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Quote from: Avishek on April 08, 2012, 09:22:35 pm

you idiots use the word strength too much.

  Listen up saggy tits, you and harvey are the only idiots in this thread.  No one has made fun of your shitty "sprint" videos, and

people leave your ugly ass alone when you make retarded as fuck exercise videos.  Stop calling people idiots and go do some

depth drops from 8 feet or running deadlifts with 135 and round spine.

I've yet to see you do anything but talk shit...

Yo that's an awesome pic. How come I haven't seen that. Lemme know if you have the link I'll put it on my facebook.


JDUB only exist because I exists. My posts give life to him. Otherwise, he is a useless grub you're right D4. I'm so powerful that I'm able to control people like this.

I didn't say he has no strength. I said he has strength in a short time frame, which is basically power. But power would not even be appropriate beacuse the time frame for him to develop force is so small you might as well just call him quick. But tryin to islate his quads or glutes frmo the action and saying his glutes are strong is just moronic. I can't beleive this nonsense. I can deadlift more than he does so I have stronger glutes but I can't do that because I don't stretch 5 hours a day.

Since he uses so much speed in his plant, it's clearly not just his muscles. He would be a great high jumper of coruse. So whatever the mechanism for that, is what applies to kadour. Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

Quote from: Avishek on April 08, 2012, 09:22:35 pm

you idiots use the word strength too much. kadour Ziani is not strong. He is fast. He develops force quickly in milliseconds, not under seconds under a squat rack with his glutes and quads. I wonder what his tendons look like, and his hip bones, but I feel like he jumps high due to the elastic properties of his tendons and bones in his hips.

As a result of his elastic and probably stiff tendons, he may be able to develop a lot of force, but to think they come from his muscles is just plain wrong. The tendons are the structures that allow the muscles to stretch and produce the force. I read some papers on thsi stuff while ago I forget now.

Also whoever said his flexibility may hinder his performance needs a reference. I understand that acutely stretching hinders power output. But improving fleixbility in the long run usually increases musclee strength.

If you're referring to my flexibility post, then you need to learn how to read.  I said a LACK of flexibility can hinder your vertical.  If you weren't referring to me, then nevermind.


Maybe what you said about his tendons and etc.. are all correct, and they probably are.  But what makes you so sure he doesn't have a lot of strength?  You worked out with him in the weight room before?  You checked out his physique under his shorts before?  You sound so sure about what makes him jump high as if you've studied his entire body in person.  Of course strength isn't always the reason for a high vertical, but it doesn't mean it CAN't be the reason.

yes I am referring to you. I don't need to read I read really fast. You said that his stretching deos not contribute to his vert. How do you know this? How do you know that his stretching his foot up and past his head does not create microtears in his tendons that make them thicker and more elastic?

What is unfortunate about most people is how much they think they know. When their beliefs are challenged they changed the argument.

I already completely DESTROYED the idea that ziani is strong. He can't squat shit. prove me wrong. He can't deadlift shit either.
I STRONGLY SUGGESTED that he has strong tendons, but I have no proof. The way he jumps makes it pretty obvoius he jumps like a high jumper and has similar mechanisms for jumping higher, none of which include strength training and squatting to increase vert.

If anyone can prove that stretching does not increase vertical jump once and for all, do it now. Kadour Ziani doesn't have above average flexibility, he has SUPER BEAST FLEXIBILITY. There's a difference.

I'm being really moderate here. I did not state anything as a fact as usual, everyone else just gets mad when I call them idiots. All i suggest is a HYPOTHESIS. Everyone ELSE thinks they know. Only fools think they know anything.

EDIT: i'm not saying high jumpers don't strength train. But a lot of their programs turn them into "tendon jumpers," and I think there are some serious physiological changes that take place. I wish adarq would comment on this shit.

Threads like this are disturbing as hell. There is one guy that jumps really high and is really flexible and for people like Harvey the connection is immediately formed that more flexibility leads to a higher vertical. While strength increases have been shown over and over again to lead to higher vertical jumps (something that Harvey does not seem to believe), I do not know of similar cases where people just increased their flexibility and then jumped higher.

When Ziani would only eat grass, would you then conclude that his high VJ has something to do with his eating habits?

What in the fucking shit are you talking about. There are COUNTLESS INNUMERABLE examples of athletes that are weak as SHIT in the weight room who jump HIGH AS FUCK.

Strength training has NOT been shown over and  over again to increase vertical jump. It does work, but some athletes have other means of jumping higher. As long as they exist, we know that there are other mechanisms besides higher force production as a result of force training such as squatting and deadlifting that increase explosiveness and vertical jump.

Kadour Ziani is not just "one guy." He's one guy who claims to only stretch to increase his hops (except for that stretch expert guy with a 14'' vertical on youtube), but not the only guy who doesn't strength train and can jump incredible high.

No of course no one would suggest eating grass makes him jump higher. Stretching is in no way analogous to eating grass.

Here is just one study showing that STATIC STRETCHING CAN INCREASE MUSCLE STRENGTH, AS MUCH AS RESISTANCE TRAINING

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21969080

J Strength Cond Res. 2011 Dec;25(12):3391-8.
Resistance training vs. static stretching: effects on flexibility and strength.
Morton SK, Whitehead JR, Brinkert RH, Caine DJ.
Source
Department of Physical Education, Exercise Science, and Wellness (PXW), University of North Dakota, Grand Forks, North Dakota, USA.
Abstract
Morton, SK, Whitehead, JR, Brinkert, RH, and Caine, DJ. Resistance training vs. static stretching: Effects on flexibility and strength. J Strength Cond Res 25(12): 3391-3398, 2011-The purpose of this study was to determine how full-range resistance training (RT) affected flexibility and strength compared to static stretching (SS) of the same muscle-joint complexes in untrained adults. Volunteers (n = 25) were randomized to an RT or SS training group. A group of inactive volunteers (n = 12) served as a convenience control group (CON). After pretesting hamstring extension, hip flexion and extension, shoulder extension flexibility, and peak torque of quadriceps and hamstring muscles, subjects completed 5-week SS or RT treatments in which the aim was to stretch or to strength train the same muscle-joint complexes over similar movements and ranges. Posttests of flexibility and strength were then conducted. There was no difference in hamstring flexibility, hip flexion, and hip extension improvement between RT and SS, but both were superior to CON values. There were no differences between groups on shoulder extension flexibility. The RT group was superior to the CON in knee extension peak torque, but there were no differences between groups on knee flexion peak torque. The results of this preliminary study suggest that carefully constructed full-range RT regimens can improve flexibility as well as the typical SS regimens employed in conditioning programs. Because of the potential practical significance of these results to strength and conditioning programs, further studies using true experimental designs, larger sample sizes, and longer training durations should be conducted with the aim of confirming or disproving these results.