Author Topic: Planning my training ahead (Read 14301 times)

steven-miller · « **Reply #15 on:** October 22, 2010, 05:22:59 am »

Quote from: Raptor on October 21, 2010, 05:32:55 pm

So you guys are suggesting sets of 5 instead of sets of 8?

I'll consider that. I'll work for a while with the what I have planned for now, and observing what is going on, I might adjust it. I have like 4-5 months of strength training planned if no injuries occur, so that's plenty of time to change stuff it I need to.

Do you really think a 3x5 is enough stimuli for good hypertrophy to occur (if the food intake is right)? I'm more into hypertrophy than strength as my target right now, I want to switch to a more strength-focused rep range later (4-6).

See, that type of periodization is what I don't understand for someone with your levels of strength. It is unnecessary complicated for a beginner- intermediate, especially in face of the fact that hypertrophy and strength go hand in hand. I never in my whole training life did more than 5 reps as a work set and I have thigh circumferences somewhat over 24". Regardless of hypertrophy or strength as a primary goal - mid to long term you are better off with 5s at this point in time. You can use higher volume for hypertrophy once you manage appreciable weights IMO. That is if you are into bodybuilding now.

Raptor · « **Reply #16 on:** October 22, 2010, 05:45:29 am »

Yeah but your genetic is much better than mine in terms of strength gains. You increase your squat by 100 lbs in 2 days and say it's "normal stuff". So probably, regardless what you'd do, you'd still gain much faster than me.

I don't know, 3x5 sound like way too low of a volume, only 15 reps, for someone that doesn't play or do anything else in this period of time except lifting. 5x5 could be pretty good though.

steven-miller · « **Reply #17 on:** October 22, 2010, 09:05:22 am »

You do what you want to do. But regarding my progress being something extraordinary - It certainly is not. Several months ago I started a thread on startingstrength.com asking for those who finished SS the way it is supposed to be done (utilizing 3 x 5 for squats, eating enough etc.) to post their final numbers. If you look at the answers in that thread and exclude those who got injured for some reasons (or have been injured already when they started the program using it as "rehab") you are getting a pretty consistent picture of guys finishing the linear progression typically between 300 lbs and > 400 lbs for sets of 5.
Rippetoe himself says that 325 lbs for 3 x 5 after 6 months is typical for a young male that started as a complete novice, meaning that lay-offs, small injuries, resets, canceled work-outs due to other obligations are already calculated in. So under optimal conditions more is possible. I finished at 402 lbs x 5 x 3 - a little higher than Rippetoe's norm - but if you take into account the correct reference population (male, 5'10, early 20s, competitive athlete in a non-weightlifting sport) this is probably rather usual. In that thread I talked about there were several guys who got a lot stronger than me purely on 3 x 5 squats 3 times per week. Here is the link: http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/showthread.php?t=17900

Again, you do what you like to do and 5 x 5 will probably work fine if you do that once a week and squat at least another time during the week with a different volume and intensity (lower volume for sure, but I am not sure what intensity would work best in your scenario). But that approach is not as efficient and I doubt that you will get more hypertrophy this way. That is because hypertrophy follows strength and you will get stronger faster with 3 x 5 until you are not a novice anymore. Period.

LBSS · « **Reply #18 on:** October 22, 2010, 09:26:38 am »

Quote from: Raptor on October 22, 2010, 05:45:29 am

Yeah but your genetic is much better than mine in terms of strength gains. You increase your squat by 100 lbs in 2 days and say it's "normal stuff". So probably, regardless what you'd do, you'd still gain much faster than me.

I don't know, 3x5 sound like way too low of a volume, only 15 reps, for someone that doesn't play or do anything else in this period of time except lifting. 5x5 could be pretty good though.

3x5 is not too low a volume to start out with for the major exercises. If you're eating enough calories and getting enough protein, you'll grow on that for sure. But again, what I think we're both saying is that you don't need to think so hard. Pick a rep range (3x5 or 5x5 or 3x8 or whatever you want) and a couple of major exercises and just progress on those. For example:

Workout A
squat 3x5
dead lift 1x5
bench 3x5
row 3x8
weighted crunch 3x15

Workout B
power clean 3x5
squat 3x5
BSS 3x10/each
overhead press 3x5
chin up 3x8
hanging leg raise 3x15

ABABABABABABABABABABABABABABABABAB until you stop progressing. If you want to do some assistance (e.g. calves or arms), just throw on a couple sets of 12 reps at the end, or even one set of 15. If you want to keep doing some jumps/sprints/plyos, throw them in after your warm up and before the lifts, but keep volume and relative intensity low (no depth jumps).

EDIT: Added power cleans.

steven-miller · « **Reply #19 on:** October 22, 2010, 10:58:28 am »

He will need the powercleans...

Raptor · « **Reply #20 on:** October 23, 2010, 03:59:01 am »

Well in that layout, the squats are followed by deadlifts and the powercleans are followed by squats AND BSS. That's not good in my eyes at all.

Back when I was doing a modified starting strength I was using this:

squat + bench + reverse lunge + pullups/chinups A1

BSS + deadlift/powerclean + overhead press + pullups/chinups B1/B2

squat + incline + one-leg RDL + pullups/chinups A2

The thing is - I kind of want to go to the gym 5 days a week... keep the workouts short and intense. I also want to use 3x8 primarily at this point in time, and then maybe after a month or so of 3x8 go to 5 rep range schemes. But as of now I'm using 3x8 for the squat and 4x10 for the bench. It builds mental strength and confidence and when I switch back to lower reps I can go better with lower reps. The point of the potentiation&rest week is exactly that. I don't feel I'm overcomplicating anything at all.

I'm also not going to give up on 1-leg RDLs because I love them and they work my glutes so so well, and an unilateral lift is absolutely needed (I want to do unilateral stuff) in each of my squat sessions.

So right now I'm going with squat 3x8 + unilateral hip dominated exercise++leg curls (supersetted with leg curls) and an upperbody lift (usually back stuff and/or shoulders since I have 5 year old girl shoulder strength).

So:

Squat + One-leg RDL++leg curls A1
Squat + Lunge++leg curls A2

For upperbody:

Bench + Triceps pulldowns/dips + back stuff&shoulders B1 and B2 (2x a week bench press)

Optional 5th workout (C):

Jumpsquat/powerclean + BSS + overhead press

So a week is: A1 - B1 - rest - A2 - B2 - C - rest

Again, this only for a month or so. After this I'll probably go more conservative and go with more of a starting strength approach like the one I layed out at the top of this post.

Raptor · « **Reply #21 on:** October 23, 2010, 04:57:47 pm »

Quote from: adarqui on October 14, 2010, 08:07:03 am

will check this out tmw, forgot to read it ! its in my todo list tab tho

pc

Um... right...

Adarq.org

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Author Topic: Planning my training ahead (Read 14301 times)

steven-miller

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