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It would be great for me to do deficit deadlifts, knowing as I can't maintain a straight back in a normal deadlift let alone a deficit one.

Cool!

It's pretty much the same as saying everybody should do high bar ATG squats because everybody should be able to squat like olympic lifters, right?

I did not suggest that anybody should do deficit deadlifts. But only doing what you can do already is a great way to never learn anything.

  only doing what you can do already is a great way to never learn anything.

 A very good point.

That angle is correct. It remains the main goal, to become as athletic as possible. That's what i've been working towards this year and it's paying off so far. I've even successfully achieved some inverse hypertrophy as well by dilligently avoiding unnecessary exercises such as DLs, weighted chins and Pendlay rows. The questions about the deadlift (or sumo variation) are from the perspective of assisting the squat. I know I risk attaining some unwanted hypetrophy this way, but if it helps my squat I'm perhaps willing to risk it. Would having a strong back help staying up right out of the bottom of the hole? Not tipping forward as much if I have a strong chest and upper back? These are the trade offs im considering.

  This is the deal here, when you get your squat form on point, like youre doing now, the staying upright wont be the limiting factor, leg strength will.  Squatting correctly is the most optimal way to improve the squat. Its trained isometrically, in the exact manner you need it to work, in the lift.

  Training the low back even MORE, with added exercises like deadlifts, may contribute to you actually WANTING to lean over more, to get that momentum from the low back out of the hole.  You can have a nice lower back driven squat that wont contribute shit to your sports performance.  Instead of improving your form now, you get better at having a goodmorning squat.

 Many times, excessive forward lean in the squat comes from the quads and glutes being too weak initiate the concentric out of the hole, the lean happens as a result to get into a good morning position and help the lift.  Strengthening the legs more helps this, strengthening the low back at the expense of the legs contributes to it.

I am not saying that the deadlift is an awful exercise, only that in your case I dont think adding it to your program will help you in the way youre thinking it will.  Its already trained well in your well rounded set up.  Its kind of akin to someone saying, " I flare my elbows as wide as possible on bench press and it kills my pecs, I always fail at the chest. Im going to do some pec flys to strengthen my chest, instead of tucking my elbows in some and doing the lift differently."

It's dark times like this I wish I could call upon the advice of adarqui but alas Brian Kernigan and Dennis Richie take another victim, even beyond the grave.

lol.  He would tell you to work on getting that bone density down with zercher  bench presses.

 

Stick to the plan, gotcha.

yep.  also, shoulda left that pic up, looking stronger and leaner man, nice work.

  This is the deal here, when you get your squat form on point, like youre doing now, the staying upright wont be the limiting factor, leg strength will.  Squatting correctly is the most optimal way to improve the squat. Its trained isometrically, in the exact manner you need it to work, in the lift.

  Training the low back even MORE, with added exercises like deadlifts, may contribute to you actually WANTING to lean over more, to get that momentum from the low back out of the hole.  You can have a nice lower back driven squat that wont contribute shit to your sports performance.  Instead of improving your form now, you get better at having a goodmorning squat.

It fits. When I was doing a lot of really ugly heavy GM squats, I was also pulling often and a lot. I would find a way to transfer the squat workload from my weakness (legs) to my strength (lower back and glutes). I had far worse form then than I do now. What I didn't realise until you pointed it out, is that it was caused by the imbalance of PC strength over legs!!

Many times, excessive forward lean in the squat comes from the quads and glutes being too weak initiate the concentric out of the hole, the lean happens as a result to get into a good morning position and help the lift.  Strengthening the legs more helps this, strengthening the low back at the expense of the legs contributes to it.

That was my exact experience. And since I stopped pulling heavy, my squat form has improved. Coincidence?

I am not saying that the deadlift is an awful exercise, only that in your case I dont think adding it to your program will help you in the way youre thinking it will.  Its already trained well in your well rounded set up.  Its kind of akin to someone saying, " I flare my elbows as wide as possible on bench press and it kills my pecs, I always fail at the chest. Im going to do some pec flys to strengthen my chest, instead of tucking my elbows in some and doing the lift differently."

Convinced.

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It's dark times like this I wish I could call upon the advice of adarqui but alas Brian Kernigan and Dennis Richie take another victim, even beyond the grave.

lol.  He would tell you to work on getting that bone density down with zercher  bench presses.

hahah the image.

Quote from: LanceSTS on August 08, 2012, 08:46:39 pm

  Steven, I wasnt mocking your reply there I was referring to standard dogma that comes up when this topic is discussed.  The rdl has a greater rom for the hamstrings, and if that is what youre trying to train, they win out there.  Agree with deficit deads and your points there.

Yeah, I know you were not. For the hamstrings hip extension function the RDL seems to be one of the best exercises.

definitely. I remember Stephan Fernholm on the old  bfs group saying he attributed a ton of his gains in athleticism to that exercise.  They called it a sldl,  but what he was actually doing in his videos was much closer to an rdl elevated for extra rom.   He was 6-1  and around 275.  At one of the seminars he continuously hit his cheeks against the  backboard, and had a 39 inch standing vert, 4.3 40yd dash. 

completely off topic,  but he had a wrist sprain, so instead of a power clean, he did a reverse grip power clean with 390 lol.  Literally power cleaned the weight to his shoulders with a curl grip, got very little to no arm help in the lift.

Speaking of weirdness - I saw a guy doing supinated bench presses a few days ago at my gym. Has anybody ever seen such a thing?

Speaking of weirdness - I saw a guy doing supinated bench presses a few days ago at my gym. Has anybody ever seen such a thing?

Lots of times. Google anthony clark