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Quote from: seifullaah73 on June 23, 2012, 11:18:36 am

Its quite interesting the spiral technique. But i would like a detailed explanation on how to do it.

I went to the site and got this info on how to do it.

"spiraling your arms with your hand supinating on the upstroke and pronating on the downstroke"

so when you hands is coming forward and up your hands are supposed to be in a supinating position.

below is a diagram of different hand positions.



That looks strange, the palms facing upwards when coming up instead of neutral position and facing down when going back.
you rotate from the elbow.

please someone explain
thanks

I'll save you a lot of time by advising you not to waste your time with this stuff. 

I will second Avishek's advice that "relaxation" is not as good of a cue as "awareness".  Might have to steal that one . There is nothing "relaxing" about sprinting.  However, again I will remind you that it's probably not in your best interest to worry to much about spiraling your arms or relaxing at top speed.  If you aim to improve and work hard enough that in a couple of years you will go from your current ability to being essentially a new person who is significantly faster. 

Rather than worrying about relaxation or spiraling your hands you should continue to work on your full effort sprints as well as relaxed tempo work at about 75-80% intensity.  Doing tempo work and realizing that you can go pretty fast without trying will help you learn to "relax" more when you are competing.  If you train successfully you will go from:   

A 140 pound person running 15.x seconds.
A 160 pound person running 11.x seconds.

The drastic improvement you can make as a beginner by just getting stronger and more powerful and accelerating to newfound speeds means that if you spending time working on your technique cues at your current levels won't pay off as much as you apply more much strength to the track and go much faster.  It's akin to going to the moon and having to relearn how to run at different gravity levels.  The only cues your should work to fix now are those which are gross motor inefficiencies (ie. arms coming across body, legs arms not coordinated).  Cues are important but if they were as important as power in track we wouldn't have so many of what seem like counterexamples in the sport today.  I forget the athletes name but the guy who got 3rd or 4th in the NCAA's 400m (I think from Illinois or somewhere in the big ten) ran a 45.1 or something and ran the last 300 meters with his torso and head tilted completely back and his back completely arched.  He looked horrible.  BUT he ran a 45.1.  More efficient running would probably take him to approximately 44.7....   Point being he would get slightly better.  BUT he has a 45.1 because he is still very very strong.  That's where you want to be.  It's a great problem to have.   Get incredibly strong and enjoy being fast, and start worrying about these cues when you run sub 12 seconds.   

Good luck!   

Excellent Advice mate, thanks.

Can you explain how to do tempo runs, i came across one place which said you run at a slow pace for about 15-20min.

thanks

Quote from: seifullaah73 on June 24, 2012, 07:48:56 am

Can you explain how to do tempo runs, i came across one place which said you run at a slow pace for about 15-20min.

thanks

lol, that's continuous tempo.  Definitely not something a sprinter should do regularly.  Continuous tempo is generally for middle/long distance running.  Try this:

http://www.elitetrack.com/faqs/answer/216

http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_strength/tempo_work_in_sprint_training

post number 8, which is an extensive tempo example


I know Charlie Francis liked to use extensive tempo almost exclusively, and did little to know intensive tempo work.  However guys like Glen Mills(Asafa Powell's coach) think that alternating speed days and intensive tempo is better.  Generally, extensive tempo is more intense than intensive tempo(duh).


Personally, I prefer extensive tempo, to keep my CNS fresh.  The total volume in meters of tempo, and the distances per repetition will be based on your abilities as a sprinter.

LOL i definitely don't want that. also in another place it said do you want to be as fast as the kenyans, i was thinking no, lol, i knew that it was for long distance.

so i will incorporate the tempo runs and maybe add the float sprint float; which is i accelerate relaxed, sprint relaxed then decelerate a little relaxed.

for the tempo runs at 75-80% im not good at knowing how intense with percentages those are so im guessing reaching almost full intensity.

btw regarding the sprint float sprint from elite track it says

Sprint-float-sprints or ins-and-outs are runs of longer duration (60-90m) that can also be used to develop maximal velocity. Typically they start with a 20-35m hard acceleration (sprint). The acceleration is followed by a second segment (20-30m; the float) where the athlete focuses on running relaxed and using the momentum developed from the first acceleration. The third segment (20-30m), is basically a flying sprint (see flying sprints above).

so i accelerate full intensity, then continuing sprinting from the acceleration but relaxed, then do flying sprints which is run, then maintain that speed.


is this what you meant for speed change drills, also the third part you do flying sprints,

Flying sprints are sprints of short duration (10-30m) performed with a short preceding run-in (20-30m)

so its has 4 stages to it.

overall my drills to add

tempo runs 75-80% intensity
float sprint float
sprint float sprint (flying sprint)

thanks
 

so i will incorporate the tempo runs and maybe add the float sprint float; which is i accelerate relaxed, sprint relaxed then decelerate a little relaxed.

for the tempo runs at 75-80% im not good at knowing how intense with percentages those are so im guessing reaching almost full intensity.

btw regarding the sprint float sprint from elite track it says

Quote

Sprint-float-sprints or ins-and-outs are runs of longer duration (60-90m) that can also be used to develop maximal velocity. Typically they start with a 20-35m hard acceleration (sprint). The acceleration is followed by a second segment (20-30m; the float) where the athlete focuses on running relaxed and using the momentum developed from the first acceleration. The third segment (20-30m), is basically a flying sprint (see flying sprints above).

so i accelerate full intensity, then continuing sprinting from the acceleration but relaxed, then do flying sprints which is run, then maintain that speed.


is this what you meant for speed change drills, also the third part you do flying sprints,

Quote

Flying sprints are sprints of short duration (10-30m) performed with a short preceding run-in (20-30m)

so its has 4 stages to it.

overall my drills to add

tempo runs 75-80% intensity
float sprint float
sprint float sprint (flying sprint)

thanks
 

Lol, don't think about it too much.  The definition is exactly what it is on there.  You're plugging in the fly as if it were a variable in an algebra problem.  Sprint-float-sprint is just, a hard acceleration, a relaxed sprint phase at near max velocity, and then a full-on sprint at full intensity.  Todday is right in that you might not be fully "relaxed."  It's just that top athletes tend to be relaxed during their top performances.  It's more important that you don't strain too much during training.



As for your training, tempo work is generally used on days following high intensity days for sprinters to spare the CNS, but get in active recovery, as well as more chances for motor learning, etc.  So on your Saturday, Monday, Wednesday set up, most coaches would have you do ext. tempo on Sunday, Tuesday, and Thursday as active recovery, and have Friday off.  Some coaches might give you Thursday off as well, to give more complete regeneration, but that's up to you.

If you want to run at 75% intensity, then use 125% of your best 100m time(same applies for 200m if you include that in your runs) and use that as your cap for speed.  For simplicity's sake, I'll use a 10 second 100m(I know not many people run this lmao).  125% of 10 is 12.5 seconds, considering you probably won't factor in reaction times during tempo, or fatigue you would use 13 seconds, meaning you can't run any faster than that(or else it's too intense for recovery).  You also have to consider other factors for your capping, like running surfaces during the 100m, and your tempo training.  Obviously grass surfaces will make you slower, so you have to adjust the cap accordingly, and make it easier on yourself.


For speed volume, generally you shouldn't exceed 500m of total sprinting(this is hard accelerations and the top speed portion of flies. EFE, FEF, etc.), and 300m is a good distance to shoot for.  However, if you get fatigued, and your times get slower, then you should stop, even if it's at a low number.


Take it all in slow, and don't make too many changes if you don't have too.  Just make sure you keep progressing, and don't aggravate that ankle of yours.

When you say don't exceed 500m in terms of total, you are referring to the tempo example posted of the third set, which is too much as it is 600m and 300m is the total you are still referring.

so make sure each set doesn't exceed 300m in total.

Lol, that's for speedwork, meaning the high intensity stuff.  Your tempo work won't matter, that's supposed to be higher volume, lower intensity.  You can use that Charlie Francis example, and follow it if you like.  Remember, tempo is just active recovery/conditioning/motor learning.  It's not speedwork.  Extensive tempo can be anywhere from 1000m to 3000m total for the entire session, the sets can be as long, or as short as you want.

As for speedwork, I meant 500m should be your cap for the highest intensity sprints, on your "speed" days.  300m is a good number to try and hit, but you should stop if you drop off too much.

The core example is fine, don't be afraid to change that though  Ground based ab circuits are hard to measure progress on, and changing it doesn't matter as much as your speed/tempo work.

Hey man it's great you're keen but IMO you really don't have to overcomplicate things at your current level. Forget the weighted vests and tire drags, just make a simple training program (e.g. 1 speed work session, one tempo session, two gym sessions a week) and stick with it for a few months. You'll learn a lot just from getting out there and TRAINING.

So am i good to go and start the routine i showed.

Thanks for all the help guys, really appreciate it.
 

I am not only training for 100m but also 200m.

So i have decided to encorporate the sprint, float, sprint, not to help with relaxing but help with floating during the 200m race

which i read from this site

http://www.athletesacceleration.com/200metertraining.html

cool site and helpful.

leave it as it was 20m, 30m, 20m.