Author Topic: Strenght not correlating with jump....  (Read 18342 times)

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ruso15

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Strenght not correlating with jump....
« on: March 04, 2012, 04:51:58 pm »
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So my front squat is around 140 kgs (308 lb), my snatch is 62 kilograms(135lb), but my standing vertical is 28 inches.
acording to coolcolj's calculator my strengh doesnt correlates with my jump

So whats wrong? what can i do?
Does everybody's numbers  correlates with coolcolj's calculator predictions?

Dreyth

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Re: Strenght not correlating with jump....
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2012, 06:16:47 pm »
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Have you been practicing your jumps?

could you post a video of some of your jumps?
I'm LAKERS from The Vertical Summit

vag

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Re: Strenght not correlating with jump....
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2012, 05:46:36 am »
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ccj's calculator is not that accurate. It just gives you a general area where your VJ should be.
Every individual is different , your body leverages , bodyfat % , coordination and jumping efficiency are not included in that calculator.

Here's what kellyb says about it:

Quote
The basic idea is that for a given squat and bodyweight you SHOULD be able to jump a given height AS LONG AS your movement efficiency in the jump is up to par. If your current squat gives you a vertical jump forecast that is above your actual current jump height you know you need to work on transferring your squat strength into jump explosiveness better, thus you need more actual jump training and perhaps more explosive oriented training. If your VJ is even, or above, the forecasted VJ, you know your jumping efficiency is good, you're transferring your strength into explosiveness well, and should continue driving up your squat.

Note: The calculator works best if you're between 5'6 and 6'0 tall. Shorter folks tend to require slightly heavier squats for a given VJ and taller folks tend to require slightly less.

This calculator is not any scientific miracle , the formula is VJ = 16,75*( squat/bodyweight ). I don't know if that 16,75 is a ratio that worked accurately for ccj or if it is an average of some kind of study.
What i do know is that if you have a detailed log , go back to your data, see what VJ you had for each squat/bw ratio at times and find your own ratio so you can have your own personal calculator.

pc
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

LBSS

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Re: Strenght not correlating with jump....
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2012, 09:42:39 am »
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Have you been practicing your jumps?


this is the most important thing. i squat over 2xbw but my standing vertical is hilariously bad because i literally never practice it.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

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steven-miller

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Re: Strenght not correlating with jump....
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2012, 07:14:27 pm »
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So my front squat is around 140 kgs (308 lb), my snatch is 62 kilograms(135lb), but my standing vertical is 28 inches.
acording to coolcolj's calculator my strengh doesnt correlates with my jump

So whats wrong? what can i do?
Does everybody's numbers  correlates with coolcolj's calculator predictions?

One cannot meaningfully or otherwise determine a correlation between two characteristics of one person with only a single measurement of those characteristics. In order to determine whether a correlation exists or not one would have to compare multiple, varying data points of each characteristic.

Your snatch seems rather low for that front squat. How long have you been training it?

ruso15

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Re: Strenght not correlating with jump....
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2012, 09:10:22 pm »
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i havent trained my snatch pretty much. i prefer the jump squat right now im working with paused jump squats and depth jumps from 20 incn box.
i should also add my achilles injury, but after surgery im totally recovered from that, only thing is my right calf its a litle bit weaker.
maybe thats the problem lack of calf strength.

i will upload videos of my jump soon...
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 09:15:30 pm by ruso15 »

LanceSTS

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Re: Strenght not correlating with jump....
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2012, 09:25:05 pm »
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i havent trained my snatch pretty much. i prefer the jump squat right now im working with paused jump squats and depth jumps from 20 incn box.



  If what you prefer isnt working for you, try doing what you dont prefer.
Relax.

ruso15

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Re: Strenght not correlating with jump....
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2012, 09:33:23 pm »
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all right then i should add a video of my snatch so i can get some technicall asistance
couse my jump has been like this with a weaker squat there must be something i should do to get a few inches without increasing strength

Dreyth

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Re: Strenght not correlating with jump....
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2012, 09:53:24 pm »
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also add a video of some jumps!
I'm LAKERS from The Vertical Summit

LanceSTS

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Re: Strenght not correlating with jump....
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2012, 10:08:09 pm »
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all right then i should add a video of my snatch so i can get some technicall asistance
couse my jump has been like this with a weaker squat there must be something i should do to get a few inches without increasing strength


 Yes, good idea on the video.  The thing with using the power snatch is that it will help get more HIP extension into the jumping movement, the jump squats dont do this.  That could be something lacking or it might not be, but it definitely wont hurt to try it and see.
Relax.

TKXII

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Re: Strenght not correlating with jump....
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2012, 12:36:18 am »
-1


You are too far to the right. (edit: you are the heavy resistance trained line). Jump squats <50%, cleans, and depth jumps/pogos/broadjumps for 3 weeks. Deload for 1wk if necessary. Full ROM deep jump squats with 60-80% to maintain strength in all ROM, box squats, and continued depth jumps for another 3 weeks after a deload. You'll go up a few inches.
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

vag

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Re: Strenght not correlating with jump....
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2012, 05:38:06 am »
+3
I disagree with the analysis above. A few points:
1)While indeed an individual with lower limit strength may jump higher because of exactly what is shown ( the explosive trained one is stronger at the 0.2 seconds that a VJ takes place ) , we do NOT know ruso's curve.
2)This figure it evidently ( and imo deliberately ) wrong because the heavy resistance trained person's limit strength is ~20% bigger than the untrained one's and ~10% bigger than the explosive trained. Redraw the heavy resistance trained curve so that the peak strength is 2-3 times higher than the untrained force and put the explosive trained curve somewhere in the middle. Even at 0.2seconds the heavy resistance trained force will be higher than both others.
3)I hate that myth/obsession with ballistic training. Heavy resistance training is always made look like it's all about squatting power-lifting style with 8 seconds grinders, that is not the case. The truth is that lifting heavy for low reps while maintaining jumping efficiency will never fail. I don't bash explosive work , i implement it too , but it's just a helping tool , not the solution.
4) kingfish!!!
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

Raptor

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Re: Strenght not correlating with jump....
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2012, 06:41:33 am »
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This^^^

And

5) Raptor :-X
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

LBSS

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Re: Strenght not correlating with jump....
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2012, 10:10:42 am »
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You are too far to the right. (edit: you are the heavy resistance trained line). Jump squats <50%, cleans, and depth jumps/pogos/broadjumps for 3 weeks. Deload for 1wk if necessary. Full ROM deep jump squats with 60-80% to maintain strength in all ROM, box squats, and continued depth jumps for another 3 weeks after a deload. You'll go up a few inches.

asstarded, do not do this.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

Raptor

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Re: Strenght not correlating with jump....
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2012, 11:18:06 am »
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Yeah, use 1RM for jump squats. :highfive:
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps