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When I weigh 300 lbs with 25% bodyfat and powersnatch 900 lbs, where do you think that puts my SVJ? Right, probably a lot higher than Harvey's.

meh. There's a point of diminishing returns from what I understand. Obviously you're being sarcastic with the weight but that's not the point. Nobody on this site is anywhere near that point though, so don't think I'm saying stay weak and skinny Raptor.

Quote from: D4 on April 03, 2012, 06:20:23 pm

Steven, I agree with everything you said but am interested in if you think the exact same thing for single leg jumpers?

In principal it does. It might be that single leg jumpers have different priorities, but they still would want to be really powerful in relation to their bodyweight, right?

Well, if added bodyweight does not bode well for single leg jumping, shouldn't adding more mass than necessary not be a focus for single leg jumpers?  Since power/strength doesn't correlate with jumping high as much as it does compared to double leg jumping?

I mean of course I agree a single leg jumper should try to improve there power/BW ratio as much as possible, but I would think they should try to do so without gaining too much weight, while a double leg jumper can ignore this and gain more weight without worrying about it as long as the weight is muscle.

Quote from: D4 on April 03, 2012, 07:31:14 pm

Quote from: steven-miller on April 03, 2012, 07:26:54 pm

Quote from: D4 on April 03, 2012, 06:20:23 pm

Steven, I agree with everything you said but am interested in if you think the exact same thing for single leg jumpers?

In principal it does. It might be that single leg jumpers have different priorities, but they still would want to be really powerful in relation to their bodyweight, right?

Well, if added bodyweight does not bode well for single leg jumping, shouldn't adding more mass than necessary not be a focus for single leg jumpers?  Since power/strength doesn't correlate with jumping high as much as it does compared to double leg jumping?

I mean of course I agree a single leg jumper should try to improve there power/BW ratio as much as possible, but I would think they should try to do so without gaining too much weight, while a double leg jumper can ignore this and gain more weight without worrying about it as long as the weight is muscle.

There is going to be an optimal bodyweight for every individual and jump type. Higher will be worse, lower will be worse as well. The mean optimal bodyweight is going to be lower for single leg jumpers I believe. But you do not want to "minimize" bodyweight as Harvey indirectly suggested (see wording "anorexic"). You want to be around that "optimal" spot, where your body can function properly, where you can train and recover properly and where you are really powerful and strong.

I want to ask you a different but related question though. You said strength/power does not correlate high with single leg jump height. Regardless of whether this is true or not, what do you suggest single leg jumpers to train then? You don't suggest to add leg length, do you? ;-)

I agree on the whole finding your optimal weight idea.

I never said strength/power does not correlate high with single leg jumping lol.  I am a single leg jumper and am working hard to get to 2xBW squat.  I said it does not correlate high AS MUCH as it does for a double leg jump which I believe you will agree with as well.  We all know double leg jumping relies more on power than leverage and the vice versa is true for single leg jumping.

You just seemed like you were a huge advocate of gaining muscle mass to improve power output, so I was wondering if you had any alterations to that idea when it comes to single leg jumping when too much mass/weight can hurt more than in double leg jumping.

However, I took your words wrong and now see that you aren't really saying "gain as much muscle mass/weight as possible because it = more power/strength", but instead you're just simply saying don't be scared to gain some weight/muscle, as long as you don't go past your optimal range.

irrational fear of putting on useful body mass.

That's just it. Fat isn't useful body mass. Is there any way we can increase strength/power/elasticity and remove body fat efficiently?

Quote from: steven-miller on April 03, 2012, 05:23:55 pm

irrational fear of putting on useful body mass.

That's just it. Fat isn't useful body mass. Is there any way we can increase strength/power/elasticity and remove body fat efficiently?

Remove fat = change your diet

Increase strength/power/elasticity = train

Obviously while doing the former, the latter will slow down, or get weaker, all depending on your current levels of body composition and strength and training history...

You can improve both at the same time, depending on your current levels if you eat right and get your macro ratios on target.

Quote from: D4 on April 04, 2012, 12:20:15 am

Quote from: Harvey M. on April 03, 2012, 11:47:13 pm

Quote from: steven-miller on April 03, 2012, 05:23:55 pm

irrational fear of putting on useful body mass.

That's just it. Fat isn't useful body mass. Is there any way we can increase strength/power/elasticity and remove body fat efficiently?

Remove fat = change your diet

Increase strength/power/elasticity = train

Obviously while doing the former, the latter will slow down, or get weaker, all depending on your current levels of body composition and strength and training history...

You can improve both at the same time, depending on your current levels if you eat right and get your macro ratios on target.

That's what I wanted to hear. Would you recommend doing so or taking the easy option?

Would I recommend doing what?  And whats the easy option..?  Be more clear.

One way is not the "easy way" Both require hard and dedicated work.

Dude, I already posted my advice on this situation in an earlier post.....  I said if you are over 12% BF, get to ~12% first then get your strength up.  If you're over 2xBW squat, then try to get even leaner....  If you're a single leg jumper, get to ~10% ASAP and then build up your strength.  This is all just my opinion.

In your terms, the "hard way" of losing fat and building muscle is only going to be possible if your within certain body fat and strength levels as I already have stated...  If you're 7% BF, you're not going to get leaner while getting stronger.  If you're 20%BF it's pretty easy to build muscle and lose fat simultaneously.  But if this 20%BF guy has a 3xBW squat and 2xBW Bench, he probably won't gain much muscle/strength, if at all, if he's trying to lose fat.

What about this:

Same guy at 200 lbs and 400 lbs squat with 15% bodyfat (less lean body mass but more powerful neural signals)
Same guy at 200 lbs and 400 lbs squat with 10% bodyfat (more lean body mass but less powerful neural signals)

This is something I've wondered about myself for a long time.  Is bodyfat just simply dead weight?  Or does it also affect posture/leverage/etc.. enough to the point of higher or lower jump heights.