Author Topic: Posterior Chain Strength Preparation for the Vertical Jump by Charles Poliquin?.  (Read 34280 times)

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Raptor

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You also have to think like this:

How you can jump faster: with your bodyweight or with additional weight on you, like a weight vest or a barbell? So basically, improving your strength will make your bodyweight be a lower % of your max 1RM, and a lower percentage is easier to move/jump. Period.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

LBSS

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it depends on the athlete, but, in general, most people need "heavy explosive", since most people are weak.. always "as explosive as possible" with heavy weights.. max acceleration is a must, the descent can be controlled, but the transition from ecc to con has to be explosive as possible, accelerating all the way through to the top.. that's how you improve explosive strength to a greater degree than just lifting slow.

There was an interesting test I once read & it corresponds to guys I mentioned who lift light (Bruce Lee, Tyson Gay, Usain Bolt etc). Two groups were divided to perform squats. One group trained at a slow rate, and the other at a fast rate. The fast group took 2 seconds to perform each repetition, 1 second down and 1 second up. The slow group took 3x as long. Both groups were tested in their before and after abilities for broad jumping and the strength of the individual muscles of the legs. The fast group increased their power output in their hips and ankles more so than the slow group, and more significant was the improvement in fast group's broad jumping performance. The slower group did gain more overall strength, but the increase in power output was higher overall in the fast group.

Guys like Bruce Lee, Tyson Gay, Usain Bolt etc train primarily for power NOT mass or incredible strength.

What I'm trying to say is, would you better off going 1 second down and 1 second up (increased power output at the hips) as opposed to going "semi" heavy/heavy (more strength incremental based) lifts to increase your VJ?. So going to heavy seems to decrease your power output when squatting.

It's like when you want to increase the speed of your punches by throwing out weight plates. You have to use a weight that offers resistance but at the same time the speed factor is majorly important. You can't go too heavy because you bury the speed element (power).





Was the study done with the same amount of weight between groups? Because all other things being equal, I think the idea is that you should lift the weight as explosively as possible. If your squat 1RM is 400 lbs, then 385 is gonna go up slow and 225 is gonna go up fast. But both have their uses.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

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https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

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JayC

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Contrary to popular belief the quads only contribute 5% or less to the vertical jump.

I find this hard to believe.

Kelly bagget says that a 2 footed vertical jump is a quad dominant activity.

quads 5% of VJ LMFAO


where the hell is jack cascio when you need him.. same shit.

listen, i won't read anything anyone has to say on the matter of jumping if they believe quads are "5%" of vertical jump.

lmao @ 5% im still laughing.




here's my top exercises for vert:

1. improve squat (deep, half, pin, front, whatever) to 2.5-3.5xBW (the deeper you go, the closer you can be to "2.5x", the higher you go, the more you need to be 3-3.5x... sounds heavy dont it? STFU AND GET IT)
2. low bodyfat
3. jump alot (3-4x/week max)
4. incorporate reactive/rebounding exercises
5. maintain/improve fitness, never get out of shape
6. short maximal sprints
7. shitloads of caffeine on peaking days
8. improve calf strength under tension (calf raises)
9. extra glute/ham work (reverse hyper, glute bridges, 45deg hyper, lunges)
10. improve general upperbody strength, especially being able to perform various pullups very explosively
11. some sort of explosive arm swing exercise, could be hip dominant or not, ie plate swings, db swings, hang snatch, etc.
12. journal properly so you really know if you're progressing or not
13. get enough sleep prior to your jumping days (has to be enough in terms of not accumulating a sleep debt..)
14. incorporate level-7 techniques if needed lmzao.
15. learn how to harness pap/stim from heavy lifting to achieve better jump sessions 2 days later (after 1 day of rest)
16. eat properly the day before jumping, lots of good carbs/protein, for example, 10 bananas + small meals + some protein each meal. need full glycogen reserves but also don't want to be bogged down come jump day
17. don't eat TOO much on the day of jumping, eat light, keep food portions smaller to avoid carb/satiety fatigue... bottom line, you want to be hungry, you want to be pissed, you want to murder gravity, you can't be content.
18. don't masturbate or have sex prior to jumping/training, always after.
19. don't be a passive pussy when jumping/training, if you have a bad jump/set, fuck it, attack, it's life or death you don't quit like a pussy and let yourself be ravaged by a pack of hungry 9.8m/s^2's.
20. allow all of the above to make you more 'animalistic', we have become some sort of society drained spinoff human organism not capable of simply attacking the objective as if it were the only thing that matters at that moment for survival..
21. think about jumping when you are lifting weights, mind muscle link, you want that increased neural drive come jump time, so 'build a bridge between jumping and maximal heavy lifting'
22. warm up properly, it's important, progress gradually for 15-20 minutes until you're ready to START max jumping
23. michael jordan
24. think less, work harder
25. stop thinking the quads are unimportant
26. stop thinking the calfs are unimportant
27. start thinking the glutes are important
28. stop worrying about "instant inches techniques changes", this aint a high jump meet
29. never quit & i'll be 29 on august 16 2011.

ok there's my list..

peace ;F

You sure about number 18? Sports sciene had an episode on this "myth"  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDFelcPAe2s
"He can already play ball, run & dunk. 
He's already an accomplished athlete from what he's already doing."

Raptor

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I've always said nr 18 is true for a simple reason: if you watch wildlife, a male without a partner will always be aggressive and nervous - he just HAS to have a mate (or simply put - fuck someone/something). It's just the way life ensures it's cyclic nature/perpetuation. So basically, the longer you go without sex the more frustrated you are and the more rate coding benefits/CNS power you get.

It's like an energy boost. Your body/brain/whatever "needs" to have/find a partner and is willing to fight with another male to do it, so you become more aggressive. It definitely depends from person to person, some people will probably have to wait a longer period until they get into that teritorry.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

horton

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Contrary to popular belief the quads only contribute 5% or less to the vertical jump.

I find this hard to believe.

Kelly bagget says that a 2 footed vertical jump is a quad dominant activity.

quads 5% of VJ LMFAO


where the hell is jack cascio when you need him.. same shit.

listen, i won't read anything anyone has to say on the matter of jumping if they believe quads are "5%" of vertical jump.

lmao @ 5% im still laughing.




here's my top exercises for vert:

1. improve squat (deep, half, pin, front, whatever) to 2.5-3.5xBW (the deeper you go, the closer you can be to "2.5x", the higher you go, the more you need to be 3-3.5x... sounds heavy dont it? STFU AND GET IT)
2. low bodyfat
3. jump alot (3-4x/week max)
4. incorporate reactive/rebounding exercises
5. maintain/improve fitness, never get out of shape
6. short maximal sprints
7. shitloads of caffeine on peaking days
8. improve calf strength under tension (calf raises)
9. extra glute/ham work (reverse hyper, glute bridges, 45deg hyper, lunges)
10. improve general upperbody strength, especially being able to perform various pullups very explosively
11. some sort of explosive arm swing exercise, could be hip dominant or not, ie plate swings, db swings, hang snatch, etc.
12. journal properly so you really know if you're progressing or not
13. get enough sleep prior to your jumping days (has to be enough in terms of not accumulating a sleep debt..)
14. incorporate level-7 techniques if needed lmzao.
15. learn how to harness pap/stim from heavy lifting to achieve better jump sessions 2 days later (after 1 day of rest)
16. eat properly the day before jumping, lots of good carbs/protein, for example, 10 bananas + small meals + some protein each meal. need full glycogen reserves but also don't want to be bogged down come jump day
17. don't eat TOO much on the day of jumping, eat light, keep food portions smaller to avoid carb/satiety fatigue... bottom line, you want to be hungry, you want to be pissed, you want to murder gravity, you can't be content.
18. don't masturbate or have sex prior to jumping/training, always after.
19. don't be a passive pussy when jumping/training, if you have a bad jump/set, fuck it, attack, it's life or death you don't quit like a pussy and let yourself be ravaged by a pack of hungry 9.8m/s^2's.
20. allow all of the above to make you more 'animalistic', we have become some sort of society drained spinoff human organism not capable of simply attacking the objective as if it were the only thing that matters at that moment for survival..
21. think about jumping when you are lifting weights, mind muscle link, you want that increased neural drive come jump time, so 'build a bridge between jumping and maximal heavy lifting'
22. warm up properly, it's important, progress gradually for 15-20 minutes until you're ready to START max jumping
23. michael jordan
24. think less, work harder
25. stop thinking the quads are unimportant
26. stop thinking the calfs are unimportant
27. start thinking the glutes are important
28. stop worrying about "instant inches techniques changes", this aint a high jump meet
29. never quit & i'll be 29 on august 16 2011.

ok there's my list..

peace ;F

haha at #23. but i like this list man. Overall message = dont be a bitch, work hard and go get it

swatts

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You cant really say they dont/do contribute a certain percentage until you define the type of vertical jump that is being performed....


adarqui

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Contrary to popular belief the quads only contribute 5% or less to the vertical jump.

I find this hard to believe.

Kelly bagget says that a 2 footed vertical jump is a quad dominant activity.

quads 5% of VJ LMFAO


where the hell is jack cascio when you need him.. same shit.

listen, i won't read anything anyone has to say on the matter of jumping if they believe quads are "5%" of vertical jump.

lmao @ 5% im still laughing.




here's my top exercises for vert:

1. improve squat (deep, half, pin, front, whatever) to 2.5-3.5xBW (the deeper you go, the closer you can be to "2.5x", the higher you go, the more you need to be 3-3.5x... sounds heavy dont it? STFU AND GET IT)
2. low bodyfat
3. jump alot (3-4x/week max)
4. incorporate reactive/rebounding exercises
5. maintain/improve fitness, never get out of shape
6. short maximal sprints
7. shitloads of caffeine on peaking days
8. improve calf strength under tension (calf raises)
9. extra glute/ham work (reverse hyper, glute bridges, 45deg hyper, lunges)
10. improve general upperbody strength, especially being able to perform various pullups very explosively
11. some sort of explosive arm swing exercise, could be hip dominant or not, ie plate swings, db swings, hang snatch, etc.
12. journal properly so you really know if you're progressing or not
13. get enough sleep prior to your jumping days (has to be enough in terms of not accumulating a sleep debt..)
14. incorporate level-7 techniques if needed lmzao.
15. learn how to harness pap/stim from heavy lifting to achieve better jump sessions 2 days later (after 1 day of rest)
16. eat properly the day before jumping, lots of good carbs/protein, for example, 10 bananas + small meals + some protein each meal. need full glycogen reserves but also don't want to be bogged down come jump day
17. don't eat TOO much on the day of jumping, eat light, keep food portions smaller to avoid carb/satiety fatigue... bottom line, you want to be hungry, you want to be pissed, you want to murder gravity, you can't be content.
18. don't masturbate or have sex prior to jumping/training, always after.
19. don't be a passive pussy when jumping/training, if you have a bad jump/set, fuck it, attack, it's life or death you don't quit like a pussy and let yourself be ravaged by a pack of hungry 9.8m/s^2's.
20. allow all of the above to make you more 'animalistic', we have become some sort of society drained spinoff human organism not capable of simply attacking the objective as if it were the only thing that matters at that moment for survival..
21. think about jumping when you are lifting weights, mind muscle link, you want that increased neural drive come jump time, so 'build a bridge between jumping and maximal heavy lifting'
22. warm up properly, it's important, progress gradually for 15-20 minutes until you're ready to START max jumping
23. michael jordan
24. think less, work harder
25. stop thinking the quads are unimportant
26. stop thinking the calfs are unimportant
27. start thinking the glutes are important
28. stop worrying about "instant inches techniques changes", this aint a high jump meet
29. never quit & i'll be 29 on august 16 2011.

ok there's my list..

peace ;F

You sure about number 18? Sports sciene had an episode on this "myth"  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDFelcPAe2s

sport science is a really shitty show, but, beyond that, they didn't study before/after "VERT", they studied a winging punch, big difference.

an important factor to this "myth" is how people feel.. if someone tells me "i cant have sex before the fight or i feel weaker", then i'm not going to try in the least to persuade them otherwise.. it'll have a negative impact regardless of how it measures up physiologically..




I've always said nr 18 is true for a simple reason: if you watch wildlife, a male without a partner will always be aggressive and nervous - he just HAS to have a mate (or simply put - fuck someone/something). It's just the way life ensures it's cyclic nature/perpetuation. So basically, the longer you go without sex the more frustrated you are and the more rate coding benefits/CNS power you get.

It's like an energy boost. Your body/brain/whatever "needs" to have/find a partner and is willing to fight with another male to do it, so you become more aggressive. It definitely depends from person to person, some people will probably have to wait a longer period until they get into that teritorry.

excellent post..

a good example of this is, after lions mate the male will plop down and goto sleep.

the same can be said about food.. food & sex, or lack there of, make animals really pissed off.. after my dog humps my aunt's leg, he wants to relax. lmao... if you are really starving you will do pretty much anything to eat, murder no longer becomes an issue.

historically, humans didn't have "porn" for self arousal, so, it wasn't as easy to "become content" as it is now days.. the last thing you want is to feel "content" or some form of achievement prior to going out and trying to display maximal power/force.. achievement comes AFTER.. after the "kill is made", after strength/power is displayed maximally.. then it's time to be content.

to add to this excellent post by raptor, just look at this simple concept: "what happens generally, to men/women who get married?" ???? they get content.. overall, in life, they slack in terms of exercise & aggressiveness.. the persuit of a mate is no longer an issue, no longer to "ruffle ones feathers" to impress potential mates.. no need to display dominant traits when you have a partner for life.

mike tyson is psychotic but he's also a genius, he is basically an animal who can speak, he is that primal.. he speaks about alot of this in his own unique way.. it's worth listening to if you come across it, because in his prime, he was the most alpha human to ever step foot on this planet in terms of hand 2 hand combat.

peace





edit: when people ask me who my fav s&c coaches are, I say: "verkhoshansky, zatsiorsky, brooks kubik, and the animal kingdom".. we can learn alot from predators.. to become the most powerful athletes given our human potential, we have to truly become human (not our current mostly untapped content species) which at it's very nature is an incredible predator.. natural athletes can tap into this more than less gifted individuals, but the end result is all the same.. to completely display our true abilities without inhibition voluntarily (not involuntarily using fight or flight life or death situations).

adarqui

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You cant really say they dont/do contribute a certain percentage until you define the type of vertical jump that is being performed....



if it's vertical, quads contribute greatly.. the more horizontal the jump becomes, hamstring/glute contribution increases even further as the quad contribution decreases.. it is simply - that simple.

vertical jump -> broad jump -> long jump -> top speed sprinting
quad dominant                                             quad protective
ham protective                                             ham (+glute) dominant

swatts

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I was eluding to the variation in contribution during CM vs non CM jumping. 

Raptor

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That's absolutely correct adarqui.

It's interesting some vegetarians keep on talking about how we're supposed to be vegs, yet we have canines.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

Nightfly

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to add to this excellent post by raptor, just look at this simple concept: "what happens generally, to men/women who get married?" ???? they get content.. overall, in life, they slack in terms of exercise & aggressiveness.. the persuit of a mate is no longer an issue, no longer to "ruffle ones feathers" to impress potential mates.. no need to display dominant traits when you have a partner for life.


^^ That's really great. That's why i'm never happy, never content, whenever i have something i only want something more, i end up depressed some times but looking at the big picture, i'm always "hungry", always in need to prove what i have, what i achievede and only need to achieve even more so i can brag even more about it. I don't know what's better, being happy or being a beast, but i know for me and probably for you beast is better. Your post really motivates me.  :headbang:

Raptor

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Well yeah, it's the way we're made to be competitive and just go on and on in our evolution...
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

adarqui

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That's absolutely correct adarqui.

It's interesting some vegetarians keep on talking about how we're supposed to be vegs, yet we have canines.

canines are for lettuce bro! lmao

another good point






to add to this excellent post by raptor, just look at this simple concept: "what happens generally, to men/women who get married?" ???? they get content.. overall, in life, they slack in terms of exercise & aggressiveness.. the persuit of a mate is no longer an issue, no longer to "ruffle ones feathers" to impress potential mates.. no need to display dominant traits when you have a partner for life.


^^ That's really great. That's why i'm never happy, never content, whenever i have something i only want something more, i end up depressed some times but looking at the big picture, i'm always "hungry", always in need to prove what i have, what i achievede and only need to achieve even more so i can brag even more about it. I don't know what's better, being happy or being a beast, but i know for me and probably for you beast is better. Your post really motivates me.  :headbang:

i'm the same, i usually get "down on myself" AFTER PR's.. i'll be happy about PR then get pissed/depressed because I want more PR's.. just have to play the mind game at that point and stay on track.

i think it's just how we're wired.. when you're driven, you just can't be "completely happy" no matter how much progress you make.. you make progress (PR), you get happy, then you stagnate, you get mad/depressed slightly, then you get more angry, make more progress (PR), you get happy, then you stagnate, you get mad/depressed slightly, then you get more angry, make more progress (PR), you get happy, then you stagnate, you get mad/depressed slightly, then you get more angry, make more progress (PR), you get happy, then you stagnate, you get mad/depressed slightly, then you get more angry, make more progress (PR), you get happy, then you stagnate, you get mad/depressed slightly, then you get more angry, make more progress (PR), you get happy, then you stagnate, you get mad/depressed slightly, then you get more angry, ............ :)

so ya I think it's how a "driven individual" is wired.. just think about it, if you didn't get depressed while making all of this progress, you probably wouldn't have made all of that progress in the first place.. you would have been content making layups... so it's a cycle of reward/anger/need for more reward that keeps us hungry.

our drug of choice is PR'n vert/performance, so, just like any drug the effectiveness wears off over time and you need more of it.. we need to keep PR'n or we go through withdrawl :D

peace

ssr7

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18. don't masturbate or have sex prior to jumping/training, always after.
very true...i still lol'd

hennas87

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lmao i have zero hamstrings and all quads/glutes and its due to squatting and not deadlifting, and my svj and rvj (both 1 foot and 2 feet) have massively improved since I dropped deadlifting.

x2, i don't even think i have hamstrings..

:D

quadnation4lyfe.


does this mean that I am wasting my time doing deadlifts and romanian deadlifts to try and increase my vertical jump?
boomshakala