hamstrings more and I am all for them but I disagree about using them exclusively. You still need a pull in my opinion to really balance everything out as good as possible.

Other than that, deadlifts are great and I cannot think of a single reason why not to do them. RDLs have the advantage of a stretch-reflex in a potentially important ROM (of the hips) for the VJ, but I am not even sure if that has any positive effect on jumping. If you can deadlift and you want to do them, do them IMO.
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entropy

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Re: Would you guys recommend I deadlift instead of RDL?
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2012, 11:41:39 am »
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If you do RDLs do you find they give you a good lover back workout? Can you get a pump from RDLs? Also is the combination of full squats and RDLs well balanced?
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Dreyth

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Re: Would you guys recommend I deadlift instead of RDL?
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2012, 02:03:57 pm »
+1
if anyone cares i've switched over to the conventional deadlift. currently my bests are 330x7 and 340x6. I will be attempting 350x5 next week.

I also do back extensions twice a week. On one day, I do 3x8 with heavier weight, and on the other day, 4x15 with lighter weight.
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steven-miller

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Re: Would you guys recommend I deadlift instead of RDL?
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2012, 02:34:01 pm »
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Quote from: Dreyth on May 25, 2012, 02:03:57 pm
if anyone cares i've switched over to the conventional deadlift. currently my bests are 330x7 and 340x6. I will be attempting 350x5 next week.

I also do back extensions twice a week. On one day, I do 3x8 with heavier weight, and on the other day, 4x15 with lighter weight.

Great!

One question: Why do you decrease reps while increasing weight?
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Dreyth

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Re: Would you guys recommend I deadlift instead of RDL?
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2012, 02:48:22 pm »
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Quote from: steven-miller on May 25, 2012, 02:34:01 pm
Quote from: Dreyth on May 25, 2012, 02:03:57 pm
if anyone cares i've switched over to the conventional deadlift. currently my bests are 330x7 and 340x6. I will be attempting 350x5 next week.

I also do back extensions twice a week. On one day, I do 3x8 with heavier weight, and on the other day, 4x15 with lighter weight.

Great!

One question: Why do you decrease reps while increasing weight?

I'm doing 5/3/1. Each cycle is split up into 4 waves/weeks:

Wave 1 - 85% x 5 or more reps
Wave 2 - 90% x 3 or more reps
Wave 3 - 95% x 1 or more reps
Wave 4 - 85% x 3 (just a de-load)

For the next cycle, increase your 1RM by 10lbs on squat or dead, and 5lbs on press or bench.

The idea is to work around the same estimated max at different rep ranges, and then move up to higher weight after the cycle.

So If I do 330x5, 350x3, 360x1 this cycle,
I'll go for 340x5, 360x3, 370x1 next cycle.

So far it's been working nicely for my deadlift. I'm almost always able to hit more than the minimum number of reps. I don't have to, but I can if I want to.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 02:55:30 pm by Dreyth »
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T0ddday

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Re: Would you guys recommend I deadlift instead of RDL?
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2012, 05:38:41 pm »
+1
Quote from: Dreyth on May 25, 2012, 02:03:57 pm
if anyone cares i've switched over to the conventional deadlift. currently my bests are 330x7 and 340x6. I will be attempting 350x5 next week.

I also do back extensions twice a week. On one day, I do 3x8 with heavier weight, and on the other day, 4x15 with lighter weight.

RDL is a great assistance exercise but it's not measurable which it seems you a realizing is a major weakness.  Deadlifting may not be as specific for jumping and may be dangerous (if performed stupidly IMHO) but it's actually one of the most measurable exercises there is.  In fact, it's the first test of strength our old strength coach used when evaluating athletes because it's there are no depth issues like in the squat and even with poor form is a decent indicator of whole body strength.

My only advice would be not to treat deadlifting like squat (ie with rep/set/ranges).  While you can train your recovery abilities to the point where you can squat daily.... that's really asking for trouble with the deadlift.  I increased my deadlift from 405 to 540 in about 6 months using heavy singles sparingly (every one to two weeks) and back off sets of RDL/Stiff legged deadlifts.   Good luck.
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TheSituation

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Re: Would you guys recommend I deadlift instead of RDL?
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2012, 05:57:45 pm »
+1
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTIdmCwAPpg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTIdmCwAPpg</a>
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Dreyth

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Re: Would you guys recommend I deadlift instead of RDL?
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2012, 11:14:08 pm »
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Quote from: T0ddday on May 25, 2012, 05:38:41 pm
Quote from: Dreyth on May 25, 2012, 02:03:57 pm
if anyone cares i've switched over to the conventional deadlift. currently my bests are 330x7 and 340x6. I will be attempting 350x5 next week.

I also do back extensions twice a week. On one day, I do 3x8 with heavier weight, and on the other day, 4x15 with lighter weight.

RDL is a great assistance exercise but it's not measurable which it seems you a realizing is a major weakness.  Deadlifting may not be as specific for jumping and may be dangerous (if performed stupidly IMHO) but it's actually one of the most measurable exercises there is.  In fact, it's the first test of strength our old strength coach used when evaluating athletes because it's there are no depth issues like in the squat and even with poor form is a decent indicator of whole body strength.

My only advice would be not to treat deadlifting like squat (ie with rep/set/ranges).  While you can train your recovery abilities to the point where you can squat daily.... that's really asking for trouble with the deadlift.  I increased my deadlift from 405 to 540 in about 6 months using heavy singles sparingly (every one to two weeks) and back off sets of RDL/Stiff legged deadlifts.   Good luck.

Thank you very much. I agree with everything in this post. In addition, I only deadlift once a week. In fact, I only do one heavy set a week. No 3x5 or anything like that, just ramping up to a top set and I still make great progress with it.
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TKXII

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Re: Would you guys recommend I deadlift instead of RDL?
« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2012, 01:41:16 pm »
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Quote from: steven-miller on April 03, 2012, 09:37:46 pm
RDLs have the advantage of a stretch-reflex in a potentially important ROM (of the hips)

Right, I think it's possible to have some intense amortizations with RDLs if you don't go too heavy and stop right before the plates hit the ground. After reading this I realize that I typically mix up RDLs, stiff legged and regular deadlifts in my dlift workouts, and sumo..i highly enjoy amortizing in this fashion during a deadlift session

The only thing that has not been mentioned is foot width. Try a closer stance, less than shoulder width, or sumo, while keeping the hips high, that would be more stiff-legged DL but it works. Even with conventinoal, you are definitely hitting your hamsrtings hard. perhaps some single leg hyperextensions or single leg light dumbell deadlifts could be another assistance exercise. RDLs are pretty heavy of a lift to be considered just an assistance exercise.


To answer your question dreyth, unracking 455 wouldn't be dangerous if your max was like 600+, but it could be if your max was like 465. I think it's a good test of will to just go for it, and not be afraid of the danger but that's just me.
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"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

mattyg35

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Re: Would you guys recommend I deadlift instead of RDL?
« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2012, 05:31:57 pm »
+1
Do both.
I regularly back squat, front squat, RDL, conventional DL, sumo DL, good morning, etc.

Don't limit your exercises due to labeling.
You could do a few sets of each of these in a single workout if you really wanted.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2012, 05:33:34 pm by mattyg35 »
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steven-miller

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Re: Would you guys recommend I deadlift instead of RDL?
« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2012, 08:29:18 pm »
+1
Quote from: mattyg35 on May 26, 2012, 05:31:57 pm
Do both.
I regularly back squat, front squat, RDL, conventional DL, sumo DL, good morning, etc.

Don't limit your exercises due to labeling.
You could do a few sets of each of these in a single workout if you really wanted.


How do you program your lifts? I would like to PR my squat, front squat, RDL, DL, sumo DL and good morning every week. Please show me how.
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FarBeyondDriven

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Re: Would you guys recommend I deadlift instead of RDL?
« Reply #29 on: July 05, 2012, 01:18:34 pm »
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Kind of an old post but it should be noted that at API they build there athletes almost exclusively around Romanian Dead Lift (RDL). Due to its implications in activating the gluteus /hamstrings (when done properly).  Of course none of there athletes are much concerned about picking anything heavy up off the ground or having big quads. They are much more concerned with the posterior chain and it role in speed/quickness on the field of play.
I was also surprised when Tim Hightower mentioned to me that the most of the strongest guys on the team "are not ones." Meaning they aren't the starters, but backups or 2nd or 3rd team guys.
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