Author Topic: Leg Stiffness???  (Read 6987 times)

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seifullaah73

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Leg Stiffness???
« on: September 17, 2011, 12:02:27 pm »
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What is this Leg stiffness about? the benefits of having leg stiffness and how it can help in sprinting and how do you train for leg stiffness.

would things like shock training be beneficial for leg stiffness?

thanks
Warm up drills
   - a walk, b skip quick powerful switch (heel to hams focus), a runs, dribbles small to big to run, straight leg to runs (force, reflex, go up/forward). force to hit the ground before it hits the ground knee/hip is at 90 degrees.
   - acceleration: low heel recovery, shin angle low, drive legs back before hitting the ground and drive thighs/knee forward not up
-------------------------------------------------------------
Measuring reminder:
5 toe to heel steps = 148cm
------------------------------------------------------------------------

�Strength comes from the legs, Power comes from the torso and Speed comes from the arm.� � Al Vermeil
Arm also aids the legs in driving it down with power - seifullaah73

My Progress Log
A Journey to Running fast and Jumping High
http://www.adarq.org/progress-journals-experimental-routines/my-journey-to-hypertrophy/

Raptor

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Re: Leg Stiffness???
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2011, 02:45:04 pm »
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Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

undoubtable

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Re: Leg Stiffness???
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2011, 04:25:58 pm »
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I like that article a lot but for me it only raises more questions than it answers.
GOALS

Squat 340x3               Power clean 265

BP 225x3                    100m - 11.5

seifullaah73

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Re: Leg Stiffness???
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2011, 08:24:51 am »
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it doesn't really help me that much.
Warm up drills
   - a walk, b skip quick powerful switch (heel to hams focus), a runs, dribbles small to big to run, straight leg to runs (force, reflex, go up/forward). force to hit the ground before it hits the ground knee/hip is at 90 degrees.
   - acceleration: low heel recovery, shin angle low, drive legs back before hitting the ground and drive thighs/knee forward not up
-------------------------------------------------------------
Measuring reminder:
5 toe to heel steps = 148cm
------------------------------------------------------------------------

�Strength comes from the legs, Power comes from the torso and Speed comes from the arm.� � Al Vermeil
Arm also aids the legs in driving it down with power - seifullaah73

My Progress Log
A Journey to Running fast and Jumping High
http://www.adarq.org/progress-journals-experimental-routines/my-journey-to-hypertrophy/

Raptor

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Re: Leg Stiffness???
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2011, 09:28:51 am »
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You ungrateful people! >:(
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

LanceSTS

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Re: Leg Stiffness???
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2011, 03:17:24 pm »
+2
What is this Leg stiffness about? the benefits of having leg stiffness and how it can help in sprinting and how do you train for leg stiffness.

would things like shock training be beneficial for leg stiffness?

thanks


  The thing that will help you the MOST right now is to get stronger in the squat and rdl, and sprint.  Until youve put at least 100lbs on both those lifts, and done loads of short sprints, you dont need to go into the "training tendons" mode that leads people to the hamster wheel of no return.

 "stiffness" that matters is JOINT stiffness, or no force can be applied.  joint stiffness is stiffness of the tendons AND the MUSCLES.  If you train the way youre supposed to, those things will take care of themselves.  Get stronger in the glutes, hams, quads, and calves, get moving better by sprinting and doing low level reactive work and jumps, along with fixing any mobility/flexibility issues,  get your body composition in order.  If you do those things, youll be very happy with your sprint times.
Relax.

T0ddday

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Re: Leg Stiffness???
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2011, 05:08:06 pm »
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The concept of leg stiffness isn't too well established anyway.  Obviously short ground contacts are necessary but whether it's weak muscles surrounding the joint that cause it to collapse or whether the tendon is incapable of storing as much force or whether long ground contacts are caused by measurably "loose" tendons isn't really important.  IMO calling it leg stiffness causes people a lot of confusion. 

Anyway, agreed that beginners should focus on weight training and sprinting to get faster.  People underestimate how plyometric sprinting is.  Just want to add two important things. 

1)  Once you have developed even decent acceleration (ie. true 30m < 5 secs) you should include more than just short sprints.  Short sprints (20-60m) are your acceleration work and should be done at top intensity.  Include also some work in the range of 80-150m with varying intensity as well as flying 20's and 30's.  A flying 30 should include a run in of about 40-50 meters, 30m of top speed and 40-50 meters to coast to decelerate.   Top end work well will improve leg stiffness, while also improving your speed endurance.  If you want to run 100m competitively this will be very important.

2)  If you can try to include some sprint work on softer surfaces.  Again this is a way even beginners can improve leg stiffness AND avoid injury.  Try to spend some time sprinting on grass.   

Raptor

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Re: Leg Stiffness???
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2011, 05:16:59 pm »
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I'd be dead scared of running on grass. It can have hidden holes or you can slip on it.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

seifullaah73

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Re: Leg Stiffness???
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2011, 08:14:28 am »
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Thanks for the help guys.
 :)

btw: what type of exercise would be considered 'low level reactive work and jumps'
« Last Edit: September 20, 2011, 08:16:47 am by seifullaah73 »
Warm up drills
   - a walk, b skip quick powerful switch (heel to hams focus), a runs, dribbles small to big to run, straight leg to runs (force, reflex, go up/forward). force to hit the ground before it hits the ground knee/hip is at 90 degrees.
   - acceleration: low heel recovery, shin angle low, drive legs back before hitting the ground and drive thighs/knee forward not up
-------------------------------------------------------------
Measuring reminder:
5 toe to heel steps = 148cm
------------------------------------------------------------------------

�Strength comes from the legs, Power comes from the torso and Speed comes from the arm.� � Al Vermeil
Arm also aids the legs in driving it down with power - seifullaah73

My Progress Log
A Journey to Running fast and Jumping High
http://www.adarq.org/progress-journals-experimental-routines/my-journey-to-hypertrophy/

p.Esk.

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Re: Leg Stiffness???
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2011, 12:30:03 pm »
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  The thing that will help you the MOST right now is to get stronger in the squat and rdl, and sprint.  Until youve put at least 100lbs on both those lifts, and done loads of short sprints, you dont need to go into the "training tendons" mode that leads people to the hamster wheel of no return.

 "stiffness" that matters is JOINT stiffness, or no force can be applied.  joint stiffness is stiffness of the tendons AND the MUSCLES.  If you train the way youre supposed to, those things will take care of themselves.  Get stronger in the glutes, hams, quads, and calves, get moving better by sprinting and doing low level reactive work and jumps, along with fixing any mobility/flexibility issues,  get your body composition in order.  If you do those things, youll be very happy with your sprint times.

Ok so get to at least squatting 2.0xBW. What is a standard like that for the RDL? Like is it 1.5, 1.0 or something? They help me with making goals.
Are calf raises beneficial for getting the calves stronger? Do they not cause ankle problems? If they were to be done what would be the set and rep scheme? HOw do you know if your calves are strong?
What kind of low level reactive work and jumps?

The concept of leg stiffness isn't too well established anyway.  Obviously short ground contacts are necessary but whether it's weak muscles surrounding the joint that cause it to collapse or whether the tendon is incapable of storing as much force or whether long ground contacts are caused by measurably "loose" tendons isn't really important.  IMO calling it leg stiffness causes people a lot of confusion. 

Anyway, agreed that beginners should focus on weight training and sprinting to get faster.  People underestimate how plyometric sprinting is.  Just want to add two important things. 

1)  Once you have developed even decent acceleration (ie. true 30m < 5 secs) you should include more than just short sprints.  Short sprints (20-60m) are your acceleration work and should be done at top intensity.  Include also some work in the range of 80-150m with varying intensity as well as flying 20's and 30's.  A flying 30 should include a run in of about 40-50 meters, 30m of top speed and 40-50 meters to coast to decelerate.   Top end work well will improve leg stiffness, while also improving your speed endurance.  If you want to run 100m competitively this will be very important.

2)  If you can try to include some sprint work on softer surfaces.  Again this is a way even beginners can improve leg stiffness AND avoid injury.  Try to spend some time sprinting on grass.   

Isnt 30 meters about 32 yards? 5 seconds is very long for anyone. How and when would one incorporate the non acceleration work? I think you have seen my log a couple of times. What should i add on to my track work right now? SHould a sprinter do that even if the season is a couple months away?

T0ddday

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Re: Leg Stiffness???
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2011, 12:49:01 pm »
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  The thing that will help you the MOST right now is to get stronger in the squat and rdl, and sprint.  Until youve put at least 100lbs on both those lifts, and done loads of short sprints, you dont need to go into the "training tendons" mode that leads people to the hamster wheel of no return.

 "stiffness" that matters is JOINT stiffness, or no force can be applied.  joint stiffness is stiffness of the tendons AND the MUSCLES.  If you train the way youre supposed to, those things will take care of themselves.  Get stronger in the glutes, hams, quads, and calves, get moving better by sprinting and doing low level reactive work and jumps, along with fixing any mobility/flexibility issues,  get your body composition in order.  If you do those things, youll be very happy with your sprint times.

Ok so get to at least squatting 2.0xBW. What is a standard like that for the RDL? Like is it 1.5, 1.0 or something? They help me with making goals.
Are calf raises beneficial for getting the calves stronger? Do they not cause ankle problems? If they were to be done what would be the set and rep scheme? HOw do you know if your calves are strong?
What kind of low level reactive work and jumps?

The concept of leg stiffness isn't too well established anyway.  Obviously short ground contacts are necessary but whether it's weak muscles surrounding the joint that cause it to collapse or whether the tendon is incapable of storing as much force or whether long ground contacts are caused by measurably "loose" tendons isn't really important.  IMO calling it leg stiffness causes people a lot of confusion. 

Anyway, agreed that beginners should focus on weight training and sprinting to get faster.  People underestimate how plyometric sprinting is.  Just want to add two important things. 

1)  Once you have developed even decent acceleration (ie. true 30m < 5 secs) you should include more than just short sprints.  Short sprints (20-60m) are your acceleration work and should be done at top intensity.  Include also some work in the range of 80-150m with varying intensity as well as flying 20's and 30's.  A flying 30 should include a run in of about 40-50 meters, 30m of top speed and 40-50 meters to coast to decelerate.   Top end work well will improve leg stiffness, while also improving your speed endurance.  If you want to run 100m competitively this will be very important.

2)  If you can try to include some sprint work on softer surfaces.  Again this is a way even beginners can improve leg stiffness AND avoid injury.  Try to spend some time sprinting on grass.   

Isnt 30 meters about 32 yards? 5 seconds is very long for anyone. How and when would one incorporate the non acceleration work? I think you have seen my log a couple of times. What should i add on to my track work right now? SHould a sprinter do that even if the season is a couple months away?

30 meters about 33 yards.  Five seconds is slow, but not as slow as you think.  A true timing is very different than a 40 yard dash timing.  Sprinters should train short to long.  Begin the season with acceleration work and top speed work (flying 30's, flying 20's relax for 80 and run top speed for 40m, etc.).  Check out a site like speedendurance.  Many sample workouts there.

p.Esk.

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Re: Leg Stiffness???
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2011, 01:02:36 pm »
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what are flying 30's. Should i do the top speed stuff before or after acceleration stuff. or on another day.

LanceSTS

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Re: Leg Stiffness???
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2011, 07:49:30 pm »
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Ok so get to at least squatting 2.0xBW. What is a standard like that for the RDL? Like is it 1.5, 1.0 or something? They help me with making goals.

If your squat is a legitimate full squat, and youre an athlete worried about sprinting speed, you want to keep your rdl fairly close to your squat, especially if youre using a high bar squat.  

Quote
Are calf raises beneficial for getting the calves stronger?

yes.

Quote
Do they not cause ankle problems?

Not if theyre done correctly, in fact, they will help strengthen the ankles and aid in preventing problems, along with making you a better athlete with better feet.

Quote
If they were to be done what would be the set and rep scheme?

higher reps tend to work better on calf raises due to the short range of motion and time under tension.  3-4 sets of 12-20 works well.

Quote
HOw do you know if your calves are strong?

youll feel it when jump and sprint, also walking around.  Youll have an extra "pop" when you contact the ground instead of the ankles collapsing at higher forces.

Quote
What kind of low level reactive work and jumps?

there are about 1000 different things you can do, low hurdle hops, line hops, square drills, etc... Anything thats in that intensity range and category will work.

« Last Edit: September 25, 2011, 10:59:03 pm by LanceSTS »
Relax.

p.Esk.

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Re: Leg Stiffness???
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2011, 08:44:41 pm »
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I tried the rdl today. It felt really wierd. Like my grip fell out at the fifth rep 185. I didnt feel it in my hammies. I kinda felt it in my lower back but not really. I just couldn't load anything on my hammies. Idk what the technique is for these.

I will start implementing the calf raises now.

what are flying 30's. Should i do the top speed stuff before or after acceleration stuff. or on another day. or until later on.

seifullaah73

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Re: Leg Stiffness???
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2011, 10:24:22 am »
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Flying 30's are good speed drill. you determine where you will start running from then mark a point to where you will be able to reach your max velocity from the start point and then 30m's from that point you marked for you to try and maintain that top speed for 30m's.

|--------------------------------------|<------------------30m----------------------------------------------------------->|
Start_____Top Speed Attained_______maintain speed until the end point____________End

i would probably do the acceleration stuff first then the top speed stuff. i don't know about others.

what are flying 30's. Should i do the top speed stuff before or after acceleration stuff. or on another day. or until later on.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 10:27:42 am by seifullaah73 »
Warm up drills
   - a walk, b skip quick powerful switch (heel to hams focus), a runs, dribbles small to big to run, straight leg to runs (force, reflex, go up/forward). force to hit the ground before it hits the ground knee/hip is at 90 degrees.
   - acceleration: low heel recovery, shin angle low, drive legs back before hitting the ground and drive thighs/knee forward not up
-------------------------------------------------------------
Measuring reminder:
5 toe to heel steps = 148cm
------------------------------------------------------------------------

�Strength comes from the legs, Power comes from the torso and Speed comes from the arm.� � Al Vermeil
Arm also aids the legs in driving it down with power - seifullaah73

My Progress Log
A Journey to Running fast and Jumping High
http://www.adarq.org/progress-journals-experimental-routines/my-journey-to-hypertrophy/