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I use to do plyo days separate from strength training days

I read, that many say if you were to do both on the same day, to do plyos first before strength
What about complex training?
That would be strength first then plyos after, and many do complex training. Squat / depth jumps

Why is complex training ok, but not do 3 sets of squats first, then 3 sets of plyos after?

Don't get two things confused (and Raptor's post did not exactly help here). There is strength training and there is the usage of techniques that are supposed to be stimulating your nervous system (STIM) so that power output can increase.

Doing 3 sets of squats with high intensity as well as volume (say >3 reps) and doing plyos after is a terrible idea. Doing plyos first would be better. Doing 5 heavy squat singles and continue with jumps or something similar is possible. Whether this would actually potentiate your explosive movements in the same session I tend to doubt, but it is at least not terribly stupid (like the first example) and it might work for a certain population of athletes. The latter is what you call complex training.

The focus is on delivering maximum strength in minimum time.

eek, there's a time and place for that stuff, but every session? sounds like a great way to screw yourself up.. depth jumps themselves are risky, but after heavy lifting -> very risky, if the muscles are fatigued at all, you can greatly increase the risk of injury to the joint surface & tendons.. if someone is going to depth jump/bound after lifting, they better have a ton of experience and be in excellent shape/100% healthy/well versed in those exercises.

Don't get two things confused (and Raptor's post did not exactly help here). There is strength training and there is the usage of techniques that are supposed to be stimulating your nervous system (STIM) so that power output can increase.

Doing 3 sets of squats with high intensity as well as volume (say >3 reps) and doing plyos after is a terrible idea. Doing plyos first would be better. Doing 5 heavy squat singles and continue with jumps or something similar is possible. Whether this would actually potentiate your explosive movements in the same session I tend to doubt, but it is at least not terribly stupid (like the first example) and it might work for a certain population of athletes. The latter is what you call complex training.

x2

plyos before strength training is fine, because one of the key concepts of true plyo/explosive work is to not train through fatigue + use optimal rest intervals between sets (complete recovery).. i've never had a problem with incorporating plyo/reactive/explosive work prior to squatting, with myself or people i've trained, in fact it usually helps the lifts that follow.

as for complex training, you really have to know what you're doing before you go that route.. for beginners and less experienced intermediate's, it's a horrible idea.. for advanced athletes it can be used effectively.. look at the verkhoshansky blog in performance blog section to see what some true complex training looks like.. search that blog article/notes for "Complex Method" or "Stim Method" etc.

if you at all lack the preparedness to perform ballistic/explosive work following heavy lifting, consider tendonitis an issue that will occur very shortly after incorporating that style of training.

so if you do plyo/ballistic/explosive work before lifting, just make sure you recovery optimally between sets, and don't train until your legs are jello, quantity over quality, then transition right into your heavy resistance training.

pc

eek, there's a time and place for that stuff, but every session? sounds like a great way to screw yourself up.. depth jumps themselves are risky, but after heavy lifting -> very risky, if the muscles are fatigued at all, you can greatly increase the risk of injury to the joint surface & tendons.. if someone is going to depth jump/bound after lifting, they better have a ton of experience and be in excellent shape/100% healthy/well versed in those exercises.

I have used Ross's method for quite sometime (injury free), only I have changed it up a little. Instead of depth jumps I use the burnouts plyo from the Air alert program after each set of deads.

What you may find (I find it all the time) is that your super explosive performing the burnouts after each set of deads as opposed to prior, hence  maximum strength (deadlifting)/minimum time (burnouts).

I perform depth jumps in a different workout.

The Barry Ross system for training is minimalist to the extreme and has a few interesting points to it. I think when I read the book he talked about never doing more than 10 total reps of the deadlift per session and also to drop the bar after each rep (no eccentric) to reduce muscle soreness. He also talked about doing zero warm up sets and just getting straight into the heavy lifting which I thought was a bit dangerous.

Back to the topic at hand whether or not you do strength work after plyos or before will depend on a bunch of factors including the focus of your current training block, and also the intensity and volume of each. Both of the last two things are easily adjusted to make the program more suitable and safe in achieving the desired goal.

I think overdoing on the isos can mess up your proprioceptive awareness if you do them before dynamic things (like playing your sports).

That's also static stretching shouldn't really be done. I for one, whenever I do static stretching, I'm not actually relaxing but staying very stiff and contracted to be able to maintain that position. If I were to relax my body would move/limbs move/lose the stretch. So that's basically an iso that messes up with your proprioceptive awareness.

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/complex.htm < About complex training

the keyword is "combo".. most people who get obsessed with isos start utilizing them entirely, because "regular lifts promote deceleration" and all of that retarded bullshit.

4 sho.

All this ISO stuff I have been barking on about has to include so form of dynamic work. Isometric work, in and of itself, will not transfer well to dynamic work. You need to 'teach' the body to utilize the new isometric strength dynamically.

Soviet research, dating back to the sixties of the 20th century, points out that isometric training coming before dynamic work may increase its effectiveness by up to 20%. This is called the "immediate after effect" of isometric training. Use of isometric holding exercises and dynamic repetitions are the way forward. When the reverse sequence of training was tested (dynamic work preceding isometric work), results actually deteriorated. According to Mel Siff's "Supertraining", the after effect occurs immediately after the preliminary isometric tension. Strength continues to increase and peaks between the 10th to 20th minute.