Author Topic: T-DUBS biggest secret. Elastic winding & coiling.  (Read 51787 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

LanceSTS

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2255
  • Respect: +550
    • View Profile
    • http://www.youtube.com/user/LanceSTS
    • Email
Re: T-DUBS biggest secret. Elastic winding & coiling.
« Reply #75 on: August 24, 2011, 02:00:57 pm »
0
made some gif's to include in my posts from now on..







 lmao, WOW. thats INSANE......
Relax.

adarqui

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 34034
  • who run it.
  • Respect: +9112
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: T-DUBS biggest secret. Elastic winding & coiling.
« Reply #76 on: August 24, 2011, 04:39:02 pm »
0
made some gif's to include in my posts from now on..







 lmao, WOW. thats INSANE......

yup... those are some of his most insane jumps, he has more of course, but that two hander never left my mind it's one of the most insane jumps ever.

imagine if he coiled properly though.. he's not properly twisting his actin/myosin fibers into a helix, his triptonin could be better utilized.

$ick3nin.v3nd3tta

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 335
  • Respect: -14
    • View Profile
Re: T-DUBS biggest secret. Elastic winding & coiling.
« Reply #77 on: August 24, 2011, 05:13:15 pm »
0
so if t-dub has a 51" vert, and stefan holm has a 51" vert, or area-51 has a 51" vert, or even adam linkenauger has a 50" vert, why the god damn fuck do you keep idolizing t-dub compared to everyone else?.

If they all have 51' verts fair enough but I still believe T-DUB possesses the better athleticism & elastic energy which separates him from the rest. Like I have said, how he goes about doing this 'I believe' lays a lot to his technique/the elastic energy being produced/developed just from dunkin' & his single-minded dedication, more than genetics.


if he has the most "elasticated" (lmfao) tendons on the planet, then why do you keep referring to his style of plant? if t-dub is in fact more like a kangaroo, why does his plant matter at all? his plant becomes a biproduct of his genetic advantages, not the other way around.. his plant didn't create his freak-like tendons..... his freak-like tendons created his plant.

anyway.. t-dub is hardly the most reactive athlete on the planet, single leg jumper's with similar verts will ALWAYS win that battle.. t-dub is freaky strong & very reactive, sure, but "most elastic athlete on the planet" ? not even close.

I keep referring to his style of plant because it puts a greater coil/torque through the whole body. I'm witness to this having included it my own program & it will stay, I believe it is that good.

I disagree with you saying, 'his plant didn't create his freak-like tendons' & it's just genetics. Tendons have to be developed like everything else.

T-DUB IMO is certainly up there as one of the most elastic athletes on the planet.



High Jump World Record 2.45 - Javier Sotomayor.



<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM24YXSpidU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM24YXSpidU</a>



Does anyone else see the similarities between T-DUB & Sotomayor's plant/coil/angles?.

adarqui

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 34034
  • who run it.
  • Respect: +9112
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: T-DUBS biggest secret. Elastic winding & coiling.
« Reply #78 on: August 24, 2011, 05:34:29 pm »
0
so if t-dub has a 51" vert, and stefan holm has a 51" vert, or area-51 has a 51" vert, or even adam linkenauger has a 50" vert, why the god damn fuck do you keep idolizing t-dub compared to everyone else?.

If they all have 51' verts fair enough but I still believe T-DUB possesses the better athleticism & elastic energy which separates him from the rest. Like I have said, how he goes about doing this 'I believe' lays a lot to his technique/the elastic energy being produced/developed just from dunkin' & his single-minded dedication, more than genetics.


if he has the most "elasticated" (lmfao) tendons on the planet, then why do you keep referring to his style of plant? if t-dub is in fact more like a kangaroo, why does his plant matter at all? his plant becomes a biproduct of his genetic advantages, not the other way around.. his plant didn't create his freak-like tendons..... his freak-like tendons created his plant.

anyway.. t-dub is hardly the most reactive athlete on the planet, single leg jumper's with similar verts will ALWAYS win that battle.. t-dub is freaky strong & very reactive, sure, but "most elastic athlete on the planet" ? not even close.

I keep referring to his style of plant because it puts a greater coil/torque through the whole body. I'm witness to this having included it my own program & it will stay, I believe it is that good.

I disagree with you saying, 'his plant didn't create his freak-like tendons' & it's just genetics. Tendons have to be developed like everything else.

T-DUB IMO is certainly up there as one of the most elastic athletes on the planet.



High Jump World Record 2.45 - Javier Sotomayor.



<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM24YXSpidU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM24YXSpidU</a>



Does anyone else see the similarities between T-DUB & Sotomayor's plant/coil/angles?.

anyone see the similarities between this girl's plant/coil/angles?

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk2P_VuzlGo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk2P_VuzlGo</a>

look at her foot, its perpendicular to the direction of the bar, just like how t-dub plants...

anyone ever notice how every high jumper plants like that, even really crappy ones who can't jump? i think im on to something.

adarqui

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 34034
  • who run it.
  • Respect: +9112
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: T-DUBS biggest secret. Elastic winding & coiling.
« Reply #79 on: August 24, 2011, 05:35:47 pm »
0
it's all vector math.. just add up the vectors.


D4

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1172
  • Respect: +152
    • View Profile
Re: T-DUBS biggest secret. Elastic winding & coiling.
« Reply #80 on: August 24, 2011, 05:49:41 pm »
0
it's all vector math.. just add up the vectors.



WHO THE HELL IS THAT DOING THAT TWO HANDER?!?!
Goal is to dunk.

Vertical needed to dunk: 40"

Current vertical : 38.5"

adarqui

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 34034
  • who run it.
  • Respect: +9112
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: T-DUBS biggest secret. Elastic winding & coiling.
« Reply #81 on: August 24, 2011, 05:56:45 pm »
0
it's all vector math.. just add up the vectors.



WHO THE HELL IS THAT DOING THAT TWO HANDER?!?!

golden child dude........ kevin kemp.

T0ddday

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1343
  • Respect: +1115
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: T-DUBS biggest secret. Elastic winding & coiling.
« Reply #82 on: August 24, 2011, 06:02:27 pm »
+1
Honestly, no.  I don't see much similarity to a high jumper jumping off one leg and the other video.  High jumpers have to turn their body cause they flop!  You do realize that right?

Anyway...there isn't much point to responding to this thread... but please notice that you summed up your point really succinctly in your last post.  First people pointed out the flaws with what you offered up as research to support your argument.  Then you were presented with multiple athletes who all perform the same activity (two footed jump) equally well and you responded with:

"I still believe T-DUB possesses the better athleticism & elastic energy which separates him from the rest"

In the end your whole argument comes down to this.  You believe he is better than the rest (for no measurable reason) and therefore his technique is better.  In the best case this is harmless.  You might continue to train and keep your focus on getting stronger, leaner, and more dynamic while also spending a few minutes of your training sessions trying to emulate how Tdub jumps.  If you follow this course you will no doubt jump higher and whether or not your ascribe a large part of your improvement to copying his technique doesn't really matter.  

However... That's the best case.  I am no expert on vertical jump improvement but I have seen so many athletes have their block start simply ruined by the same line of thinking you are displaying.  All too often, whether it's Asafa Powell's toe drag or Maurice Greene's low block position, any idiosyncrasy displayed by an elite athlete is analyzed by idiot coaches and determined to be beneficial and then copied by athletes all around.  When the mechanical change is small (ie. Michael Jordans tounge wag) usually the effect is small.  But when athletes to completely retool their start to look more some elite athlete the effect is never positive.  Asafa Powell has probably been dragging his toe for twenty years.  It doesn't help him, but he is probably so used to his movement pattern that it doesn't hurt him much either.  Although I have never really trained for vertical specifically, I think I am pretty safe to assume that the main ingredients for speed and vertical are the same:

A) Be really strong
B) Be really light  (relative to A)  
C) Be really reactive

Asafa drags his toe but Maurice Greene doesn't.  But they both accomplish A,B,and C better REALLY well.  Tdub has this strange takeoff.  The other examples presented to you do not.  But again; they all accomplish A,B, and C REALLY well.  In fact you won't find a elite counterexample for A B and C!  That alone should be reason enough to focus on those.  Get A,B and C down. Getting A B and C down might even change your mechanics such that you jump in a mechanically unique way which favors your body.  In the meantime try to let your progress get derailed by over analysis.  Good luck!  

adarqui

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 34034
  • who run it.
  • Respect: +9112
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: T-DUBS biggest secret. Elastic winding & coiling.
« Reply #83 on: August 24, 2011, 08:37:35 pm »
+1
^^^^


btw michael jordan tongue wag is very relevant.. good point. that's what this whole thread reminds me of, michael jordan's tongue wag....... someone sees it, thinks it's some kind of incredible missing ingredient, then goes on a tear implementing it/trying to convince others to implement it. tyson gay sticks out his tongue while sprinting 100m's, maybe sprinters could improve by mimicking his tongue wag, which he obviously got from jordan..

it all makes 0 sense.

t-dub plants the way he does because of a few things:

1. the way he's built (tendons/leverages etc)
2. his strength
3. his speed (which he can use because of his strength)
4. his 'style' (RL plant righty dunk, high speed)

instead some people are trying to act as if a guy who seems to have grown up in the hood & could 540 at age 14-15, is somehow consciously trying to apply advanced kinesiology/physiology/neuromuscular concepts to his jump..

to sickenin vendetta's defense, this is alot better than the pedal stroke threads.

TKXII

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1255
  • Respect: -12
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: T-DUBS biggest secret. Elastic winding & coiling.
« Reply #84 on: August 24, 2011, 11:29:27 pm »
0
This comes from an advertisement not scientific study:

www.somatics.de/FascialFitnessTerraRosa.pdf


The advertisement is pretty dishonest as well.  Kram and Dawson's paper is about whether hopping is favourable in arid climates, their paper never mentions the word catapult, nor do they mention gazelles.   The statement is quite silly because most mammals (including humans) can jump farther than can be explained by just the force of muscular contraction.  This is why we jump father after an approach, we are able to store energy in our tendons.  This is why plyometric training in addition to strength training allows people to jump higher. 

If you believe that this tdubs athlete is able to jump high because of some technical prowess that is fine.  But to claim he is able to twist his myosin filaments and then severely misquote an advertisement  which severely misquotes some scientific papers is unnecessary and does a disservice to those who read your posts. 

It also makes people refuse to consider the possibility that this athletes take off mechanics allow him to store more energy from his approach, something which is entirely possible.  However, I will tell you that I have extensively studied long jump mechanics and even written papers concerning the long jump and that Carl Lewis and Mike Powell both jump close to 30 feet and have drastically different takeoff mechanics and takeoff velocity.  So even if this athlete uses this take off to achieve his high leap, it does not suggest at all that this is the only way to do it.


AND ONE.


Got any links to papers?
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

$ick3nin.v3nd3tta

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 335
  • Respect: -14
    • View Profile
Re: T-DUBS biggest secret. Elastic winding & coiling.
« Reply #85 on: August 25, 2011, 12:45:49 am »
-1
Honestly, no.  I don't see much similarity to a high jumper jumping off one leg and the other video.  High jumpers have to turn their body cause they flop!  You do realize that right?.

I just find it interesting that both high jumpers & T-DUB plant around
btw michael jordan tongue wag is very relevant.. good point. that's what this whole thread reminds me of, michael jordan's tongue wag....... someone sees it, thinks it's some kind of incredible missing ingredient, then goes on a tear implementing it/trying to convince others to implement it. tyson gay sticks out his tongue while sprinting 100m's, maybe sprinters could improve by mimicking his tongue wag, which he obviously got from jordan.

it all makes 0 sense.

It's all to do with oral facial drivers which are said to be generators of hidden strength.


Original Link: http://www.google.com/search?q=oral+facial+drivers+hidden+strength&hl=en&biw=990&bih=577&num=10&lr=&ft=i&cr=&safe=images&tbs=

Tyson Gay also does something with his eyes.

I have also discovered a link between wide nostrils & speed which I don't think nobody else has discovered.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2011, 12:59:21 am by $ick3nin.v3nd3tta »

LanceSTS

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2255
  • Respect: +550
    • View Profile
    • http://www.youtube.com/user/LanceSTS
    • Email
Re: T-DUBS biggest secret. Elastic winding & coiling.
« Reply #86 on: August 25, 2011, 02:18:14 am »
0

I have also discovered a link between wide nostrils & speed which I don't think nobody else has discovered.



bwahahahaha, how can people not appreciate this!  sickninvendetta >


Relax.

adarqui

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 34034
  • who run it.
  • Respect: +9112
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: T-DUBS biggest secret. Elastic winding & coiling.
« Reply #87 on: August 25, 2011, 07:13:43 am »
0

I have also discovered a link between wide nostrils & speed which I don't think nobody else has discovered.



bwahahahaha, how can people not appreciate this!  sickninvendetta >




x2, i giggled like a little girl when i read that.

TKXII

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1255
  • Respect: -12
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: T-DUBS biggest secret. Elastic winding & coiling.
« Reply #88 on: August 25, 2011, 09:08:46 am »
0
No high jumper I've seen plants his foot perpendicular to the bar, none of these videos showed that. Sotomayor's foot was 30 degrees + of the bar
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

adarqui

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 34034
  • who run it.
  • Respect: +9112
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: T-DUBS biggest secret. Elastic winding & coiling.
« Reply #89 on: August 25, 2011, 09:23:29 am »
0
No high jumper I've seen plants his foot perpendicular to the bar, none of these videos showed that. Sotomayor's foot was 30 degrees + of the bar

http://www.adarq.org/forum/crazy-weird-analysis-stuff-)/galleries-high-jumpers/

perhaps our perception of perpendicular is different.. if the bar is north, the foot is pointing nearly west.