Author Topic: Squat vs Deadlift. (Read 23820 times)

Raptor · « **Reply #15 on:** February 20, 2011, 12:22:10 pm »

Quote from: Kellyb on February 20, 2011, 12:11:34 pm

My doc said don't do deadlifts cuz my couzin blowed his back out doing them....now he's in a wheelchair.......he was taking cleatine too with deadlifts and the doc said his kidneys are almost blowed out too from it.....plus it made his temper really bad and he wanted to kick everybody's ass and creatin made him put some other guy in the hospital cuz he went off playin a pickup game..

now he has blowed out kidneys and blowed out back and he's only 16

dont' do deadlifts and cleatine braa11!!

Nice job hacking Kelly's account.

ANYWAY - I know a guy who had a displaced kidney due to some 80 inch depth drops. Really, no kidding.

LanceSTS · « **Reply #16 on:** February 20, 2011, 12:42:01 pm »

Quote from: Kellyb on February 20, 2011, 12:11:34 pm

My doc said don't do deadlifts cuz my couzin blowed his back out doing them....now he's in a wheelchair.......he was taking cleatine too with deadlifts and the doc said his kidneys are almost blowed out too from it.....plus it made his temper really bad and he wanted to kick everybody's ass and creatin made him put some other guy in the hospital cuz he went off playin a pickup game..

now he has blowed out kidneys and blowed out back and he's only 16

dont' do deadlifts and cleatine braa11!!

rofl!@! dead srs, about a month ago had a pm that asked, " I want to take creatine but I heard it will negatively affect penile growth."

Kellyb · « **Reply #17 on:** February 20, 2011, 01:04:45 pm »

hahaha..I believe you I wasn't making those things up I posted I've actually heard those exact comments. Another thing is most people will eventually experience back pain at one time or another and if they've ever done deadlifts in their life (no matter how long previous) they will then turn around and blame their pain on deadlifts, when in reality it's much more likely on account of their posture, excessive sitting in front of a computer, etc

Quote

I followed one of your programs for explosiveness last summer and into last fall, and when i did squat and deadlifts at a very high frequency, i progressed much much faster on deadlifts. At that time you told me it had something to do with my build. I do have long legs (especially thighs bones) and it makes squat extremely hard to progress without having to lean forward too much. In comparison, with the deadlift, i'm easily able to hit the hamstrings hard and i never had problems of using back at all, even to this day, the deadlift still makes my posterior chain sore for days on.

Recently, i trained with a friend who has a different build and he had trouble not using his back to deadlift. It was an easy thing to acertain as he was not sore WHATSOEVER in his legs in the following days.

So would you think that some people, especially those with long thigh bones/torso, might progress MORE mainly from deadlift as their main exercise over squat? Especially unilateral jumpers? I feel like the deadlifting motion (Hip extension) closely mimicks the angle during a SLRVJ and for me personally, has led to good improvements in that particular jumping technique.

Extremely tall or long legged people will often have trouble with the squat and for them the deadlift can be a suitable replacement. There are a lot of college basketball strength coaches that use deadlift variations in place of squats. Personally I'd rather use a bulgarian squat for these people but the dead can be a viable option, and, as you experienced, some people respond really well to it. For people that aren't suited for it (typical short armed stocky guys) it tends to beat them up pretty good.

Raptor · « **Reply #18 on:** February 20, 2011, 02:12:02 pm »

Kelly, what do you think about my DJs + deadlifts idea? DJs should take care of the quads+calves and deadlifts of the posterior chain. And yes, I'm aware of TUT and CNS differences between this and using squats, but still...

Obviously it depends on what you're aiming for (strength, mass etc), although these things depend on other factors as well (food, rest times etc) but as a general idea, do you think depth jumps + deadlifts can be a valid replacement for squats?

Kellyb · « **Reply #19 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:23:36 pm »

It's been done before. That's basically Barry Ross's program. A few plyos and deadlifts that's it. You can get results from it. Anything you do that causes your legs to work against progressive tension can illicit some gains. Hell you can get results from doing a leg press or squatflex too if your training age and level of progression vs your untrained state are low enough.

But for my money a squat variant is a better bang for the buck for most as it's inherently less back and more legs.

Squat variant + jump squat/hang snatch + depth jump/calf raise + reverse hyper/hip thrust= Best IMO

But the more you try to make something perfect and 100% optimal that more you're apt to screw yourself up more adding exercises and jacking with sets, reps, frequency etc. so a lot of people would be better off doing something simple like you propose as it inherently eliminates a lot of things they'd screw up doing the "perfect" program....

Raptor · « **Reply #20 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:43:05 pm »

I think you can do deadlifts with bar drops at the top while in-season, since they're going to be 100% concentric and will not create too much soreness. And since you're in-season you're going to have a lot of plyo so it's going to be plyo+deads.

BMully · « **Reply #21 on:** February 20, 2011, 05:12:45 pm »

Quote from: LanceSTS on February 20, 2011, 12:42:01 pm

Quote from: Kellyb on February 20, 2011, 12:11:34 pm
My doc said don't do deadlifts cuz my couzin blowed his back out doing them....now he's in a wheelchair.......he was taking cleatine too with deadlifts and the doc said his kidneys are almost blowed out too from it.....plus it made his temper really bad and he wanted to kick everybody's ass and creatin made him put some other guy in the hospital cuz he went off playin a pickup game..

now he has blowed out kidneys and blowed out back and he's only 16

dont' do deadlifts and cleatine braa11!!

rofl!@! dead srs, about a month ago had a pm that asked, " I want to take creatine but I heard it will negatively affect penile growth."

ppl think creatine is fucking steroids at school..They really think it works the same way in the football lockerroom.

cp3 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 20, 2011, 07:12:17 pm »

Quote from: Kellyb on February 20, 2011, 12:11:34 pm

My doc said don't do deadlifts cuz my couzin blowed his back out doing them....now he's in a wheelchair.......he was taking cleatine too with deadlifts and the doc said his kidneys are almost blowed out too from it.....plus it made his temper really bad and he wanted to kick everybody's ass and creatin made him put some other guy in the hospital cuz he went off playin a pickup game..

now he has blowed out kidneys and blowed out back and he's only 16

dont' do deadlifts and cleatine braa11!!

cuz my couzin blowed

stopped reading and strong cleatine

$ick3nin.vend3tta · « **Reply #23 on:** February 22, 2011, 05:13:57 am »

This study looked at eight different muscle sites calf, two quadriceps, two hamstrings, glutes, lower back and abs. Seven weightlifters took part in the study and where randomly assigned to either perform an Olympic squat (full squat high bar position) or conventional deadlift first (3 reps of their 6 repetition maximum (R.M). After a five minute rest they performed the protocol on the other exercise.

EMG data was collected during each exercise for all eight of the selected muscle groups.

What follows are graphs showing the magnitude in activation (using the root mean squared technique) comparing both exercises.

Results.

The deadlift showed a markedly greater level of activation in 5 out of the 8 muscles sampled. The deadlift also showed greater levels of activation in the VM which is counter-intuitive to say the least.

Conversely the squat showed higher levels of activation in the ST muscle which is also somewhat surprising since variations of the deadlift (namely stiff legged deadlifts have been shown to have up to 2x higher levels of activation in all hamstring musculature.

These garphs are a better barometer of total EMG data and not a good indicator of the timing of motor unit firing.

If you look at the GN the reason it comes out with a much larger RMS value is due to a prolonged time under tension and since the level of activation in both exercises is almost identical.

As far as lower back and abs are concerned the deadlift blew away the squat in the lowerback and edged it out in the abs department. Prior EMG studies have shown that squats and deadlift are superior to conventional abs exercises and instability training for the activation of the mid-section musculature.

Cliff notes

Deadlift superior in five out of eight muscles studied.

Calf muscles show higher levels of activation in the squat due to a higher time under tension.

Squat shows higher levels of activation in one quad and one hamstring studied and vice versa for the deadlift.

Deadlift shows far greater levels of activation in the glutes (3-4x plus).

Deadlifts show higher levels of activation in the midsection.

Result Deadlift via KO in round 1.

tychver · « **Reply #24 on:** February 22, 2011, 06:15:01 am »

Unforunately all that study shows is that they either used incorrect mechanics in the squat or didn't wire the EMG the glutes up right

Most other studies are showing at least equal and normally higher EMG activity in GM compared to BF during olympic squats.

$ick3nin.vend3tta · « **Reply #25 on:** February 22, 2011, 09:32:05 am »

Quote from: tychver on February 22, 2011, 06:15:01 am

Unforunately all that study shows is that they either used incorrect mechanics in the squat or didn't wire the EMG the glutes up right Most other studies are showing at least equal and normally higher EMG activity in GM compared to BF during olympic squats.

Original link: http://www.upstandingfuckingcitizens.com/showthread.php?t=39820

Raptor · « **Reply #26 on:** February 22, 2011, 09:36:08 am »

To me, the shocking news is the vastus medialis results. Doesn't make any sense.

tychver · « **Reply #27 on:** February 22, 2011, 03:04:00 pm »

Quote from: $ick3nin.vend3tta on February 22, 2011, 09:32:05 am

Quote from: tychver on February 22, 2011, 06:15:01 am
Unforunately all that study shows is that they either used incorrect mechanics in the squat or didn't wire the EMG the glutes up right Most other studies are showing at least equal and normally higher EMG activity in GM compared to BF during olympic squats.

Original link: http://www.upstandingfuckingcitizens.com/showthread.php?t=39820

http://edulife.com.br/dados%5CArtigos%5CEducacao%20Fisica%5CMuscula%C3%A7%C3%A3o%20e%20Condicionamento%20Fisico%5CThe%20Effect%20of%20Back%20Squat%20Depth%20on%20the%20EMG.pdf

Raptor · « **Reply #28 on:** February 22, 2011, 05:24:22 pm »

I've always wondered why are the glutes so important if they're not really activated unless you go very deep. I mean for jumping. If when you do a 1/4 squat you use mostly quads, and in a VJ you go into a 1/4 squat, shouldn't the recruitment be very similar (meaning - shouldn't the quads count very much and the glutes very little)?

tychver · « **Reply #29 on:** February 22, 2011, 05:36:16 pm »

Quote from: Raptor on February 22, 2011, 05:24:22 pm

I've always wondered why are the glutes so important if they're not really activated unless you go very deep. I mean for jumping. If when you do a 1/4 squat you use mostly quads, and in a VJ you go into a 1/4 squat, shouldn't the recruitment be very similar (meaning - shouldn't the quads count very much and the glutes very little)?

The glutes are significantly active in jumping. EMG study on depth jumps:

http://w4.ub.uni-konstanz.de/cpa/article/viewFile/1137/1025

Adarq.org

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Author Topic: Squat vs Deadlift. (Read 23820 times)

Raptor

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LanceSTS

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Kellyb

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Raptor

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Kellyb

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Raptor

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BMully

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cp3

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$ick3nin.vend3tta

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tychver

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$ick3nin.vend3tta

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Raptor

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tychver

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Raptor

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tychver

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