Author Topic: Is this amount of forward lean at the waist healthy?  (Read 9887 times)

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Raptor

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Is this amount of forward lean at the waist healthy?
« on: December 03, 2010, 04:00:11 am »
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<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yha2XAc2qu8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yha2XAc2qu8</a>

He's soooo leaned forward in this movie. To me, that looks like incredible low bar strain tension. I probably do something similar when I low bar squat. I also have lower back problems recently.

Don't you guys think that's VERY bent forward and VERY dangerous for the lower back?
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

DamienZ

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Re: Is this amount of forward lean at the waist healthy?
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2010, 04:27:14 am »
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i think Rippetoe-squats suck!

They guy in the video is quite flexible, so he doesnt have to round his back -> movement comes from the hip. But i think thats too much forward lean for a squat. Low bar placement = more forward lean to shift the bar back over the center of gravity...

I did them like that and it sucked. Now that i switched to closer stance and high bar placement i feel much more comfortable!

Raptor

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Re: Is this amount of forward lean at the waist healthy?
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2010, 04:57:09 am »
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I don't know how you guys squat narrow stance. If I were to squat narrow stance, 1/2 squat would be the lowest that I'd get until I would fall on my back so I'd have to compensate by leaning forward A LOT. The only way to squat narrow is if I lift my heels like a beauty queen.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

DamienZ

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Re: Is this amount of forward lean at the waist healthy?
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2010, 06:57:46 am »
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work on your mobility and flexibility! it takes some practice do go low with good technique...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46EDDftgFZI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46EDDftgFZI</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yl53kPn_YXU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yl53kPn_YXU</a>

LBSS

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Re: Is this amount of forward lean at the waist healthy?
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2010, 10:34:00 am »
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I don't know how you guys squat narrow stance. If I were to squat narrow stance, 1/2 squat would be the lowest that I'd get until I would fall on my back so I'd have to compensate by leaning forward A LOT. The only way to squat narrow is if I lift my heels like a beauty queen.

So why don't you?
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

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https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

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Raptor

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Re: Is this amount of forward lean at the waist healthy?
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2010, 01:19:55 pm »
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Well I could but... it feels weird, I mean, to lift the heels just so I can squat narrower instead of squatting wider not to lift the heels.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

LBSS

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Re: Is this amount of forward lean at the waist healthy?
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2010, 02:35:09 pm »
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Well I could but... it feels weird, I mean, to lift the heels just so I can squat narrower instead of squatting wider not to lift the heels.

To clarify: I don't mean stand on your toes, I mean wear lifting shoes or put your feet up on 5# plates or something.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

LanceSTS

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Re: Is this amount of forward lean at the waist healthy?
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2010, 04:29:20 pm »
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  The kid in the video is just learning and in an exaggerated position at the bottom, long torso and short legs- you can stay very upright and get deep, short torso and long legs- youre going to have to create some forward lean to get to the same depth.  Trying to stay perfectly straight up and down and go deep for someone with a short torso/long leg body type is going to be murder on the knees. 

 You didnt look too far forward on your latest squats at all, it looked alot better than the previous high bar ones you posted, that squat is going to suit your body type much better and allow you to go deeper without killing your knees.
Relax.

Raptor

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Re: Is this amount of forward lean at the waist healthy?
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2010, 04:41:44 pm »
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  The kid in the video is just learning and in an exaggerated position at the bottom, long torso and short legs- you can stay very upright and get deep, short torso and long legs- youre going to have to create some forward lean to get to the same depth.  Trying to stay perfectly straight up and down and go deep for someone with a short torso/long leg body type is going to be murder on the knees. 

 You didnt look too far forward on your latest squats at all, it looked alot better than the previous high bar ones you posted, that squat is going to suit your body type much better and allow you to go deeper without killing your knees.

Well incidentally, I have lower back pain now, and I've had it two weeks ago as well, from the squats. And I feel like I'm bending forward a lot. Flip is doing the same as well, he's lucky he has the shoulder or whatever (pec) flexibility to get his palms over the bar and hold it as he's supposed to but other than that... he kind of bends a lot at the waist when doing the low bar squats.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

LanceSTS

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Re: Is this amount of forward lean at the waist healthy?
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2010, 04:50:51 pm »
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  If youre feeling low back pain after squatting its likely youre not "tight" enough, regardless of the forward lean that will bother your low back.  If you have access to some lifting shoes those would be a good investment, if not some 2&1/2 lb plates under the heels can help, but I would only do this with the lower bar position, with your knee history it may bother you with a higher bar position.  Spread the chest HARD, push the knees out, that should help you keep the tightness throughout the lift. 
Relax.

Raptor

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Re: Is this amount of forward lean at the waist healthy?
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2010, 05:00:47 pm »
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Yeah I think the biggest issue is mental focus... sometimes my mind just wanders around instead of focusing on the "hey, you have a heavy bar on your back" thing. Very dangerous and stupid. But ... it happens, I can't help it. Still, in my last squat workout I did squats with 110 and it went very well.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

LanceSTS

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Re: Is this amount of forward lean at the waist healthy?
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2010, 05:16:28 pm »
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 Great man, I seriously have been hoping you can get around that shoulder/wrist issue somehow because you have a good fit now with your squatting if it werent for that one issue.  Yea, that focus is hard to maintain sometimes, everybody does that from time to time, higher rep sets are especially hard to focus fully on throughout.   gotta do it though  ;D
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Raptor

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Re: Is this amount of forward lean at the waist healthy?
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2010, 05:28:03 pm »
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Yeah interestingly enough, with a heavier bar that's not the issue as much as it is with a lighter bar. A heavier bar kind of digs itself more into my upperback and delts, while a lighter bar I need to hold it more with my arms...

The bar still slowly slips on my back as my set goes on, so I hurry up on my set to finish it before the bar is too low and I need to drop it, which would basically mean I would be kicked out of the gym probably and that would be it.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

Sean0013

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Re: Is this amount of forward lean at the waist healthy?
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2010, 04:52:53 pm »
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Being honest when hes squatting without the bar hes rounding his back out like crazy...
I know it's kinda hard to do that with a heavy bar on your back, your body kind of tells you not to...BUT...to me it looks like hes initiating some of the movement with his lower back....I saw this video before and though the same...

I'm all for squatting low and getting good hip drive...to met his form isn't good though...I don't think this dude is a beginner either..theres a good 100 kg on that bar from what I can see! Not a huge number but he is getting feedback as he lifts and talking to the coach..
Goals by May 2011

1. Squat 120kg x 8
2. Deadlift 140 kg x 1
3. Jump Hang-snatch 70kg

Progress tracker
http://www.adarq.org/forum/progress-journals-experimental-routines/super-saiyan-()/msg44017/#msg44017

steven-miller

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Re: Is this amount of forward lean at the waist healthy?
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2010, 11:24:23 am »
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Being honest when hes squatting without the bar hes rounding his back out like crazy...
I know it's kinda hard to do that with a heavy bar on your back, your body kind of tells you not to...BUT...to me it looks like hes initiating some of the movement with his lower back....I saw this video before and though the same...

I'm all for squatting low and getting good hip drive...to met his form isn't good though...I don't think this dude is a beginner either..theres a good 100 kg on that bar from what I can see! Not a huge number but he is getting feedback as he lifts and talking to the coach..

I think that you are exaggerating the rounded back point a little. I agree that there is some spinal movement, that should not be there, but if you have coached some athletes this exercise you might have noticed that people respond better to a limited amount of information regarding what they should be concentrating at. I coached some people the squat and often times the rounded back issue goes away nearly from itself and with giving only very little cues. People who cannot hold their lower back tight when you let them crouch down suddenly do it with a bar on their backs once you figured out the correct stance and also how to involve the hips better.
People are often mistaken when they say they weren't flexible enough to do a below parallel squat. Mark Rippetoe found, and in this case I can agree from personal experience, that this is often a result of sub par technique, especially when preconceived notions exist about what constitutes "correct stance" and "correct back angle". Once you get people to get rid of those ideas, they usually can squat below parallel and with good lumbar posture as well. I have found this to be true for females and males alike and also for several athletic as well as completely unathletic people by the way.

Also regarding the video again, the guy is indeed a beginner and that is not 100 kg on the bar. Those are bumper plates and I would guess that the weight is between 40 and 60 kg.