Author Topic: Utilization of Strength  (Read 20280 times)

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seifullaah73

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Utilization of Strength
« on: August 26, 2011, 01:38:52 pm »
0
Hi

I was wondering, when you weight train like doing squats you become stronger and you recruit more muscle units as more muscle mass has been added.

A person who weighs 150lbs works up to a squat of 360lbs and yet his strength will below this level when doing sprint.

So i was wondering that after you reach the squat target is there any types of exercise you do so that you can utilize most of the force from the squat training to carry over onto your sprint. So utilize the force/strength acquired from the squat in a short time so it can be useful in the track.

Thanks
Warm up drills
   - a walk, b skip quick powerful switch (heel to hams focus), a runs, dribbles small to big to run, straight leg to runs (force, reflex, go up/forward). force to hit the ground before it hits the ground knee/hip is at 90 degrees.
   - acceleration: low heel recovery, shin angle low, drive legs back before hitting the ground and drive thighs/knee forward not up
-------------------------------------------------------------
Measuring reminder:
5 toe to heel steps = 148cm
------------------------------------------------------------------------

�Strength comes from the legs, Power comes from the torso and Speed comes from the arm.� � Al Vermeil
Arm also aids the legs in driving it down with power - seifullaah73

My Progress Log
A Journey to Running fast and Jumping High
http://www.adarq.org/progress-journals-experimental-routines/my-journey-to-hypertrophy/

D4

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Re: Utilization of Strength
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2011, 02:08:25 pm »
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Maintain that strength and go out and sprint a lot, and it will carryover.  And you gotta do some plyometric exercises to start developing your RFD and reactivity, or other explosive exercises.  You should be doing these WHILE you strength train anyways.
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steven-miller

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Re: Utilization of Strength
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2011, 02:21:31 pm »
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Hi

I was wondering, when you weight train like doing squats you become stronger and you recruit more muscle units as more muscle mass has been added.

A person who weighs 150lbs works up to a squat of 360lbs and yet his strength will below this level when doing sprint.

So i was wondering that after you reach the squat target is there any types of exercise you do so that you can utilize most of the force from the squat training to carry over onto your sprint. So utilize the force/strength acquired from the squat in a short time so it can be useful in the track.

Thanks

There are several great exercises that can be used for exactly this purpose. Depending on training advancement I would advise on different ones to improve carryover from the slower exercises (squat, deadlift etc.). The powerclean is a good exercise to start immediately with. From the conventional explosive strength exercises this one allows the most weight to be used and is comparatively easy to learn. Nearing the intermediate stage including the powersnatch and variations of it (hang snatch, jump snatch etc.) has been proven to be a good idea. After that things have to be evaluated on a more individual basis I assume. Various plyometric exercises (first and foremost the depth jump, depth drop and bounding variations) fit somewhere in there as well. I would probably introduce them for intermediates since beginners have no need for them IMO. Nothing wrong with low level plyos for every type of advancement though.


T0ddday

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Re: Utilization of Strength
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2011, 03:17:31 pm »
+1
Hi

I was wondering, when you weight train like doing squats you become stronger and you recruit more muscle units as more muscle mass has been added.

A person who weighs 150lbs works up to a squat of 360lbs and yet his strength will below this level when doing sprint.

So i was wondering that after you reach the squat target is there any types of exercise you do so that you can utilize most of the force from the squat training to carry over onto your sprint. So utilize the force/strength acquired from the squat in a short time so it can be useful in the track.

Thanks

You should continue sprint work WHILE you progressively get stronger in the squat.  If you want to run faster than you need to remember that weight training is secondary to sprint work and that the main effect of weight training will be on acceleration while most short sprint races are decided by maximum velocity and most middle distant races are decided by speed endurance.  You are correct that many adaptations govern increases in strength and unfortunately only some of the adaptations will carry over well to different activities.  Although I personally include full squats in my training and am in favor of all athletes at least being able to perform them, they are an exercise which may not have as immediate a carryover as partial squats.

That said, as long as you perform all your squat variations and some compound movements for your whole body while you continue to train hard on the track you won't have to do anything special after you hit your goal of a 360lb squat.  The reward will ahve already manifested itself in a faster time.

$ick3nin.v3nd3tta

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Re: Utilization of Strength
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2011, 10:08:15 pm »
+1
Utilization of Strength.

Man, what a kickass role I'm on today.


Quote
Functional Strength.

Dan Inosanto, another of Bruce Lee's close friends and himself an instructor in Lee's art, adds that Lee was only interested in strength that could readily be converted to power. "I remember once Bruce and I were walking along the beach in Santa Monica, out by where the 'Dungeon' (an old-time bodybuilding gym) used to be," recalls Inosanto, "when all of a sudden this big, huge bodybuilder came walking out of the Dungeon and I said to Bruce, 'Man, look at the arms on that guy!' I'll never forget Bruce's reaction, he said 'Yeah, he's big -- but is he powerful? Can he use that extra muscle efficiently?"


Power, according to Lee, lay in an individual's ability to use the strength developed in the gym quickly and efficiently; in other words, power was the measure of how quickly and effectively one could summon and coordinate strength for "real-world" purposes. On this basis, according to those who worked out with Lee from time to time such as martial arts actor Chuck Norris, Bruce Lee -- pound for pound-- might well have been one of the most powerful men in the world.

seifullaah73

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Re: Utilization of Strength
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2011, 01:47:42 pm »
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So a good way to get the most carryover from the squats is by doing sprint work as well as doing a explosive/power strength training by doing exercises such as plymotrics and olympic lifts.

Thanks for the help guys.
Warm up drills
   - a walk, b skip quick powerful switch (heel to hams focus), a runs, dribbles small to big to run, straight leg to runs (force, reflex, go up/forward). force to hit the ground before it hits the ground knee/hip is at 90 degrees.
   - acceleration: low heel recovery, shin angle low, drive legs back before hitting the ground and drive thighs/knee forward not up
-------------------------------------------------------------
Measuring reminder:
5 toe to heel steps = 148cm
------------------------------------------------------------------------

�Strength comes from the legs, Power comes from the torso and Speed comes from the arm.� � Al Vermeil
Arm also aids the legs in driving it down with power - seifullaah73

My Progress Log
A Journey to Running fast and Jumping High
http://www.adarq.org/progress-journals-experimental-routines/my-journey-to-hypertrophy/

steven-miller

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Re: Utilization of Strength
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2011, 08:08:03 pm »
0
Utilization of Strength.

Man, what a kickass role I'm on today.


Quote
Functional Strength.

Dan Inosanto, another of Bruce Lee's close friends and himself an instructor in Lee's art, adds that Lee was only interested in strength that could readily be converted to power. "I remember once Bruce and I were walking along the beach in Santa Monica, out by where the 'Dungeon' (an old-time bodybuilding gym) used to be," recalls Inosanto, "when all of a sudden this big, huge bodybuilder came walking out of the Dungeon and I said to Bruce, 'Man, look at the arms on that guy!' I'll never forget Bruce's reaction, he said 'Yeah, he's big -- but is he powerful? Can he use that extra muscle efficiently?"


Power, according to Lee, lay in an individual's ability to use the strength developed in the gym quickly and efficiently; in other words, power was the measure of how quickly and effectively one could summon and coordinate strength for "real-world" purposes. On this basis, according to those who worked out with Lee from time to time such as martial arts actor Chuck Norris, Bruce Lee -- pound for pound-- might well have been one of the most powerful men in the world.

Your response is, once again, completely useless.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2011, 08:44:44 pm by steven-miller »

$ick3nin.v3nd3tta

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Re: Utilization of Strength
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2011, 08:38:20 pm »
-2
OK, something a bit more useful...

If you didn't have a barbell, do you think this exercise could become a useful alternative for squatting to enhance sprint ability?.




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« Last Edit: August 27, 2011, 08:47:19 pm by $ick3nin.v3nd3tta »

steven-miller

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Re: Utilization of Strength
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2011, 08:44:12 pm »
+2
OK, something useful...

If you didn't have a barbell, do you think this exercise could become a useful alternative for squatting to enhance sprint ability?.

This is as useless as it gets since barbells exist and if you are serious about training you get access to them.

adarqui

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Re: Utilization of Strength
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2011, 09:03:19 pm »
+2
OK, something useful...

If you didn't have a barbell, do you think this exercise could become a useful alternative for squatting to enhance sprint ability?.

This is as useless as it gets since barbells exist and if you are serious about training you get access to them.

^^^^^^^

the exercise is fine as accessory, or just to mess around with.. it could benefit slightly, "coordination", "stability", and flexibility.. but it's not an exercise that will recruit the highest threshold MU's at a high rate of discharge/firing frequency.. thus, it is accessory.. accessory consists of everything from rdl's, to bosu ball balancing.. it's not a primary exercise of which one would spend vast amount of time trying to perfect/improve for one major reason => results.

pc

RJ Nelsen

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Re: Utilization of Strength
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2011, 01:48:43 pm »
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I disagree with Andrew and Steven, the shrimp is the backbone of my lower body training right now. Provided one is coordinated enough, they should actually be seeing higher levels of muscular tension in the shrimp than in the back squat due to the bilateral deficit. Lack of balance is an individual issue.

That having been said, unweighted shrimps are damn near useless. I'm using 110 lbs on my shoulders for reps at a BW of 225, so the exercise is a bit different the way I do it.

steven-miller

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Re: Utilization of Strength
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2011, 06:31:55 pm »
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I disagree with Andrew and Steven, the shrimp is the backbone of my lower body training right now. Provided one is coordinated enough, they should actually be seeing higher levels of muscular tension in the shrimp than in the back squat due to the bilateral deficit. Lack of balance is an individual issue.

So provided lack of balance was not there, which will always be a limiting factor with a heavy weight no matter how coordinated you are, it would be a useful unilateral exercises. But this is purely hypothetical because balance is an issue, for example for you. The evidence is you using 110 lbs for a lower body strength exercise.

TheSituation

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Re: Utilization of Strength
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2011, 06:53:36 pm »
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I disagree with Andrew and Steven, the shrimp is the backbone of my lower body training right now. Provided one is coordinated enough, they should actually be seeing higher levels of muscular tension in the shrimp than in the back squat due to the bilateral deficit. Lack of balance is an individual issue.

That having been said, unweighted shrimps are damn near useless. I'm using 110 lbs on my shoulders for reps at a BW of 225, so the exercise is a bit different the way I do it.

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RJ Nelsen

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Re: Utilization of Strength
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2011, 06:59:06 pm »
+1
So provided lack of balance was not there, which will always be a limiting factor with a heavy weight no matter how coordinated you are, it would be a useful unilateral exercises. But this is purely hypothetical because balance is an issue, for example for you. The evidence is you using 110 lbs for a lower body strength exercise.

I'm sorry, but your post shows a lack of understanding. The load utilized is, in itself, irrelevant. Would you say someone is weak because they can only do an iron cross with a 10kg weight vest? I mean, the vest is only 10 kilos, that's light, right?

When calculating loads for a shrimp or a pistol, the trainee's body weight needs to be taken into consideration. When doing an unladen shrimp, the load is roughly 85% of the person's body weight, so 170 lbs for a 200 lb man, which is being lifted on one foot. This is equivalent to the load on the legs found in a ~170 lb back squat.

For someone like me, an unladen shrimp results in about 190 lbs of weight per leg. Add 110 lbs of load and that's 300 lbs per leg. An equivalent back squat (in terms of tension on the legs) is around 410 lbs. The math breaks down as follows. 300 per leg x 2 = 600 lbs. 600 lbs - 190 for BW = 410. In other words, when I'm doing 110 lb single leg work, it's equivalent to repping 410 lb squats, at least as far as tension on the muscles of my legs and hips are concerned. The lower back is another matter.  

T0ddday

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Re: Utilization of Strength
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2011, 07:07:55 pm »
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Just wondering RJ, where do you put the 110 lbs?  Do you have some type of heavy weight vest?