Author Topic: Plyos before strength training?  (Read 11946 times)

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Kellyb

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Re: Plyos before strength training?
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2011, 02:30:10 pm »
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The static dynamic method applied literally is more for weighted lifts:  For example, before a maximum bench press unrack a 120% 1rm load and hold it at lockout for a few seconds.  Before a maximum hang clean or snatch take a heavy weight and do a set of shrugs. I always had my best snatch and cleans doing that by a wide margin, but it doesn't work for everyone.  It'll work for squats too but you gotta be careful because the weight on the full range set will feel extremely light and there's a natural tendency to lose tightness.

For dynamic bodyweight movements I'd use isolation exercises with relatively light weight  for very short periods just to get certain muscle groups fired up better. For sprints something like lightly loaded reverse hyper hold for 7-10 seconds or iso extension iso hold followed by a set of short sprints a few minutes later. Same for bodweight hip flexor holds.

Raptor

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Re: Plyos before strength training?
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2011, 02:42:10 pm »
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What about a side plank? I always do that when I warm up for dunks... kind of stay in a "star" pose laterally (with the non-working arm and leg elevated) for about 20 seconds and I can feel my glutes come alive after that.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

adarqui

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Re: Plyos before strength training?
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2011, 05:59:33 pm »
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The static dynamic method applied literally is more for weighted lifts:  For example, before a maximum bench press unrack a 120% 1rm load and hold it at lockout for a few seconds.  Before a maximum hang clean or snatch take a heavy weight and do a set of shrugs. I always had my best snatch and cleans doing that by a wide margin, but it doesn't work for everyone.  It'll work for squats too but you gotta be careful because the weight on the full range set will feel extremely light and there's a natural tendency to lose tightness.

For dynamic bodyweight movements I'd use isolation exercises with relatively light weight  for very short periods just to get certain muscle groups fired up better. For sprints something like lightly loaded reverse hyper hold for 7-10 seconds or iso extension iso hold followed by a set of short sprints a few minutes later. Same for bodweight hip flexor holds.

ya i like half squat before sprints too.. always feel really good when i squat before sprinting.. it really shows in my current routine, since i'm doing multiple sessions per day usually.. if first session is squat, and then second session is sprint + squat, sprints feel so much better in that second session because of the stim i carry from the first.

if i had a back ext i'd definitely utilize iso-extension more, as a session before sprinting/jumping.. also, i actually love how i feel when i high rep squat in an early session and jump/sprint at night.. the only trick to that is, i can't really rest much between reps during the high rep squat, i just have to bang them out real quick, fatigue, and end the session.. if i stay strict with that, jumping feels great later that night.

the only thing to make my quads sore in the last ~6 months have been this 225 x 45 pin squat set i did, quads got WRECKED.. love it, they won't get wrecked like that again, but that's a good sign for quad-nation.








What about a side plank? I always do that when I warm up for dunks... kind of stay in a "star" pose laterally (with the non-working arm and leg elevated) for about 20 seconds and I can feel my glutes come alive after that.

single leg side plank? those are damn tough for glute-med/tfl.. i used to be able to do them so easy, havn't done them in a long time, last time i tried, really sucked at them, but that was a while ago.

prone rev hyper (bodyweight) makes me feel real good when jumping too.. and i'm liking these leg-extension TKE's too.. it's helped to get my VMO firing properly, very fast.. i had a major firing issue over the last few weeks, but after 2-3 tke-iso sessions, contracting maximally, seems to be firing almost normal.

pC

Raptor

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Re: Plyos before strength training?
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2011, 06:24:44 pm »
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What about a side plank? I always do that when I warm up for dunks... kind of stay in a "star" pose laterally (with the non-working arm and leg elevated) for about 20 seconds and I can feel my glutes come alive after that.

single leg side plank? those are damn tough for glute-med/tfl.. i used to be able to do them so easy, havn't done them in a long time, last time i tried, really sucked at them, but that was a while ago.

prone rev hyper (bodyweight) makes me feel real good when jumping too.. and i'm liking these leg-extension TKE's too.. it's helped to get my VMO firing properly, very fast.. i had a major firing issue over the last few weeks, but after 2-3 tke-iso sessions, contracting maximally, seems to be firing almost normal.

pC


Yeah the single leg side planks. I'm pretty good at them, I think I MIGHT be able to hold one for one minute. I usually hold it for 30 s and it's pretty hard.

How do you do iso tkes?
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

adarqui

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Re: Plyos before strength training?
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2011, 06:46:44 pm »
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What about a side plank? I always do that when I warm up for dunks... kind of stay in a "star" pose laterally (with the non-working arm and leg elevated) for about 20 seconds and I can feel my glutes come alive after that.

single leg side plank? those are damn tough for glute-med/tfl.. i used to be able to do them so easy, havn't done them in a long time, last time i tried, really sucked at them, but that was a while ago.

prone rev hyper (bodyweight) makes me feel real good when jumping too.. and i'm liking these leg-extension TKE's too.. it's helped to get my VMO firing properly, very fast.. i had a major firing issue over the last few weeks, but after 2-3 tke-iso sessions, contracting maximally, seems to be firing almost normal.

pC


Yeah the single leg side planks. I'm pretty good at them, I think I MIGHT be able to hold one for one minute. I usually hold it for 30 s and it's pretty hard.

cool ya, that's a great exercise


Quote
How do you do iso tkes?

just sit on a bed, lean back, put my hands on the bed, and extend my knees very hard.. really focus on firing vmo, hold it for time.. try to minimize any relaxing of the muscle etc.. try to go around 1-3 minutes, ~3 sets or so.. then go walk around, should feel really good.. just got to be careful with it though, even though it gets vmo firing better, it can put some stress on ham tendons or the knee in general.. so far i've felt great from it though.

pc

Raptor

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Re: Plyos before strength training?
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2011, 07:35:05 pm »
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Haha, I just did one set of ~1:30 minutes... it really feels... I don't know... it feels like I can squat 200 kg. I mean, sudden strength. I should do this stuff, especially as I never get my VMOs to fire no matter what I do.

Maybe I should try this stuff in the gym using the leg extensions machine and the lowest possible weight (5 kg or whatever).

PS. As I get tired, I can feel the VMO is half of my left quad, but for the right quad, I feel like the VMO is 1/10 of the quad mass.

Man that right VMO sucks like you can't believe... so small and weird, no wonder my right knee has problems.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2011, 07:37:53 pm by Raptor »
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

adarqui

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Re: Plyos before strength training?
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2011, 07:42:45 pm »
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Haha, I just did one set of ~1:30 minutes... it really feels... I don't know... it feels like I can squat 200 kg. I mean, sudden strength. I should do this stuff, especially as I never get my VMOs to fire no matter what I do.

yup, it'll help.. and ya legs feel amazing after doing it.



Quote
Maybe I should try this stuff in the gym using the leg extensions machine and the lowest possible weight (5 kg or whatever).

nah, if you use leg extension in gym, rep out last 15 deg of extension.. so, put it on like 20-30 lb at first, and, go down slow, then extend COMPLETELY, working on firing vmo really hard.. rep it out for 20-30 reps.

if you do the weightless one, just hold it for time and focus on firing the vmo while in complete extension.





Quote
PS. As I get tired, I can feel the VMO is half of my left quad, but for the right quad, I feel like the VMO is 1/10 of the quad mass.

Man that right VMO sucks like you can't believe... so small and weird, no wonder my right knee has problems.

yup............. same thing for leonel, his weaker knee had underdeveloped vmo.. tke's are pretty important, vmo really protects the knee from so many patella issues.

glad you liked the exercise, incorporate it now, and stay consistent with it.

pC!

Raptor

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Re: Plyos before strength training?
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2011, 07:49:29 pm »
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Well yeah, you better believe I will! Any more ideas on how to develop the VMO without putting too much strain on the knee itself? Because probably 1/4 squats are great for that, but, you know, they kind of put pressure on the knee. Except maybe if I go high rep with a low weight. Say 1/4 high bar squats with 50 kg.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

Raptor

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Re: Plyos before strength training?
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2011, 08:21:38 pm »
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That's more of a hip flexor iso
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

adarqui

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Re: Plyos before strength training?
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2011, 08:36:58 pm »
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Well yeah, you better believe I will! Any more ideas on how to develop the VMO without putting too much strain on the knee itself? Because probably 1/4 squats are great for that, but, you know, they kind of put pressure on the knee. Except maybe if I go high rep with a low weight. Say 1/4 high bar squats with 50 kg.

well, 1/4th squats could actually shut down the vmo, when the weight gets real heavy.. if VL takes over to extend, you'll have problems.. and most people aren't completely locking out their knees with such heavy weight on their backs.. so sure it could develop the vmo, but, firing issues can occur, that's why tke's are so important.

as for developing vmo, high rep half squatting nails mine.. sure you could develop it just the same deep etc.. but high reps really gets my vmo's sore at times, nothing else really does.. for developing vmo hypertrophy wise, same principle applies, progressive overload with full or half squats.. the more load you add to the bar over time, the more it'll grow

i love leg extension tke repouts and this non-loaded tke iso for time, for activation issues.. it'll cause some growth initially, but more importantly, it'll get vmo stronger/firing better, if that happens, jumps/squat etc should improve, which will increase potential for mass gain.

pC








Do iso tkes do anything for the quadriceps tendon?, or is it just for the VMO muscle?.


Also, is this how you perform them adarqui?.




nah that would tire out quads/illiopsoas/abs more before tiring out vmo.. for what im talking about, just picture a leg extension, without any machine, so sitting down on a bed, extending knees close to maximally, and maintaining that for time.

peace

$ick3nin.vend3tta

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Re: Plyos before strength training?
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2011, 08:41:13 pm »
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nah that would tire out quads/illiopsoas/abs more before tiring out vmo.. for what im talking about, just picture a leg extension, without any machine, so sitting down on a bed, extending knees close to maximally, and maintaining that for time.

It's just that you said: sit on a bed, lean back, put my hands on the bed, and extend my knees very hard.

When you talk about leaning back, are you talking about laying down on the bed?. or just sat in an upright seating position?.

adarqui

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Re: Plyos before strength training?
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2011, 08:42:29 pm »
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nah that would tire out quads/illiopsoas/abs more before tiring out vmo.. for what im talking about, just picture a leg extension, without any machine, so sitting down on a bed, extending knees close to maximally, and maintaining that for time.

It's just that you said: sit on a bed, lean back, put my hands on the bed, and extend my knees very hard.

When you talk about leaning back, are you talking about laying down on the bed?. or just sat in an upright seating position?.

right, leaning back but still sitting up.. just a slight lean backwards with hands bracing on bed.. too much lean forward seems to hit my hip flexors too hard.

pc

adarqui

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Re: Plyos before strength training?
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2011, 08:54:35 pm »
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as for the tke unloaded iso 'on bed', i do them sitting up also, like im doing right now as i forum.. so ya, whatever, lock em out "maximally" for time :F

$ick3nin.vend3tta

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Re: Plyos before strength training?
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2011, 09:16:54 pm »
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as for the tke unloaded iso 'on bed', i do them sitting up also, like im doing right now as i forum.. so ya, whatever, lock em out "maximally" for time :F

What about progressive overload?, such as ankle weights?.

Any benefit?, or detrimental?.

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Re: Plyos before strength training?
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2011, 09:35:02 pm »
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as for the tke unloaded iso 'on bed', i do them sitting up also, like im doing right now as i forum.. so ya, whatever, lock em out "maximally" for time :F

What about progressive overload?, such as ankle weights?.

Any benefit?, or detrimental?.

if you were going to overload the leg-ext-tke-iso, i'd do it in a leg extension eventually.. ankle weights could be a small build up. no-extra weight works fine though in terms of 'activation/firing patterns'.. like i said earlier, i personally would rep out with leg ext tke, and stay unloaded for the leg ext tke ISO.. that's personal preference AND how I think it should be done.. if you are going to add load to the leg ext tke ISO, i'd make sure you do the same for some kind of hip extension iso (iso extension stim style, or prone rev hyper etc)

pc