Author Topic: NBA Players Training  (Read 31180 times)

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aiir

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Re: NBA Players Training
« Reply #60 on: July 26, 2011, 06:57:21 pm »
0
Take the strongest guy in the NBA.

Is he better than Kobe?.

when is this question mentioned in OP?

is Kobe with +100lb on squat/DL, +100lb on bench/press a better athlete then he is right now, assuming his fat%, etc are the same?
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 Like you really work that hard, to stay the same."
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Raptor

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Re: NBA Players Training
« Reply #61 on: July 26, 2011, 07:08:18 pm »
0
Hey sickening, I'm the boss of an NBA team and you're my hired trainer.

And I'm not happy with my white and weak (1x squat) white rookie I just drafted and I want to get him quicker (note - I haven't said stronger). I want him to run a bit faster. Faster than retired center Greg Ostertag. He beats my guy in a 30m footrace.

Here's Greg:



Greg's a bit old now at 40+, but still, he kicks my guy's ass.

So how are you going about into making my rookie player faster? What are you going to do? The deadline is one year.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

aiir

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Re: NBA Players Training
« Reply #62 on: July 26, 2011, 08:38:05 pm »
0
So how are you going about into making my rookie player faster? What are you going to do? The deadline is one year.


I would want him him to increase his relative strength/lower bodymass. I have always found the lighter I am, the faster I can accelerate.
Run bunches of 10m/20m/30m/40m/50m sprints & work on his flexibility.
Hit the entire posterior chain, mainly the glutes (horizontal muscle fibers),  increasing strength, overcoming inertia far easier, while not adding on mass.
The calves (achilles tendon)/shins can provide an additional 20% to 25% of the power needed for an explosive start putting emphasis on plantarflexion/ankle-joint extension strength/exercises. Work on isolated foot strengthening exercises (advanced). Plyo's. Tell him to wear Vibram 5 fingers everywhere.
Getting his hip flexors & arm action to be as explosive as possible & work in coordination with each other. Anyone on court who has both those firing will have insane first step explosion.
Increase core stability as the inner core (generator/power) fires before the extremities (legs/arms) which is crucial to help build & transfer power from the core to the arms. It is clear that explosive leg movements are predetermined by explosive arm movements. Faster you move your arms, the faster the legs will follow. Core is vital to powerful arm action.

Practice relaxation & sound running technique. The more muscle relaxed, the greater the muscle contraction, the faster the body will move.

You know I could get into some real advanced stuff involving the use of the head, counter-rotation of the upper-lowerbody (increases elasticity), using your spinal engine, using the spine as whip like a cheetah, spiralling techniques, breathing techniques which increase acceleration/power etc... Not gonna go there.


...and what are you going to tell him to use/do to improve this? ;)
Log

"Everybody look at you strange, say you changed -
 Like you really work that hard, to stay the same."
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adarqui

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Re: NBA Players Training
« Reply #63 on: July 26, 2011, 08:44:54 pm »
+2
You guys are overrating squatting.

It ain't all that.

you are UNDERRATING the squat, as a test, not an exercise.. it is simply a test of how much force you can produce bilaterally in that movement, which takes a very small amount of time to learn, so it is a great test to assess lower body strength..

you simply fail to understand that if one can squat 1.5xBW vs 2.5xBW, 2.5xBW has far more potential to excel athletically.

it's all about producing force.. someone squatting 1.5xBW vs 2.5xBW, all things the same (conditioning/skill etc), 2.5xBW will destroy 1.5xBW in tests of power/speed.

since you're infatuated with core strength, 2.5xBW squat requires far more core strength than 1.5xBW squat.

relative strength going up with the same rep speed yields gains in athleticism.. there's no such thing as relative strength improvements in a bosu ball single leg squat, or a MR btl medball exercise.



Quote
Squatting 2.5BW doesn't make you elite.

duh

but what does not being able to squat 2.5xBW make you?

weak.










it is a key factor to producing the force output required to become elite.

Yeah but there's so much more to becoming a complete player/athlete than squatting.


Mark my words, my man adarqui won't reach his goal of 47' through squatting alone. He will just plateau out at 40'.




i hate when people use that as an example...

you're looking at someone who is trying to go from 27" RVJ to 47" RVJ, not 38" RVJ to 47" RVJ......... 27 to 47.. legit 20" gain is basically unheard of, it's extremely rare.. 27" to 40" was relatively "easy".. 40 to 47" will be astronomical, and it requires me to be able to produce 3x+BW half squat, that which my body cannot handle right now without breaking down, and plus im nearing 30.

again, it's easy for you to say something as simple as this: "Mark my words, my man adarqui won't reach his goal of 47' through squatting alone. He will just plateau out at 40'."

that's easy to say.. what you want me to do, pull back on the pedal stroke? will that get me from 40 to 47?

what will get me to 47?

explain in detail what i need to do to reach 47" RVJ, thanks.


if i lack the strength to be able to produce a 47" RVJ, how am I going to achieve 47? through magic?



Quote

He's need to do other things man, work on different area's then his gains will increase much quicker.

right, because there's such thing as "quick gains" after you've gained ~13" on your running vert.. maybe I should buy the instant inches program from linkenauger.. i need 7 instant inches to get from 40 to 47.

adarqui

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Re: NBA Players Training
« Reply #64 on: July 26, 2011, 08:51:15 pm »
0
So how are you going about into making my rookie player faster? What are you going to do? The deadline is one year.


I would want him him to increase his relative strength/lower bodymass.

what do you think i've been doing for the last 6 months?

405 pin squat @ 150.



Quote
I have always found the lighter I am, the faster I can accelerate.
Run bunches of 10m/20m/30m/40m/50m sprints & work on his flexibility.

i stopped running sprints, i stretch multiple times per day, i can easily bring heel to butt and get chest to knee on standing hamstring stretches.. i agree i should be running more short sprints.



Quote
Hit the entire posterior chain, mainly the glutes (horizontal muscle fibers),  increasing strength, overcoming inertia far easier, while not adding on mass.

i hit my glutes through half squatting, hypers, glute bridges, reverse hypers...





Quote
The calves (achilles tendon)/shins can provide an additional 20% to 25% of the power needed for an explosive start putting emphasis on plantarflexion/ankle-joint extension strength/exercises. Work on isolated foot strengthening exercises (advanced). Plyo's.

i'm Mr. Reactive work, i'm always doing MR halftucks/pogos/double leg bounds etc.. I do tons of calve raises, bodyweight or barbell.


Quote
Tell him to wear Vibram 5 fingers everywhere.

i wear nike zoom waffle racers, they are better than vibrams for developing the feet.




Quote
Getting his hip flexors & arm action to be as explosive as possible & work in coordination with each other. Anyone on court who has both those firing will have insane first step explosion.

i don't work my hip flexors, but i do plate swings for arm swing.




Quote
Increase core stability as the inner core (generator/power) fires before the extremities (legs/arms) which is crucial to help build & transfer power from the core to the arms. It is clear that explosive leg movements are predetermined by explosive arm movements. Faster you move your arms, the faster the legs will follow. Core is vital to powerful arm action.

direct core work is overrated, i get enough core work through all of the other crap i do.

i do plate swings/bodyweight upper for arm swing/shoulder power.




Quote
Practice relaxation & sound running technique. The more muscle relaxed, the greater the muscle contraction, the faster the body will move.

uh what....




Quote
You know I could get into some real advanced stuff involving the use of the head, counter-rotation of the upper-lowerbody (increases elasticity), using your spinal engine, using the spine as whip like a cheetah, spiralling techniques, breathing techniques which increase acceleration/power etc... Not gonna go there.

please don't, our heads will explode.....

thanks for the advice though, perhaps now i will reach 47" after you have affirmed what i'm already doing.. i guess the missing ingredient is vibram 5 finger's and core work.

adarqui

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Re: NBA Players Training
« Reply #65 on: July 26, 2011, 08:53:19 pm »
0
Take the strongest guy in the NBA.

Is he better than Kobe?.

ya that's a bad way of looking at things.. it seems sickenin just doesn't get it..





Quote
is Kobe with +100lb on squat/DL, +100lb on bench/press a better athlete then he is right now, assuming his fat%, etc are the same?

correct way of looking at things ^^

pc

adarqui

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Re: NBA Players Training
« Reply #66 on: July 26, 2011, 09:11:19 pm »
0
sickenin, what are some of the key differences between NFL athletes and NBA athletes, which explains their different levels of strength/power?

i'm curious as to what you think is responsible for nfl athletes having far better standing vert's than NBA (at comparable heights/bodyweight), same for RVJ, 40 yard dash, broad jump etc?

the squat is apart of every football weightroom in america, from high school to college to nfl.... the squat is hardly apart of basketball weight rooms... does this have anything to do with the differences in power between nba and nfl athletes? is it all genetics/limb leverages?

what is it?

why is the nba bench press test 185, not 225 like nfl? is this simply due to longer arms or what? most point guards in nba can barely rep out 185 for anything impressive, yet defensive back's in nfl can rep 225 out 20+ times.. why is this?

what i'm asking is, why are nfl athletes so much more impressive than nba athletes for the vast majority?

thanks in advance for your detailed response, peace.

LanceSTS

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Re: NBA Players Training
« Reply #67 on: July 26, 2011, 09:13:46 pm »
+3
 This thread made me lol my head off, thanks guys.  What it boils down to is some people dont want to hear that they just simply arent strong enough, they want to believe in magic and find some super secret extreme iso upside tuba playing tai chi meditation reverse grip fleshlight hold that will make them better.  If you look around long enough there will be SOMEBODY out there agreeing with you, then when they get on the hamster wheel and dont improve, they give up and usually quit training.

squatting isnt even close to EVERYTHING there is to performance training, no one says that, it DESTROYS pedaling a bicycle, holding planks sideways, and jumping with medicine balls between the legs though.  Its a great exercise to work a very large number of the muscles that need to be extremely strong and powerful for jumping and speed.


and lol at using kobe bryant as an example against squatting............








<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdfrOa6spYI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdfrOa6spYI</a>

11 seconds in, I missed the bike riding clip pulling up with the hip flexors as a primary focus (lmfao)  though Im sure he does lots of those to focus on the most important performance muscles, the hip flexors.
Relax.

adarqui

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Re: NBA Players Training
« Reply #68 on: July 26, 2011, 09:15:56 pm »
0
i found this extremely funny... irclog :F

[9:12pm] aiir: no homo
[9:12pm] adarq: sickenin is just getting raped
[9:12pm] adarq: so hard
[9:12pm] adarq: "i'd tell adarqui to improve his relative strength" -- sickenin
[9:12pm] adarq: derp
[9:12pm] adarq: no shit fuckface
[9:12pm] adarq: lmao
[9:13pm] aiir: lolol
[9:13pm] aiir: that was the whole point
[9:13pm] aiir: of the thread
[9:13pm] adarq: yup



[9:12pm] adarq: "i'd tell adarqui to improve his relative strength" -- sickenin
[9:13pm] aiir: that was the whole point


[9:12pm] adarq: "i'd tell adarqui to improve his relative strength" -- sickenin
[9:13pm] aiir: that was the whole point


[9:12pm] adarq: "i'd tell adarqui to improve his relative strength" -- sickenin
[9:13pm] aiir: that was the whole point


[9:12pm] adarq: "i'd tell adarqui to improve his relative strength" -- sickenin
[9:13pm] aiir: that was the whole point


[9:12pm] adarq: "i'd tell adarqui to improve his relative strength" -- sickenin
[9:13pm] aiir: that was the whole point


[9:12pm] adarq: "i'd tell adarqui to improve his relative strength" -- sickenin
[9:13pm] aiir: that was the whole point

adarqui

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Re: NBA Players Training
« Reply #69 on: July 26, 2011, 09:17:58 pm »
0
This thread made me lol my head off, thanks guys.  What it boils down to is some people dont want to hear that they just simply arent strong enough, they want to believe in magic and find some super secret extreme iso upside tuba playing tai chi meditation reverse grip fleshlight hold that will make them better.  If you look around long enough there will be SOMEBODY out there agreeing with you, then when they get on the hamster wheel and dont improve, they give up and usually quit training.

squatting isnt even close to EVERYTHING there is to performance training, no one says that, it DESTROYS pedaling a bicycle, holding planks sideways, and jumping with medicine balls between the legs though.  Its a great exercise to work a very large number of the muscles that need to be extremely strong and powerful for jumping and speed.


and lol at using kobe bryant as an example against squatting............








<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdfrOa6spYI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdfrOa6spYI</a>

11 seconds in, I missed the bike riding clip pulling up with the hip flexors as a primary focus (lmfao)  though Im sure he does lots of those to focus on the most important performance muscles, the hip flexors.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

btw lance, how did you miss the bicycle clip it's in there at 5.5-5.57 seconds.. quick frames, u need a quick eye.

LanceSTS

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Re: NBA Players Training
« Reply #70 on: July 26, 2011, 09:29:20 pm »
0
 hah, no i saw it , thats why i said, im sure the reason hes doing it is to improve his hip flexor power because thats super important to him.  Its not because in the offseason tons of nba guys get on the stationary bike since they are getting less court time.
Relax.

adarqui

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Re: NBA Players Training
« Reply #71 on: July 26, 2011, 09:56:37 pm »
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hah, no i saw it , thats why i said, im sure the reason hes doing it is to improve his hip flexor power because thats super important to him.  Its not because in the offseason tons of nba guys get on the stationary bike since they are getting less court time.

what is your opinion on adding chains to the stationary bike? accommodating resistance for more explosion?

LanceSTS

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Re: NBA Players Training
« Reply #72 on: July 26, 2011, 10:06:45 pm »
0
hah, no i saw it , thats why i said, im sure the reason hes doing it is to improve his hip flexor power because thats super important to him.  Its not because in the offseason tons of nba guys get on the stationary bike since they are getting less court time.

what is your opinion on adding chains to the stationary bike? accommodating resistance for more explosion?

It basically makes or breaks the exercise.  Same with those squats, it is painfully obvious that the only benefits he is receiving is from the correctly hung chains, nothing to do with the 365lbs on the bar.  Basically, if it isnt extremely complicated, it doesnt work.   Rumor has it that was a boing vert session and everything was just a pre cursor to the med ball btl's though, they always hide the good shit.
Relax.

D-Rose Jr

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Re: NBA Players Training
« Reply #73 on: July 26, 2011, 10:08:52 pm »
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to the original poster. Basketball doesnt really have a weight lifting environment. With football every body wonders your bench, squat, and power clean. With basketball if you can bump it in the post/jump really high/dunk/look jacked/quick/explosive/etc. than no one really worries about the weight room. Yes some people can do this without really training too much for it.

for example: this kid at a park i play ball at can: dunk all kinds of ways at 5'8, is jacked and is quick as hell. ALL WITHOUT TRAINING.

for someone like me, I have to train for that.

Also with basketball you have to remember the hours needed for practice and playing trying to gain experience. ITs not like football where you don't practice as much. If you have the option of improving your athleticism or basketball iq/skills and both are decent at the nba level, I would always go for the skill and bball iq.

No one mentions it but ANDRE FUCKING MILLER. He is not an athlete but he is a BASKETBALL player.


undoubtable

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Re: NBA Players Training
« Reply #74 on: July 26, 2011, 10:13:03 pm »
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to the original poster. Basketball doesnt really have a weight lifting environment. With football every body wonders your bench, squat, and power clean. With basketball if you can bump it in the post/jump really high/dunk/look jacked/quick/explosive/etc. than no one really worries about the weight room. Yes some people can do this without really training too much for it.

for example: this kid at a park i play ball at can: dunk all kinds of ways at 5'8, is jacked and is quick as hell. ALL WITHOUT TRAINING.

for someone like me, I have to train for that.

Also with basketball you have to remember the hours needed for practice and playing trying to gain experience. ITs not like football where you don't practice as much. If you have the option of improving your athleticism or basketball iq/skills and both are decent at the nba level, I would always go for the skill and bball iq.

No one mentions it but ANDRE FUCKING MILLER. He is not an athlete but he is a BASKETBALL player.

That's what I thought until I saw this a while back.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etSJam5VgH8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etSJam5VgH8</a>
GOALS

Squat 340x3               Power clean 265

BP 225x3                    100m - 11.5