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Quote from: Alex V on July 20, 2011, 01:23:54 pm

Also dont get obsessed about parallel.  Only go as low as you can properly.  Over time you should be able to get deeper and deeper.

Alex, I have never understood why you would recommend that to a guy, especially a beginner, over the internet. I can to a degree understand why in group coaching situations with team sport athletes you might not have the time to coach a full squat to everyone. But this person is trying to learn full squats, because they are a better exercise for a beginner, and needs to be introduced to correct form as long as the weights are light. I doubt that doing it wrong now will make it easier to do it correct later. In the process of doing squats high nothing is learned that helps doing squats low later, since in most cases technical problems are the reason for the inability of reaching good depth with reasonable form.

Quote from: steven-miller on July 20, 2011, 02:36:25 pm

Quote from: Alex V on July 20, 2011, 01:23:54 pm

Also dont get obsessed about parallel.  Only go as low as you can properly.  Over time you should be able to get deeper and deeper.

Alex, I have never understood why you would recommend that to a guy, especially a beginner, over the internet. I can to a degree understand why in group coaching situations with team sport athletes you might not have the time to coach a full squat to everyone. But this person is trying to learn full squats, because they are a better exercise for a beginner, and needs to be introduced to correct form as long as the weights are light. I doubt that doing it wrong now will make it easier to do it correct later. In the process of doing squats high nothing is learned that helps doing squats low later, since in most cases technical problems are the reason for the inability of reaching good depth with reasonable form.

Do I still qualify as a beginner if I've been squatting for 5 months now?  

The issue with my glutes not being activated during squats confuses me because when I first started squatting 5 months ago, I was half squatting.  And in doing so, my glutes were primarily getting worked, while I hardly felt anything in my quads.  Something I found weird since I assumed half squatting is mainly quads and the lower u go it's the glutes.  Right now, I am comfortably doing parallel squats sitting back, but I only feel it in my quads and hams, no glutes.

I think THE MOST common thing I personally see in people starting to squat and not be able to get lower is the fact that they either:

a) Not have a wide enough stance

and/or

b) Have their feet oriented forward (which usually goes hand in hand with a narrow stance) instead of orienting them a bit to the outside to allow a better "hip opening" while going down into the squat.

So they need to play with that before they address anything more complicated.

I didn't take offense to it, I really was curious, but I guess I am an intermediate then?  Because for a while now, I'm no longer at the point where I can add 5 lbs every session or so.  Takes me about 3 sessions or like a week and a half to add 5 lbs these days.

Quote from: steven-miller on July 20, 2011, 03:59:26 pm

Quote from: Ineedtodunk on July 20, 2011, 03:50:47 pm

I didn't take offense to it, I really was curious, but I guess I am an intermediate then?  Because for a while now, I'm no longer at the point where I can add 5 lbs every session or so.  Takes me about 3 sessions or like a week and a half to add 5 lbs these days.

You are not an intermediate. You are doing too many sets, your training frequency is too low and you are not eating to recover optimally.

And how do you know what my diet is?

What kind of frequency and number of sets would you suggest?

BTW, incase you didn't know, I'm studying abroad in England right now for a total of 8 weeks, and during this time I only have time to go to the gym for 2 days a week, and I figured that was the best schedule I can utilize at this point (if you did look at my routine in my journal).  I know training 2 days a week is not much, but I'm in Europe for a once in a lifetime experience, training is not #1 for me right now.  However, I do still believe my 2 day a week schedule is more than good enough to train my weakest link right now, which is my strength

Anyways, if I were to go on a diet where I ate like crazy and get stronger a lot faster, it's gonna have to wait until Aug 27 when I go back home.  I can't afford to eat like that while I'm here.  Incase you didn't know, this country is so freakin expensive.  It costs me $5.75 just to take 1 bus to the supermarket and back, don't get me started on the food prices.

Quote from: mj on July 20, 2011, 02:46:05 am

Quote from: LanceSTS on July 18, 2011, 03:13:51 pm

Quote from: Ineedtodunk on July 18, 2011, 03:08:41 pm

Wait a minute, the thing about this is, not only are my glutes not getting sore, but I don't feel it in my glutes at all during my squats or trap bar dead lifts or conventional dead lifts lol.  And I am doing the DL's in a lower body dominant way, using my hips, etc..

Also adarq, I try to do my squats sitting back as much as I can. 

Does this mean my glutes are not being worked out?  I definitely feel it in my quads and hams on each rep, but don't feel shit on my glutes.

  If youre sitting back and not getting the glutes engaged, youre probably over arching the low back, putting more stress on the hams and less on the glutes.  Video of your squat would be the easiest way to tell.

If someone has an exaggerated lordodic curve could this be a recurring problem, engaging the glutes I mean? I've always had trouble activating the glutes on all the big lifts like old mate above and have a bit of an exaggerated curve happening. I remember after squatting for about 6 months I got accidentally hit a groove on one rep where my glutes really fired. Surprised the hell out of me!

Tried all the stretching etc but can't seem to get rid of it. I only get really good glute input when my torso is bolt upright, which it can't be in squats cause I have looong femurs. Pretty frustrating. I end up turning to hip thrusts etc to feel the glutes work but this is a band aid fix.

Sorry 4 the hijack.

yea that groove you hit was just likely closer to "neutral", and put the pelvis in a more optimal position for the glutes to fire. 

One thing ive found that helps people in your situation is to actually contract the abdominals isometrically, but not allow the trunk to flex.  It sounds strange but if you try it you can understand the position better.  The contraction will keep an already exaggerated curve from being as big of a factor, and help you attain a slightly less "bowed" position in your lifts.  This is one of the reasons its easier for most people to feel the glutes working during exercises like zercher squats vs traditional. 

one thing that really helps is to use pauses at different spots in the lifts, for example pause briefly and hold at the bottom of the squat until you "feel" the glutes firing hard.  Practice keeping the abdominals "tensed" without allowing the spine to flex and see if that doesnt solve your issue.

if he can only squat to 70 degrees without going into lumbar flexion or hyperextension then going any lower will only make teaching him to squat properly even more harder and longer

if he does either of these when he squats then all he's doing going to parallel (if he can't do it properly) is reinforcing bad technique, motor patterns and muscle activation sequencing

experienced or beginner, its better to do something right over a short of motion then wrong over a long range of motion

Quote from: steven-miller on July 20, 2011, 02:36:25 pm

Quote from: Alex V on July 20, 2011, 01:23:54 pm

Also dont get obsessed about parallel.  Only go as low as you can properly.  Over time you should be able to get deeper and deeper.

Alex, I have never understood why you would recommend that to a guy, especially a beginner, over the internet. I can to a degree understand why in group coaching situations with team sport athletes you might not have the time to coach a full squat to everyone. But this person is trying to learn full squats, because they are a better exercise for a beginner, and needs to be introduced to correct form as long as the weights are light. I doubt that doing it wrong now will make it easier to do it correct later. In the process of doing squats high nothing is learned that helps doing squats low later, since in most cases technical problems are the reason for the inability of reaching good depth with reasonable form.

If he is spilling into his low back, quads , and hamstrings then he is not squatting correctly (if performance is your goal, squatting for OLY or PL is different).  He needs to be getting to his glutes. Depth has nothing to do with this, proper movement does.  So why not move properly.  The OP said he no longer gets his glutes going in squats and loads his erector spinae and hams during DL's, thus It seems safe to conclude he is losing position or form.

I recently saw a few McGill presentations in person and he echoed the same points.  Going to parallel for parallel's sake in the face of bad technique (not getting to the glutes) will lead to injury.  He also asked people "Why do you need to get to parallel?"   Everyone said the sme thing "P-chain..."  His response was that if that is the reasn you have never seen a properly conducted EMG study or have a very poor understanding of functional anatomy.  I sat there and wondered how many heads his presentation was fling over at that moment.

So in summary only do what you can do with perfect form and over time proper strength development may open up new ROM's