Author Topic: High cut calves  (Read 34679 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

lamp

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 260
  • Respect: +30
    • View Profile
High cut calves
« on: February 24, 2011, 11:17:11 pm »
+1
One thing thats often said is it is a lot easier to jump high when you have high cut calves.

I have found generally this is true....BUT

I first noticed this when I was watching a stefan holmes (high jumper) hurdle vid

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG3_I3zFB0U" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG3_I3zFB0U</a>




Watch this video twice-- the first time to see how awesome he is and how easy he makes head-height hurdles look.

The second time skip to 23sec-32sec where you can clearly see his lower limb structure.
His calves are clearly not low cut-- his achilles is not very long at all.  especially at 31 sec they look frankly low-cut   :o

how could this be?  He is one of the best high jumpers (at least was) and successful on an elite level yet structurally he doesn't appear built for it.

This piqued my curiosity so I looked at the structure of other elite high jumpers:











In fact the only elite high jumper who I found had high-calves was the bahamanian donald thomas (who also was the only high jumper not of european descent)




i just thought it was interesting that these athletes who excel in jumping especially from a reactive point of view (their rvjs are much higher than their cmvjs) do not have high-cut calves


Dreyth

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3060
  • Respect: +1060
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: High cut calves
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2011, 11:51:07 pm »
0
interesting! gives me hope lol. i feel like most people that are 2 foot jumpers and jump ridic high are the ones that have high calves... vince carter, jus fly, etc
I'm LAKERS from The Vertical Summit

Raptor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14619
  • Respect: +2539
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - raptorescu
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: High cut calves
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2011, 03:07:34 am »
+1
Nightfly has similar calves to these guys ^^^ and jumps over 40 off one leg. Maybe a shorter tendon might be thicker and get stiff easier? At the same time, a longer, bigger calf muscle has a chance of getting even bigger than a shorter muscle (more hypertrophy potential).
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

LBSS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12979
  • plugging away...
  • Respect: +8042
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: High cut calves
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2011, 09:10:47 am »
0
Nightfly has similar calves to these guys ^^^ and jumps over 40 off one leg. Maybe a shorter tendon might be thicker and get stiff easier? At the same time, a longer, bigger calf muscle has a chance of getting even bigger than a shorter muscle (more hypertrophy potential).

Yeah but hypertrophy isn't really the key here. Those dudes' calves aren't really THAT big.

I'm with dreyth, that shit gives me and my low-cut calves hope of actually being springy one day.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

Raptor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14619
  • Respect: +2539
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - raptorescu
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: High cut calves
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2011, 09:48:04 am »
0
Well yeah, that's why I said "at the same time", because I made another point before the calf size potential point, that being "Maybe a shorter tendon might be thicker and get stiff easier"
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

lamp

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 260
  • Respect: +30
    • View Profile
Re: High cut calves
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2011, 10:45:01 am »
0
Nightfly has similar calves to these guys ^^^ and jumps over 40 off one leg. Maybe a shorter tendon might be thicker and get stiff easier? At the same time, a longer, bigger calf muscle has a chance of getting even bigger than a shorter muscle (more hypertrophy potential).

the thicker part was what I was thinking too.

shorter tendon=thicker and stiffer tendon perhaps...

Dreyth

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3060
  • Respect: +1060
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: High cut calves
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2011, 11:05:25 am »
0
um, what about no calves??
justin darlington:


Now I feel like a longer flatter calf or something can stretch and rebound better and is better suited for jumping.
I'm LAKERS from The Vertical Summit

Raptor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14619
  • Respect: +2539
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - raptorescu
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: High cut calves
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2011, 11:27:01 am »
0
I wonder if calf length and tendon length affects ankle ROM.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

lamp

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 260
  • Respect: +30
    • View Profile
Re: High cut calves
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2011, 01:38:23 pm »
0
Bret Contreras just posted a whole series of practical applications of recent studies.  This was one of them:

Interpretation of previous work showing long compliant tendons were better suited for jumping should take into account that during the quick jump situations often observed in sport that tendon length may actually diminish rather than enhance performance, and thus decrease the importance of AT-length for talent identification. Optimal muscle architecture appears to be dependent on both the eccentric load and the phase of jump. While both strength and plyometric training have been shown to increase FL only heavy strength training has been shown to increase P. Thus when a high eccentric load or multiple jumps are required for sport heavy strength training should be used to allow for early force production during jumping.

Kellyb

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 177
  • Respect: +54
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: High cut calves
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2011, 02:20:00 pm »
+1
From strictly a structural perspective there is no advantage to having high cut calves. In fact I could make a pretty strong argument (and an observable one) that low cut calves give an advantage during initial acceleration and certain types of jumps if other key ingredients are in place...more potential force and force absorption. ** However, it's not all about that one body-part. Pay attention and observe people - high cut calves correlate with other positive athletic qualities such as narrow hips, longer legs, better nervous system, more fast twitch muscle, broaders shoudlers and lower body-fat...typical pit bull build. Those things all combine to make better athletes.

Plus it's an innate west african characteristic and for that reason alone will tend to correlate with athletic success.  

Low cut calves correlate with whiteness.  wider hips, shorter legs, bottom heavy lower body (quad vs glute dominance), slower nervous system,  heavy build, etc.

So it's all the other things accompanying low cut calves that make them disadvantageous IMO. Doesn't mean you can't become an explosive athlete because of that one quality.

Take a look at samoans for example - a group that usually combines naturally low cut calves with other postivie physiological athletic qualities...you're not gonna have a difficult time finding explosively athletic samoans.

**One of the things I've observed is noticeable in that clip of Holme above - the landing is extremely smooth and quiet like a feather hitting a pillow. The foot deforms a bit more than a typical "high cut" calf person, but you can see more initial acceleration off of footstrike.  Holm also has extremely long femurs and very narrow hips which you won't often find on someone with that type of lower leg build.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2011, 02:34:47 pm by Kellyb »

Raptor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14619
  • Respect: +2539
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - raptorescu
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: High cut calves
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2011, 04:57:17 pm »
0
Could narrow hips be detrimental to a standing VJ? I'm thinking you can bend less with narrow hips until you need to compensate by bending forward and all that. So I think it's both detrimental to squatting and standing vertical jumping (less ROM to apply force).
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

Kellyb

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 177
  • Respect: +54
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: High cut calves
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2011, 05:24:13 pm »
0
Perhaps only because people with narrow hips aren't always very strong and having wide hips isn't nearly as detrimental for SVJ as it is for speed.  I'm just speaking generally - narrower relative hip structure is a good trait for athleticism. I think for strictly vert purposes (bilateral or unilateral), relative femur length trumps most other stuff wrt to structure.

BMully

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1054
  • Respect: -41
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: High cut calves
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2011, 06:03:50 pm »
0
Kelly's idea makes the most sense to me

I've always been told that reactive people have High cut calves, narrow joints, and  long legs.


Most sprinters have high cut calves, probably due to the reason kelly said. They have a better build overall usually. But I know that I have decently high calves, and I've always felt a tendency to being reactive.







Usain Bolt is said to be one of the MOST reactive people ever...He has high cut calves


High jumpers only have to do one jump during their event....sprinters have a longer time of effort....there might be something in that

BMully

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1054
  • Respect: -41
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: High cut calves
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2011, 06:09:33 pm »
0
here is one sub 10 second 100m runner that has low cut claves



In the attachmets, the pic shows 3 guys with low cut calves, both decently muscular..with one guy who is very skinny, with high cut calves


Raptor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14619
  • Respect: +2539
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - raptorescu
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: High cut calves
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2011, 06:16:27 pm »
0
Usain's calves look really weird. Under his calf you can see there's another lump... that's a big soleus alright.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps