Adarq.org

i think those squats hit the glutes pretty good too, just neglect the hamstrings (especially since i always do reverse hypers or hip thrusts before to especially activate the glutes)


so what are you saying i should do to remedy it?

I never understood what "activation" has to do with this, maybe someone can clear this up. But from my understanding your technique determines whether or not a muscle works in a movement and not the other way round, i.e. the muscle gets "activated" through other exercises and thus fires regardless of technique. I don't want to say with this, that you should not do hip thrusts if they are beneficial to your strength btw.
Also saying fuck the hamstrings might work perfectly fine for now, but could become a problem later on. Relaxing of the hamstrings in the bottom position might cause problems with the hips as well as the knees. The reason is that relaxed hamstrings cannot counteract the anterior forces on the knees, but do so when they are under tension (this is the "stretch" ardaqui described).
I suggest you leave the weight over mid foot and initiate the movement as described with hips and knees breaking at the same time. You might find that this is also easier since the bar keeps its vertical path which I think is what ardaqui means with "go straight down bandwaggon". This should be easy to fix.

On the other hand, you could also do a Rippetoe style squat, which I came to like after doing high-bar for several months as well. But this thread might not be the right place to discuss the benefits or disadvantages of that...

Quote

ya, though, with my close stance + feet neutral + half squat, i get tons of hamstring.. people with shorter legs might have problems getting alot of hamstring in that style of squat, but then they'd be able to squat oly style with good form alot easier.. even so, I get most of my hamstring work from lunges and now pmghr's.. I always took that approach for the people I trained too, that's why i'm so big on unilaterals.. I never could understand how someone could neglect unilaterals anyway, they are so beneficial..

So ya, my formula would be, if you can't engage hamstrings too well in squat, with squat form being "pretty nice", I would:
- hit unilaterals hard
- hit ghr/hamstring isolation hard
- sprint hard

eventually they will become more active in squat regardless of form (to a point) simply from getting stronger.

peace!

Yeah that'll definitely work. I definitely didn't wanna make that sound like I think squats are all one needs for hamstrings. I consider some forms of glute hams or hip extensions a must.  I'm not sure of the hamstsring activation in the unilaterals though based on a book I have by bompa his EMG research doesn't rank them very high:

Biceps femoris (hamstring)
Standing leg curls --------------------------82%
Lying leg curls -----------------------------71
Seated leg curls ----------------------------58
Modified hamstring deads --------------------56

Semitendinosus (inner hamstring)
Seated leg curls ----------------------------88
Standing leg curls --------------------------79
Lying leg curls -----------------------------70
Modified hamstring deads --------------------63

So, based on that chart, training knee flexion will improve hip extension power? I am making this deduction based on the assumption that the hamstring deads are a hip extension dominant movement, and that, therefore, the knee flexion and hip extension exercises both activate the same muscles in the hamstring.

I have an open question about squat form. Should one pull arms under the bar, or keep them back and high? I have seen mixed opinions on this.

Quote from: Joe on July 26, 2010, 08:03:58 pm

pull arms under the back

What does this mean?

I mean "pull arm under the bar."

Quote from: Kellyb on July 22, 2010, 04:53:16 pm

Those are better than 90% of gym squats you'll see. I see what you're trying to do with the sitting back.  If you can do it correctly it is  a more efficient squat because it engages the hamstrings.  If you sit back correctly as you descend down you should feel your hamstrings being stretched like a rubber band. They'll help blast you out of the hole if you maintain that tension but if you stay upright and let your knees come forward you'll lose that. The problem with the upright squats and front squats is they effectively take the hamstrings out of the movement. That can be an advantage depending on what your after, but for general foundational lower body strength generally you want to target more musculature. The key IMO is staying away from the superwide powerlifitng squats and using an athletic stance and not leaning excessively forward with the upper body.

ya, though, with my close stance + feet neutral + half squat, i get tons of hamstring.. people with shorter legs might have problems getting alot of hamstring in that style of squat, but then they'd be able to squat oly style with good form alot easier.. even so, I get most of my hamstring work from lunges and now pmghr's.. I always took that approach for the people I trained too, that's why i'm so big on unilaterals.. I never could understand how someone could neglect unilaterals anyway, they are so beneficial..

So ya, my formula would be, if you can't engage hamstrings too well in squat, with squat form being "pretty nice", I would:
- hit unilaterals hard
- hit ghr/hamstring isolation hard
- sprint hard

eventually they will become more active in squat regardless of form (to a point) simply from getting stronger.

peace!

I know what you mean. Doing front squats, I'm not getting much hamstring DOMS per se, but half way up on the concentric I can feel my hamstrings straining like hell.  

Pretty similar to my squat half a decade ago. Any comments?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1u97NP-Ncko

^ yea just trying to get right to parallel for squats not below that. Need a little more depth it looks like

I bet you plant RL.