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Author Topic: My calves.  (Read 12334 times)

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swatts

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Re: My calves.
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2010, 03:12:52 pm »
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Guess i should have worded it better, i meant don't bother developing calves from a vanity standpoint... Though anyone know any solid peer reviewed studies on calf contributions to VJ Single & Double / effects of calf training protocols?? 
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Raptor

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Re: My calves.
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2010, 04:25:26 pm »
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Well theoretically your calves don't do much in terms of jumping. If you isolate them and jump only by ankle extension you won't get very high. Good plantar flexion ankle ROM is a great way to get more out of them I suppose.

However, I have a feeling that once they get "loaded" at high speeds/high forces they contribute much more than you'd think.
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Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

adarqui

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Re: My calves.
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2010, 06:01:02 pm »
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Quote from: swatts on November 07, 2010, 11:03:19 am
Never tried negatives for calves, if you were looking to put on size, i'm guessing they would be of benefit. If you were going to do them make sure you have something to stop your heel so you feet dong go past 90-100 degree dorsiflexion... Once your shin angle is < 90 that's where I could see injury occurring..



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unless your a bodybuilder though, i wouldn't bother trying to develop the calves, just learn to live with what you got.. 

"unless your a bodybuilder though, i wouldn't bother trying to develop the hamstrings, just learn to live with what you got.."

"unless your a bodybuilder though, i wouldn't bother trying to develop the glutes, just learn to live with what you got.."

"unless your a bodybuilder though, i wouldn't bother trying to develop reactive ability, just learn to live with what you got.."

"unless your a bodybuilder though, i wouldn't bother trying to develop explosive strength, just learn to live with what you got.."

"unless your a bodybuilder though, i wouldn't bother trying to develop maximal strength, just learn to live with what you got.."

etc

verkhoshansky prescribes calf raises for a reason.. I know he's not the end all be all in s&c ideology, but, it only makes sense to train the calf just like how you train the glutes/hamstrings, which are less developed primarily fast twitch muscle groups. The gastrocs are highly fast twitch, but that's not to say that they learn to develop maximal forces from sprinting/plyos alone. A very small, unnoticable amount of hypertrophy could lead to some serious strength gains in the gastrocs. Strength can also be gained without hypertrophy, of course.. It's similar to people who want to improve jump shot range; the overall mindset is to just practice shooting from further out, but more gains can be made if the trainee shoot from further out AND improves overall upper & lower body strength, which entails holding on to progressively heavier db's, which also helps develop the wrist flexors. The upper body is unlike the lower body in terms of weight training, the muscles of the feet/toes/lower leg gain much less strength when weightlifting than the hands/fingers/wrists/forearm.. The feet play a major roll in jumping/sprinting etc, as we both know, being able to 'flick' the feet just like you can 'flick' the wrist will give you considerable gains in power in regards to jumping.. that reflexive flick during sprinting is just as important.

pc
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adarqui

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Re: My calves.
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2010, 06:12:13 pm »
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Quote from: Raptor on November 07, 2010, 04:25:26 pm
Well theoretically your calves don't do much in terms of jumping. If you isolate them and jump only by ankle extension you won't get very high. Good plantar flexion ankle ROM is a great way to get more out of them I suppose.

if you isolate them from a static position and try to maximally pushoff and get airborn, then yes, you are right.. but that's not how the calfs work in explosive movement so.. if you want to see the calfs contribution, look at completely stiff leg ankle hops, which in experienced jumpers can yield some very impressive heights.. pogos utilize more quad, with the degree of knee bend, but you can get some serious bounce going 100% legs locked.

that analogy of 'jump only with ankle extension' is bad though, have you ever seen someone jump ONLY through knee extension, or ONLY through hip extension ? first of all it's impossible, but secondly, it's just now how the body works.. so to diminish the role of the calfs by saying "look at how they perform in isolation" is really off base.



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However, I have a feeling that once they get "loaded" at high speeds/high forces they contribute much more than you'd think.

when you squat 1RM, there's no calf of course, but consider the amount of force you can apply to the bar in a squat, then consider how much force you can apply to the bar in a calf raise.. even though the range of motion is much smaller, improving maximal strength abilities in any movement will also improve the capability you have to increase explosive strength in that movement..

for example, eddie jumps way higher than me, and most people on the planet (during his peak), one thing he could do very easily, is calf raise a ton of weight.. he could easily calf raise 225 lb on the bar for 20 reps the first time he ever tried.. 225 lb calf raises for me, i'd be lucky to get a few strict ones.. eddie could strict calf raise 225 x 20 at 148 lb.

pc
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adarqui

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Re: My calves.
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2010, 06:13:27 pm »
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Quote from: swatts on November 07, 2010, 03:12:52 pm
Guess i should have worded it better, i meant don't bother developing calves from a vanity standpoint... Though anyone know any solid peer reviewed studies on calf contributions to VJ Single & Double / effects of calf training protocols?? 

i havn't seen many studies on that, most focus on plyo/squat/stim/vests etc, will have to look into that eventually..
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Raptor

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Re: My calves.
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2010, 05:26:20 pm »
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Oh yeah absolutely, I think at this point in time the calves are very very underrated. Before they were so overrated, like all you needed to do was calf raises and that was your vert training.
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Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps
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