Author Topic: The right and wrong way to squat  (Read 20147 times)

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TKXII

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Re: The right and wrong way to squat
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2011, 10:15:18 am »
0
Actually, my max squat to just below parallel is higher than 225. 225 is referring to atg, completely paused at the bottom.
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

Raptor

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Re: The right and wrong way to squat
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2011, 01:10:08 pm »
+2
I don't know what's your fetish with specificity. Even if it were like you're saying, a full squat is more about building muscle than a specificity exercise for jumping. You have, well, jumping to teach jumping. Plyos, jumps squats, etc etc etc.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

TKXII

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Re: The right and wrong way to squat
« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2011, 02:22:22 pm »
0
Really? Build muscle? I didn't know that. Cuz you can just build muscle with leg extensions. ANd I don't know either, I'm jst a perfectionist so I have this fetish I know. Lol it sued to be worse though way worse.
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

TheSituation

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Re: The right and wrong way to squat
« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2011, 03:41:24 pm »
+1
Nobody cares about your argument because your max squat is 225.

Despite having a poor squat, I can jump standing higher than most people with better squat ratios. That's important. So instead of striving for higher numbers, making the squat the most specific/powerful is more important. And my true max is really 230. Lol that still sucks I know. Not to mention that power and force training are totally different and having a heavy squat does not mean you are the most powerful with a 50%1RM jump squat or even BW.

My Max deadlift is 2.7x BW above 425 at this point. So that's good. That might slightly improve my SVJ as well so who knows. I think I can hit the three in less than a month.



But you said you didn't squat until recently, but you were able to jump high before, meaning the "proper" squats have nothing to do with your jump

/thread
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[7:31pm] adarq: ripp, being honest, it's hard for u to beat jcsbck, he's on fire lately
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steven-miller

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Re: The right and wrong way to squat
« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2011, 05:58:01 pm »
0
But you said you didn't squat until recently, but you were able to jump high before, meaning the "proper" squats have nothing to do with your jump
/thread

This.

Also about me being unable to critique your points... There are actually just too many things wrong with your analysis and I don't have time nor motivation to explain this exercise to you. I recommend that you read Starting Strength by Rippetoe for 60+ pages on just squat technique for one point of view. Just an example of a conclusive line of thought - something that you have not provided in the slightest.

To get you started: Why don't you explain to me what happens with high weights when balance is off the mid-foot and onto heels or toes. Your experience does not apply here since you have never in your life squatted a heavy weight. But maybe your amazing thinking skills can help you out.

Btw., the plural of amygdala is amygdalae and you don't seem to understand the purpose of this structure.

Raptor

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Re: The right and wrong way to squat
« Reply #35 on: December 20, 2011, 07:05:59 pm »
0
What about high bar quad driven squats vs low bar hip driven squats for athleticism (read - for specificity). Some say high bar is better since there's more emphasis on quads and the quads are more important in terms of jumping and athleticism in general since they can decelerate you, help a ton with the amortization phase in a jump, help you stop on a dime, help will all kinds of movements. Sure Rippetoe comes in saying that if you can already front squat, why waste time with another quad oriented squat like the high bar squat and not go with low bar hip oriented.

Does anybody buy into any of that?

Should a guy that can't/don't want to front squat go with a high bar squat to prevent the quad from "being ignored" as there'll be less emphasis with a low bar squat on quad development/focus/tension etc etc?
« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 07:08:00 pm by Raptor »
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

TKXII

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Re: The right and wrong way to squat
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2011, 07:55:14 pm »
0
Despite just recently squatting and starting out with almost a 30''svj, my SVJ has gone up 4'' with about 40+lbs increase in squat. Once I get to 315 with this style I can comment again. THis has to do with specificity of the squat.

Interesting point about the amygdalae. And I very well do understand their purpose and deal with it in every single debate I am in since most people cannot think rationally under stress. But still steven you are not providing a rebuttal, you are playing the "go do your own research you fool" card. If you provide the adequate rebuttal with say a few quotes or so it would take care of the argument itself. I don't have too much interest in rippetoe, nor do I need to learn to squat properly. I'm trainig for vertical jumping and speed, not to squat more weight. I only mildly appreciate his amygdala-infused inspirational quotes people base their training on. Surely the 'proper' way to squat may be to go back on your heels, but not for athletic enhancement.

You don't have to do a calf-raise at the top of the squat in order to squat heel-to-toe. What's most important is that you don't go backwards on your heels. The point is that in a jump, you accelerate constantly (technically speaking you always accelerate due to gravity.. and it's always downwards..) If you do that in the squat, it could help you jump higher than going back on the heels. I'll post a video of myself soon making this distinction next time as soon as I get the chance to with weights. I suppose this is very similar to the argument, should you try to jump squat every rep you squat? Imo.. it would be better. It's not possible to jump squat with too much weight, but aiming to accelerate the bar upwards may be better. And a side effect of that is.. you're on your forefoot not on heels at the top.

"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

TheSituation

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Re: The right and wrong way to squat
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2011, 09:03:59 pm »
0
You squat 225, your argument is invalid. No rebuttal is necessary

/thead
I don't lift for girls, I lift for guys on the internet



[7:31pm] adarq: ripp, being honest, it's hard for u to beat jcsbck, he's on fire lately
[7:31pm] adarq: he's just
[7:31pm] adarq: wrecking people
[7:31pm] adarq: daily




Say NO to Maroko

And also NO to anyone who associates with him. No Taylor Allan. No Adam Scammenauger. No Kelly Baggett. No Elliot Hulse. No Jtrinsey. NO JUMP USA


Don't PM me asking me training questions. I'm here for the lulz. If you want help, post on the forums and get help from all the members, maybe even me.

AGC

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Re: The right and wrong way to squat
« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2011, 02:06:57 am »
0
Avishek, I reckon next time you should try a less blunt approach when you have something to discuss. I THINK that I understand what you're saying about the 'toe-heel' movement while squatting and its dissimilarity to an athlete's jumping action, but your point has really become lost with your "me against the forum" attitude.

If beginners are actually reading this topic to know the right and wrong way to move your feet while squatting, Kingfish has it right:


i do not shift the load (toe/heel) in my squats. that is very unsafe and can really get somebody injured. 

i focus on keeping the load distributed evenly with a little bias to the front 2/3s. i have size 12 shoes. everybody's form will be different. i also have a good amount of dorsi flexion ROM at the bottom.



steven-miller

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Re: The right and wrong way to squat
« Reply #39 on: December 21, 2011, 02:07:25 am »
0
@Raptor: Dropping names and "quoting" things those people never said makes you look foolish.

@Avishek: At this point it is apparent that you do not want to learn but just to rant. If you are not interested that's fine, but don't state your noob opinions as anything they are not (dito for amygdalae btw., you have no fucking clue what you are talking about).

vag

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Re: The right and wrong way to squat
« Reply #40 on: December 21, 2011, 02:48:03 am »
0
Despite just recently squatting and starting out with almost a 30''svj, my SVJ has gone up 4'' with about 40+lbs increase in squat. Once I get to 315 with this style I can comment again. THis has to do with specificity of the squat.

If u did the 'wrong' squat would you jump higher , lower , or the same?
Says who? Based on what research?


Surely the 'proper' way to squat may be to go back on your heels, but not for athletic enhancement.

Says who? Based on what research?


If you do that in the squat, it could help you jump higher than going back on the heels.

Says who? Based on what research?


I don't have too much interest in rippetoe, nor do I need to learn to squat properly. I'm trainig for vertical jumping and speed, not to squat more weight.

/thread
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

entropy

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Re: The right and wrong way to squat
« Reply #41 on: December 21, 2011, 04:25:42 am »
+1
Just drop a plate on your toe and if you do it right and actually fracture something, you can use it as a way to keep the weight (or tension or life force or whatever you wanna call it) on your heel rather than toes. Worked for me. I fractured mine last friday and I was squatting heel-to-toe (or the other way around? the OPs classification is not very clear) this monday. Hope this helps the newbies reading this thread.
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LBSS

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Re: The right and wrong way to squat
« Reply #42 on: December 21, 2011, 09:31:07 am »
0
Just drop a plate on your toe and if you do it right and actually fracture something, you can use it as a way to keep the weight (or tension or life force or whatever you wanna call it) on your heel rather than toes. Worked for me. I fractured mine last friday and I was squatting heel-to-toe (or the other way around? the OPs classification is not very clear) this monday. Hope this helps the newbies reading this thread.

hahahahaha, only worthwhile post in this entire thread. +1,000
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

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https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

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TKXII

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Re: The right and wrong way to squat
« Reply #43 on: December 21, 2011, 11:44:35 am »
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THe real argument is - should you try to jump with the weight as if you're jumping in a squat. The toe-to-heel terminology is a bit confusing.

I don't have research whoever asked me for that. I'm merely stating and sharing my opinion. As I mentioned, it would be fun to see research on this, all I have is empirical evidence so far. Furthermore, I did not mean to state it all as fact. But hey if someone really would like to provide research to readily refute this, go ahead I'm all eyes and ears. Has not come forth as of yet

Steven - learn so spell ditto correctly. I'm sorry I offended you you take things like a little bitch does.
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

LBSS

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Re: The right and wrong way to squat
« Reply #44 on: December 21, 2011, 03:53:18 pm »
0
THe real argument is - should you try to jump with the weight as if you're jumping in a squat. The toe-to-heel terminology is a bit confusing.

I don't have research whoever asked me for that. I'm merely stating and sharing my opinion. As I mentioned, it would be fun to see research on this, all I have is empirical evidence so far. Furthermore, I did not mean to state it all as fact. But hey if someone really would like to provide research to readily refute this, go ahead I'm all eyes and ears. Has not come forth as of yet

Steven - learn so spell ditto correctly. I'm sorry I offended you you take things like a little bitch does.

strong, strong use of the word "empirical."

perhaps learn to spell "do" correctly when correcting others' spelling.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter