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JC if you understand what I'm trying to ask why aren't you just answering the question?  How is this an impossible scenario?  It may be unlikely but theoretically I'm just asking what the outcome would be?

TWO GUYS PLAYERS A ND B - COMPLETELY equal height/weight/lower body power/body composition/skills, however player A has significantly more upper body strength than player B.  Who's the more effective player?

I didn't say strength from bench press, so please don't use your logic from before.  Just assume player A has a lot more upper body strength.  Who wins?

Quote from: JC on April 18, 2011, 04:44:23 am

Quote from: Ineedtodunk on April 18, 2011, 01:17:36 am

JC if you understand what I'm trying to ask why aren't you just answering the question?  How is this an impossible scenario?  It may be unlikely but theoretically I'm just asking what the outcome would be?

TWO GUYS PLAYERS A ND B - COMPLETELY equal height/weight/lower body power/body composition/skills, however player A has significantly more upper body strength than player B.  Who's the more effective player?

I didn't say strength from bench press, so please don't use your logic from before.  Just assume player A has a lot more upper body strength.  Who wins?

Player A wins by a slight margin

But it's still impossible.

Not impossible, just unlikely. Didn't you just counter your own argument saying improved upper body strength doesn't matter as long as u have the mass?

agree with the slight margin thing..u can go from 200lbs to 300lbs benching, but would it make any real difference in your game? Not really, help in same situations i guess, but if your really thinking your getting "better" by benching more your kind of mistaking. On the flip side, if your a weak dude putting on strength (and MASS like JC said) will make a huge difference.

Quote from: Dreyth on April 19, 2011, 10:21:16 pm

Quote from: bball2020 on April 18, 2011, 09:16:48 pm

agree with the slight margin thing..u can go from 200lbs to 300lbs benching, but would it make any real difference in your game? Not really, help in same situations i guess, but if your really thinking your getting "better" by benching more your kind of mistaking. On the flip side, if your a weak dude putting on strength (and MASS like JC said) will make a huge difference.

Pretty true. I guess the bench will really just help with more full-court chest pass distance. I mean, what else? I bench for mass as well though, more upper body mass will probably help more than upper body strength at a certain point.

I agree with you all.  Reason for me posting this topic was, assuming we all agree upper body STRENGTH helps in basketball, are there better exercises that carryover to basketball better than Bench Pressing or Pull Ups?  

Or is gaining upper body strength in general, through any exercises, the same thing?

This arguement is soo... Stupid!! I don't know a lot about lifting weights but I do know basketball. It all depends on the match up and skill level.  If someones not basketball smart and doesnt know how to use there strength on the court it's not going to do them any good, and even if the do know how to use there strength, and the other persons more skilled and has a higher basketball iq, then they find ways to stop the stronger person. I'm 6'0" my husbands the same height, same reach. I weight 130lbs on a good day, he weights 222lbs and I murder him in basketball. He backs me down every time, but I must say my lower body strength helps in when he's  backing me down. He's stronger, way bigger, but I'm just more skilled, and jump higher. When he backs me down. I sometimes let him go by me just to block his shot, I can't stop him from backing me down but being that I'm a ball player and he's just a big man who plays ball. I have the advantage! He's stronger, I'm more skilled, but if I was as strong as him with the skills I have, I'd really be a beast. So the moral of the story is Kevin derant would whip shaq in a game of 1 on 1.  but if you gave derant shaq's strength he'd be like lebron, but I'd bet lebron would be Kevin because he's stronger and he's skilled. So if your skilled already that strength is only going to turn you into more of a beast. In a match up situation like skill over strength it sometimes come down to who gets the most touches. If neither one of you can stop the other when playing defense, then who ever can keep the ball in there hand the most wins. SIMPLE MATHMATICAL PROGRESSION  

I know that's not the question you asked, just getting stronger period using bench press, ohp, squats, ... Etc  then go out and do basketball exercises like rim touches and passes with the weight/medicine ball. Defensive slides with resistance band. Stuff like that, just come up with your own exercises and use weights and resistance when doing them, using basketball movements.
MAKE SENSE TO ME 

Quote from: Ineedtodunk on April 20, 2011, 04:17:18 pm

Quote from: Girljordan on April 20, 2011, 12:24:52 pm

This arguement is soo... Stupid!! I don't know a lot about lifting weights but I do know basketball. It all depends on the match up and skill level.  If someones not basketball smart and doesnt know how to use there strength on the court it's not going to do them any good, and even if the do know how to use there strength, and the other persons more skilled and has a higher basketball iq, then they find ways to stop the stronger person. I'm 6'0" my husbands the same height, same reach. I weight 130lbs on a good day, he weights 222lbs and I murder him in basketball. He backs me down every time, but I must say my lower body strength helps in when he's  backing me down. He's stronger, way bigger, but I'm just more skilled, and jump higher. When he backs me down. I sometimes let him go by me just to block his shot, I can't stop him from backing me down but being that I'm a ball player and he's just a big man who plays ball. I have the advantage! He's stronger, I'm more skilled, but if I was as strong as him with the skills I have, I'd really be a beast. So the moral of the story is Kevin derant would whip shaq in a game of 1 on 1.  but if you gave derant shaq's strength he'd be like lebron, but I'd bet lebron would be Kevin because he's stronger and he's skilled. So if your skilled already that strength is only going to turn you into more of a beast. In a match up situation like skill over strength it sometimes come down to who gets the most touches. If neither one of you can stop the other when playing defense, then who ever can keep the ball in there hand the most wins. SIMPLE MATHMATICAL PROGRESSION  

I know that's not the question you asked, just getting stronger period using bench press, ohp, squats, ... Etc  then go out and do basketball exercises like rim touches and passes with the weight/medicine ball. Defensive slides with resistance band. Stuff like that, just come up with your own exercises and use weights and resistance when doing them, using basketball movements.
MAKE SENSE TO ME  

It's Kevin Durant, and giving him Lebron's strength will not make him up to par with Lebron, he will need the mass too.  Regardless, the point you're trying to make about you and your husband , and Lebron/Durant/Shaq is very poor.
And yes, you are completely missing the point of the two people who were productively arguing and the point of my topic in general.

How is my point very poor??
And what was the point of the argument, because this is what I read.
"Obviously for lower body, squatting is most essential.

But for Upper body I've been doing Bench Press and Pull Ups to target my chest/back/arms.  Are there other exercises you guys know that can replace Bench pressing or Pull Ups that will carryover to basketball better"
I'm just asking, are there better basketball carryover exercises
And my answer was:
I know that's not the question you asked, just getting stronger period using bench press, ohp, squats, ... Etc  then go out and do basketball exercises like rim touches and passes with the weight/medicine ball. Defensive slides with resistance band. Stuff like that, just come up with your own exercises and use weights and resistance when doing them, using basketball movements.
MAKE SENSE TO ME kinda like what Joe Joe said.  

Sorry for my 2 cents. I'm no expert, just a ball player. What do I know    good luck with everything tho.

Sharp elbows and knowing how to use them can make up for insufficient strength    -- just sayin'.