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Some of you that follow me know I don't try to jam the O-lifts down peoples throat but done correctly the hang snatch (or clean) is surely an easy way to self monitor and increase RFD and strength speed specific to the VJ over time:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/236664/Canavan-et-al-1996-Kinematic-and-Kinetic-relationships-between-an-olympic-style-lift-and-the-vertical-jump

A friend of mine did some research on a masters thesis several years back and the high hang snatch actually came out ahead of the depth jump and loaded jump squat as far as EMG specifity to the VJ.   

I like the hang versions of the snatch and clean. Not that they're necessary, but they're relatively easy to learn, easy to implement, and also provide a great potentiation exercise. The best thing about them compared to a jump squat is they're much easier (and I think funner) to monitor than a jump squat because the weight's either getting heavier or it's not...you have something more tangible to shoot for.  They also help sports specific upper body strength as it relates to rebounding and such.   I like to have people alternate a set of O lifts with a set of plyometric variation like  depth jumps, tuck jumps, etc. 

Want a simple formula to shoot for as it relates to gains on the lifts for overall athletic success?  Add your bench press, midstance legal squat, hang snatch, and hang clean together then divide by your bodyweight.  The number to shoot for is 6.  If you can hit that chances are you're gonna be one explosive m'fer.  I learned that formula from a throwers coach years ago.  His wife IIRC was a bobsled competitor and former college basketball player.  Acording to my notes here he said that in college basketball she ran her butt off for 4 years and ran a 5.1 40 at 208lbs when she left basketball. Two years of weight training later she weighed 212 and ran a 4.7 and improved her vertical 6 inches without running or jumping in training.

In 1985 her bodyweight to strength ratio on the 4 lifts was just below 3.00. In 1987 it rose to 5.33 and she became a different athlete.

I had a guy a few years back really dedicate himself to that formula after I discussed it with him.  His main focus was getting bigger and more muscular the explosive gains were secondary.  I trained him for a while and got him started and he kinda took things on his own with occassional input from me and over a span of a couple of years went from 155 to 190 lbs and increased his vert from the mid 20's up to 39 inches and all he really did was throw in some depth jumps occassionally.

Yeah sure. If you're big enough to pick the weights up you're big enough to bring them down gently.    I guess it depends on how you were taught.  I've done the hang lifts off and on for 12 years and never dropped a weight yet, but I taught myself how to do them and when I originally learned I didn't know you were supposed to drop the weight so it's always felt unnatural for me to do so.

Also for anyone that wants to learn the lifts both the snatch and clean are basically just jumps with the weight in your hand.  To learn the clean start off with doing a jump with the weight in your hand starting from the shrug (hang) position.  Then add a powerful shrug to the jump just as you extend up on your toes. Then do a jump with a shrug then drive your elbows forward as the weight clears your lower chest.

To learn the snatch first learn how to do an overhead squat then put that together with the same jump shrug as the clean but use a wider grip.  If you concentrate on using the same lower body mechanics as a jump that tends to eliminate most common errors. 

Do you see hang cleans and hang snatches being possible in a gym where you're not allowed to throw the barbell in case of a missed lift (commercial gym basically)?

I agree with Kelly, but would want to add that having the possibility to drop a weight is really beneficial. Just for mental reasons alone one will be able to increase work weights a lot more aggressively since you won't have to fear to get thrown out of the gym for making noise or destroying equipment (or frightening other people and other silly bullshit like that ).

here's a nice vid by lance on jump snatch, a quick progression, stuckintheair surprised me with his hang snatch form, learned it very good from this video & he's only 14, anyone can do it

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTTmPtFIn-4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTTmPtFIn-4</a>



He's also a big proponent of hang snatch/hang jump snatch and it's correlation to vj.

peace

Lance does a really good job on describing the lift and I agree very much on the statement that pretty much anyone can learn how to do a hang snatch or hang clean if instructed properly.

U must, however keep in mind that you're talking about standing VJ..

Quote from: djoe on November 27, 2010, 06:24:08 pm

U must, however keep in mind that you're talking about standing VJ..

That's why you just add some plyos. The only primary difference between the standing bilateral vert and running are the activity of the plantar flexors and eccentric contraction in the plant that occurs in the quadriceps, both of which can easily be addressed thru an exercise like depth jumps.   The olifts also do a helluva job of potentiating the plyos which is why I like to have people do a set of plyos in between sets of the o-lifts.

Yeah I absolutely agree with this. When you separate the mechanics of the jump, it's pretty much the calves and quads "breaking" the momentum and the posterior chain (and sometimes the quads to a great extent in some people) providing the power to get up. In a way, I think bad posterior chain strength wrecks the amortization phase as well, since, at least in my mind, the body will compensate into trying to use the quads more which in return means they will bend more in the amortization phase (in order to load more and generate more concentric strength) which in return overloads them too much and compromises body position and de-activates the posterior chain.

They're all linked and with things like power snatches and pure hip power movements (more or less, there is "some" quad contribution probably, but you get the idea) you're also teaching the body "hey, use the hip extension more". With depth jumps, you might be going even deeper into the problems you already have if you're quad dominant.

That's why I still think depth drops actually are better than depth jumps... you can drop from higher altitudes and only focus on the eccentric part, which is (to me at least) what the focus should be in the first place in terms of plyos (yes yes there are exceptions, but I still maintain this thought).

^.. just suck it up and get gorilla hands..

or you can just stay with loaded jump squats (although not as cool as a well executed snatch). not everything needs to be measureable anyway. i use the jump squats for rhythm - quick and effortless transitions.. i do max jumps with the vertec. that 100% specific and measureable.

  Very nice thread, improvements in the hang snatch have always correlated really well for us with both running and standing jumps.  Some really good ideas and info in here, thanks for posting it Kellyb.

Have you recently tested your VJ Kelly? I wonder where it is right now. What are your strength levels at the moment?