Author Topic: Why you might consider learning the hang snatch  (Read 18775 times)

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Kellyb

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Re: Why you might consider learning the hang snatch
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2010, 04:16:58 pm »
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Naa haven't assessed it in ages.  I haven't been able to jump maximally in quite a while.  My knees won't let me do it.  I can do submax jumps once I get really warmed up and can still get the rim pretty easy on a nice smooth submax jump but anytime I apply much force to see what I can really do my joints don't tolerate it and I spend the next few days paying for it 

Raptor

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Re: Why you might consider learning the hang snatch
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2010, 06:11:33 pm »
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Why? I mean, you had bad form on squats and all that when you were younger or to what do you attribute that? It could help younger people learn from you and prevent the same from happening to them.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

Kellyb

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Re: Why you might consider learning the hang snatch
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2010, 10:54:42 pm »
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Nothing specific but most people who played as much basketball and other sports as I did along with extreme training will have some degree of damage at my current age.  For years I played on concrete courts and that probably has a lot to do with it. I've never had a single acute injury that kept me out of action - I've had tendonitis and an occassional ankle sprain but no ligament tears, muscle tears or anything like that..just general wear, tear, and age. The training I consider the least of the culprits...the only thing I've done trainingwise that I thought that jacked me up pretty good was some of the DB hammer stuff like REA squats.

I also had some degree of rheumatoid arthritis, which is an immune disease where your immune system attacks the joints. Mine was fairly mild as far as that goes and just caused fatigue, general muscle stiffness, and chronic pain in my hands, fingers, toes, and ankles.  It's pretty much gone now but I imagine it did/does spill over and affect the larger joints to some extent even if it didn't cause me pain. I'm not sure much my knee and hip issues are due to that and how much is due to just general wear and tear. I can still sprint without problems but there's just too much ground reaction force in the jumps and I can't bend my knees enough at high speed to get a 100% effort in without jacking myself up.

JackW

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Re: Why you might consider learning the hang snatch
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2010, 11:23:01 pm »
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Nothing specific but most people who played as much basketball and other sports as I did along with extreme training will have some degree of damage at my current age.  For years I played on concrete courts and that probably has a lot to do with it. I've never had a single acute injury that kept me out of action - I've had tendonitis and an occassional ankle sprain but no ligament tears, muscle tears or anything like that..just general wear, tear, and age. The training I consider the least of the culprits...the only thing I've done trainingwise that I thought that jacked me up pretty good was some of the DB hammer stuff like REA squats.

I also had some degree of rheumatoid arthritis, which is an immune disease where your immune system attacks the joints. Mine was fairly mild as far as that goes and just caused fatigue, general muscle stiffness, and chronic pain in my hands, fingers, toes, and ankles.  It's pretty much gone now but I imagine it did/does spill over and affect the larger joints to some extent even if it didn't cause me pain. I'm not sure much my knee and hip issues are due to that and how much is due to just general wear and tear. I can still sprint without problems but there's just too much ground reaction force in the jumps and I can't bend my knees enough at high speed to get a 100% effort in without jacking myself up.

I am with you 100% on this Kelly. Too much basketball on hard courts, lots of intense training, throw in age related wear and tear  and maximal jumping just becomes completely out of the question unless you are happy to hobble around for a few days.

Being able to dunk a basketball was something that I worked my ass off for nearly 2 years to achieve. It is something I am immensley proud off. It is also something that I ask myself on a regular basis - was it worth it? The answer depends on how sore my knees are that day.

LBSS

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Re: Why you might consider learning the hang snatch
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2010, 11:34:15 pm »
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Nothing specific but most people who played as much basketball and other sports as I did along with extreme training will have some degree of damage at my current age.  For years I played on concrete courts and that probably has a lot to do with it. I've never had a single acute injury that kept me out of action - I've had tendonitis and an occassional ankle sprain but no ligament tears, muscle tears or anything like that..just general wear, tear, and age. The training I consider the least of the culprits...the only thing I've done trainingwise that I thought that jacked me up pretty good was some of the DB hammer stuff like REA squats.

I also had some degree of rheumatoid arthritis, which is an immune disease where your immune system attacks the joints. Mine was fairly mild as far as that goes and just caused fatigue, general muscle stiffness, and chronic pain in my hands, fingers, toes, and ankles.  It's pretty much gone now but I imagine it did/does spill over and affect the larger joints to some extent even if it didn't cause me pain. I'm not sure much my knee and hip issues are due to that and how much is due to just general wear and tear. I can still sprint without problems but there's just too much ground reaction force in the jumps and I can't bend my knees enough at high speed to get a 100% effort in without jacking myself up.

What say you, adarq?
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

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adarqui

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Re: Why you might consider learning the hang snatch
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2010, 12:03:53 am »
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Nothing specific but most people who played as much basketball and other sports as I did along with extreme training will have some degree of damage at my current age.  For years I played on concrete courts and that probably has a lot to do with it. I've never had a single acute injury that kept me out of action - I've had tendonitis and an occassional ankle sprain but no ligament tears, muscle tears or anything like that..just general wear, tear, and age. The training I consider the least of the culprits...the only thing I've done trainingwise that I thought that jacked me up pretty good was some of the DB hammer stuff like REA squats.

I also had some degree of rheumatoid arthritis, which is an immune disease where your immune system attacks the joints. Mine was fairly mild as far as that goes and just caused fatigue, general muscle stiffness, and chronic pain in my hands, fingers, toes, and ankles.  It's pretty much gone now but I imagine it did/does spill over and affect the larger joints to some extent even if it didn't cause me pain. I'm not sure much my knee and hip issues are due to that and how much is due to just general wear and tear. I can still sprint without problems but there's just too much ground reaction force in the jumps and I can't bend my knees enough at high speed to get a 100% effort in without jacking myself up.

What say you, adarq?

how intense did he go? what kind of style did he use? inno recommends 30-70% of 1RM from what I remember.. i don't think people should go up much over 50%.. Alot of people on the db forum also do REA squats DEEP.. I think going heavy + DEEP REA is risky, but half squat REA should be fine, at ~30-50%, no more than that.

I remember KB posted in db forum that he attributed alot of knee issues to front squatting, but front squatting was very effective at improving his SVJ, something along those lines:

Quote from: KB?
My front squats have always been painful and never been very good in comparison to back squat because of my longer femurs, but I've done around 275 x 1 at around 160. The combination of front squats and power snatches made a very noticeable and immediate impact on my standing 2 handed jump with a basketball in hand. The effect was immediate and seemed to effect that style of jump more than any other. However, I blame the front squats on instigating the quad tendonitis I eventually developed in both knees. If you have posterior tilt or naturally weak hamstrings I'd stay away from front squats as they effectively take the hamstrings nearly completely out of the movement.

Raptor

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Re: Why you might consider learning the hang snatch
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2010, 07:22:13 am »
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It's interesting if these are the only limiting factors or is the neurochemistry worse with age (and with age I mean 30 to 40 years old) "much" worse than in the 20-30s (by that I mean the speed of the signal and it's intensity towards the muscles).

Do you have the same "rage" and "ferociousness" when jumping (if you weren't limited by the bones/joints etc) as in the past? The same "rate coding" if you will?
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

vag

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Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

Kellyb

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Re: Why you might consider learning the hang snatch
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2010, 01:20:34 pm »
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It's interesting if these are the only limiting factors or is the neurochemistry worse with age (and with age I mean 30 to 40 years old) "much" worse than in the 20-30s (by that I mean the speed of the signal and it's intensity towards the muscles).

Do you have the same "rage" and "ferociousness" when jumping (if you weren't limited by the bones/joints etc) as in the past? The same "rate coding" if you will?

Raptor,

I have lost very little of that.  In fact I was running sprints a few weeks ago and my 10 and 20 yard sprints were about as fast as ever.  The main thing I notice with the age is a loss of testosterone which leads to a loss of muscle mass which leads to some loss of power in some muscle groups. That and now it takes forever to warm up and get the blood flowing.  My body comp and strength aren't quite what they were even under the same training and diet. I used to have veins everywhere and stayed ripped to shreds now I look like a normal untrained thin guy.

Regarding the reactive squats, I never did them deep but did go up to around 40-50% with them. They're the one exercise I felt like I tore myself up on acutely.  I like regular jump squats both with pauses and without I just don't think there are many advantages to rapid loaded eccentrics into a squatting position with any type of load.  If you keep them light and pay strict attention to form you'll probably be alright though.   Front squats made my quads grow so fast they got tighter than a drum and I wasn't doing enough quad stretching and that seemed to promote tendonitis - they definitely worked though.

Raptor

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Re: Why you might consider learning the hang snatch
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2010, 01:32:51 pm »
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Well since I look like a normal untrained thin guy with both training and nutrition up to par, I guess the only way to get ripped and powerful (while still being a nerdy guy) is to get into roids! I can see it clearly now, it's like a vision! :pissed:

I can only imagine the skinny-fatness of me when I get older.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

adarqui

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Re: Why you might consider learning the hang snatch
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2010, 08:34:51 pm »
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Well since I look like a normal untrained thin guy with both training and nutrition up to par, I guess the only way to get ripped and powerful (while still being a nerdy guy) is to get into roids! I can see it clearly now, it's like a vision! :pissed:

I can only imagine the skinny-fatness of me when I get older.

why don't you do more interval sprints/interval fitness work first.

it's not a good sign when this is said:

"Yeah since running two times down the court makes me wanna go home and sleep... ninja" -- raptor


why would your body composition improve greatly if on your upper body days you normally just go in and lift weights and thats it? same for lower body days pretty much, except you add some reactive work/jumps.. that's not alot of calories burned nor is it a good way to improve overall fitness/work capacity.

i'd fix that first before theoretically resorting to roids.

pc

bball2020

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Re: Why you might consider learning the hang snatch
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2010, 09:12:58 pm »
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true that adarq, same thing i just said in my journal

Point being, IMO most people that do nothing besides lift and the low volume power oriented jump work will be in trouble without some kind of general fitness work (pickup,cardio,dribbling,walking,swimming,anything). The heart is the most important muscle.  Low work capacity not good for vert training or life in general(neither is being overweight)..

adarqui

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Re: Why you might consider learning the hang snatch
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2010, 09:16:01 pm »
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true that adarq, same thing i just said in my journal

Point being, IMO most people that do nothing besides lift and the low volume power oriented jump work will be in trouble without some kind of general fitness work (pickup,cardio,dribbling,walking,swimming,anything). The heart is the most important muscle.  Low work capacity not good for vert training or life in general(neither is being overweight)..

x2

Raptor

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Re: Why you might consider learning the hang snatch
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2010, 08:25:58 am »
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Well to tell you the truth... because I'm afraid of cardio. Like genuinely. Two of my family "men" have died after effort... one came with his bike home and had a vein pop out in his head at 25 years old or so after effort. Another one died after he got home on his bike, was kind of tired, and the elevator was broken so he used the stairs to get home (at the 8th floor of the building) and his heart stopped and started vomiting and coughing up blood and pink foam (sign of pulmonary edema) - and he died basically of a heart attack after effort.

So I keep that in mind and whenever my heart rate goes up at pretty much anything, these things keep coming up in my head and I get scared and my heart rate goes even higher and my fatigue increases a lot in just a few seconds. Then I'm done.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

LBSS

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Re: Why you might consider learning the hang snatch
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2010, 09:32:42 am »
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Well to tell you the truth... because I'm afraid of cardio. Like genuinely. Two of my family "men" have died after effort... one came with his bike home and had a vein pop out in his head at 25 years old or so after effort. Another one died after he got home on his bike, was kind of tired, and the elevator was broken so he used the stairs to get home (at the 8th floor of the building) and his heart stopped and started vomiting and coughing up blood and pink foam (sign of pulmonary edema) - and he died basically of a heart attack after effort.

So I keep that in mind and whenever my heart rate goes up at pretty much anything, these things keep coming up in my head and I get scared and my heart rate goes even higher and my fatigue increases a lot in just a few seconds. Then I'm done.

That sucks, man! But cardio doesn't necessarily have to feel like "effort" to be worthwhile. In fact, sometimes it should be really easy. You could just take a brisk walk around your neighborhood, or go hiking somewhere, or something like that. Don't think about it as focused exercise, don't try to get your heart rate up, just get out and move around a little bit.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter