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Quote from: JCsBck on November 03, 2010, 06:55:08 pm

Quote from: steven-miller on November 03, 2010, 06:50:53 pm

Quote from: JCsBck on November 03, 2010, 06:26:36 pm

And gaining 65 pounds but only putting on 200 pounds on your squat is pretty lousy imo.

And your best squat was what again?

355 box squat at 182. Not impressive at all, but am I bragging about that? No. All I care about is aesthetic progress, which is why I post shirtless pictures. I don't post shirtless pictures to brag about my squat.

My point is that: You did not even get near his rate of progress in terms of strength, even if you don't care about this aspect, but yet you critique his "poor" squat gains in face of his bodyweight, although you don't even know what it means to make such progress.

I think squatting 355 at 182 is more impressive than 345 x5 (i think he did that) at 242, but to each his own.

Is gaining 200 pounds on your squat impressive? Yes. Is it impressive when you gained 70 pounds and "46 pounds of muscle". No

And I like how you try and pick apart one thing I said (unsuccessfully I might add) and ignore everything else.

I did not comment on it because I have no interest in speculating about Rippetoe's motives to post pictures of Zach. Your perception is that he did that to brag about aesthetic aspects - as if that was the only thing in the world people would have an interest in bragging about. Rip has posted his opinion on training for physique more than once and his thoughts about that lead me to believe that he does not have a motive to brag with anything related to training for aesthetics. But as I said, there is no point in discussing this and I am also not interested in your opinion on the matter.

I also see little value in this "what is more impressive" debate and I think you fail to see the point. You obviously lack the ability to imagine that there are people training for different things then to look good in the mirror and that those people don't train with the goal in mind to impress you with their amazing abs and low body fat percentage. They might not even care how much they weigh, they only care to get stronger. But I am sure this did never occur to you.

P.S.: A box squat is not a squat.

If you aren't trying to impress us with your bodyfat % or your weight, then don't bring it up.

http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/showthread.php?t=15386


What does he talk about the most in that post? His gain in his squat? No. He talks about how much muscle he gained and how "lean" he is. If the only thing he cared about was getting stronger, he wouldn't have posted any of that. Look at the comments on that forum post. They are talking about his weight gain, because that is what Rippetoe was bragging about. But no, just because anyone in their right mind can tell he just became a fat fuck, to you Rippetoe wasn't bragging about the weight gain at all, just the squat gain.


And I only pushed myself on box squats, so come at me

And weight gain is primarily about aesthetics, so I guess you are right and I am wrong. My fault. Everything is about looking good, right? It has to be...

Shirtless Pictures = Showing off aesthetic gains
Pictures of the scale = Showing off weight gain



And to get back on topic, Raptor you don't really have to put a lot of fat on. I went pure bulk for most of my time and then I did 2 weeks bulk/2 weeks cut. I think KellyB suggests 10 days bulk/4 days cut. Same idea. My results weren't spectacular, but I didn't eat enough during the beginning, but I think you'd be satisfied with 20 pounds in a year and a half.

Well my plan is to eat a lot and strength train for ~3 months and then start to cut off fat.

You'll probably end up right where you started

Why?

Well I don't feel like there's another way... I don't see one. It's not like I'm competing in powerlifting, 3 months should be "enough" for strength training.

Well I don't feel like there's another way... I don't see one. It's not like I'm competing in powerlifting, 3 months should be "enough" for strength training.

3 months is not that much but its not little either. From personal experience your main concern should be the cutting phase , it is imperative to maintain strength in order to avoid yo-yo.
So connecting that to JCs post , IMO 3 months of bulking are enough to put some serious mass and strength , but then yo umust plan the fat-loss phase really good. I would suggest caloric deficit and increased cardio combined with heavy singles ( MSEM ) workouts & big eating. It should be more like a try-catch approach , start with a scheme ( low eating + MSEM ) , see how your body responds to it , adjust , retry and so on...

void fat_loss_phase( void )
{
    project_plan = init_fat_los_plan();
    do{
        iok = attemptFatLoss( project_plan );
        if( iok != continue_current_plan ){
             project_plan = adjust_project_plan()
        }
    }while( iok != fat_loss_achieved )
}

int attemptFatLoss( int project_plan )
{
    int iret;

    if( doFatLoss( project_plan ) != succesfull ){
         iret = needs_adjust;
    }else{
        if( isFatLossComplete() ){
            iret = fat_loss_achieved;
        }else{
            iret = continue_current_plan;
        }
    }
    return iret;
}


Note that this programm deliberately doesn't have an abort case , it will continue forever untill you succeed!

GO GET IT!