Author Topic: Age vs VO2max  (Read 1604405 times)

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vag

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Re: Age vs Vertical
« Reply #1890 on: October 17, 2013, 02:48:37 pm »
+2
17 October 2013

Bodyweight@session : ~90kg
Soreness : none
Injuries/aches :  none

3/5/1 beginner template :: 1RM testing

HIGH BAR FULL SQUAT:
5@20kg ( bar )
3@40kg
2@60kg
1@80kg
1@95kg , post injury  :personal-record:
1@100kg , post injury  :personal-record:
-95kg was tight. 100kg was legit depth but had more back lean than i wanted. Still great though.

BENCH PRESS:
5@20kg ( bar )
3@40kg
2@60kg
1@70kg
1@77,5kg , all time  :personal-record::wowthatwasnutswtf:
-Where did that come from? I was expecting 75kg to be a hard grinder or miss. However 70kg flew up so i went for 77,5kg.
77,5kg was hard but not a grinder, I think i had 80kg if i went straight for it, but not after the 77,5kg.
I have never tested 1RM at bench before, best logged performance is 5x70kg and 3x75kg, but the latter had compromises in ROM.

STANDING OVERHEAD PRESS:
5@20kg ( bar )
3@30kg
2@40kg
1@50kg
0@55kg
-Failed on the 55kg, i got it moving without any push-press momentum but got stuck mid-way up.
-50kg is technically a PR because i have never done OHP in low reps. Best ever are 10@40kg / 8@42,5kg.

ROMANIAN DEADLIFT:
Did not try this, because as it would get heavy i would be stuck between RDL and regular deadlift form.
Last time i did 3x8x82,5kg and it was not too hard, i will use 100kg as max to keep form tight.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 02:54:11 pm by vag »
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

LBSS

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Re: Age vs Vertical
« Reply #1891 on: October 17, 2013, 04:46:53 pm »
0
great success!
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

vag

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Re: Age vs Vertical
« Reply #1892 on: October 18, 2013, 12:42:09 pm »
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great success!

Thanks!
Yes, it went better than i expected, as shown below:

SQUAT:
Best was 8x72,5kg , estimated 1RM = 90 kg, real 1RM = 100kg

BENCH:
Best was 6x62,5/8x60kg , estimated 1RM = 74kg, real 1RM = 77,5kg

OHP:
Best was 8x42,5kg , estimated 1RM = 53kg , real 1RM = 50kg

So only on OHP i failed to reach the predicted 1RM, and that was expected because i half-push-press the hardest reps on 3xF which i didn't do yesterday.
On the other hand, those 8-rep performances were not 8RM as i was doing 3 sets with the same load in everything, so true 1RM should have been expected to be some higher.

5 waves of 5/3/1, with 2,5 kg and 5kg 1RM increases each wave at bench/ohp and squat/RDL respectively should bring my maxes to:
Squat : 125kg
RDL: 125kg
Bench: 90kg
OHP: 62,5kg

Let's see how it goes...
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 01:47:18 pm by vag »
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

Raptor

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Re: Age vs Vertical
« Reply #1893 on: October 18, 2013, 01:07:44 pm »
0
In my opinion, when the real 1RM goes above the projected 1RM, that shows you're already at a good movement efficiency rate for that movement.

But I could be wrong in that maybe it's a sign of the actual reverse of this. Maybe when you up the number of reps you can't go as heavy because of the lack of movement efficiency (that adds up over the number of reps and makes the projected 1RM be lower than your actual 1RM).

It would be interesting to find out what the case is.

Do elite squatters have a much higher 1RM than their projected 1RM from a 5 rep set, for example?
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

vag

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Re: Age vs Vertical
« Reply #1894 on: October 19, 2013, 06:21:03 am »
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^Yes, could be either, no idea how it correlates with mobility. The 1RM prediction accuracy also depends on the rep range i think. As every other predicting formula existing, the more you go away from the real event, the less accurate the predicting becomes. A next day weather forecast is more accurate than the 5-days and even more than the 8 -days. Similarly, a predicted 1RM from a real 2RM is more accurate than from a real 5RM, which is more accurate than from a real 8RM. Plus, in my case i was not even using a true 8RM but what i lifted for 3x8, big difference.
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

Raptor

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Re: Age vs Vertical
« Reply #1895 on: October 19, 2013, 07:09:00 am »
0
Yeah but if you extrapolate the 1RM off a 5RM for a beginner/intermediate trainee vs. an elite trainee... what would the difference be?
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

vag

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Re: Age vs Vertical
« Reply #1896 on: October 19, 2013, 07:32:13 am »
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I believe that the experienced lifter will achieve a higher estimated-1RM-to-real-1RM ratio.
Kellyb quotes:
Quote
True money set training fosters an inner mindset and attitude that will rapidly increase the rate and extent you are capable of fatiguing yourself on a set to set basis. With one throw an olympic shot putter is capable of generating lactate levels throughout their body that would take most athlete minutes of activity to emulate. The more explosive the athlete the greater the ability to generate short term muscular fatigue. THAT ability to generate full and intense muscular contraction is a trait that is improved with true money set training. If you ask the average person to do a 100% maximal set of 6 or more reps they may go after it hard but they'll most likely be able to repeat that set 2 or more times. If you have an advanced trainee with lots of high intensive experience try this they likely be able to wear themselves out with one set. There are exceptions with lower rep sets because they don't create the same amount of muscular fatigue, but for sets of 6-20 this holds mostly true.
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

vag

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Re: Age vs Vertical
« Reply #1897 on: October 20, 2013, 07:16:07 am »
0
5/3/1 BEGINNER OVERVIEW:

So , since this will go in for a few months ( 4 or 5 ) i will have this post as a 5/3/1 overview. I will post each wave's prescribed sets/reps and then at the bottom the results ( best performance, new estimated 1RM ), Then the next wave etc, so with one click you will be able to see how it goes/went.

Edit : no reason of having the build-up loads here, or the deload/light day ones, i will only have the money-set loads.

Beginner variation : http://www.jimwendler.com/2011/09/531-for-a-beginner/




Wave 1 money sets:

SQUAT: ( 1RM used = 100kg )
 Week 1     Week 2    Week 3    Week 4
+5x76,5    +3x81    +1x85,5    deload

RDL: ( 1RM used = 100kg )
 Week 1     Week 2    Week 3    Week 4
+5x76,5    +3x81    +1x85,5     deload

OHP: ( 1RM used = 50kg )
 Week 1     Week 2     Week 3    Week 4
+5x38      +3x40,5   +1x43       deload
            
BENCH: ( 1RM used = 77,5kg )
 Week 1     Week 2     Week 3     Week 4
+5x59      +3x63       +1x66       deload

Wave 1 Results:

SQUAT:
5@85kg , predicted 1RM = ~92,5kg ( starting predicted 1RM = ~87kg )

BENCH:
7@65kg , predicted 1RM = ~78kg ( starting predicted 1RM = ~74kg )

OHP:
7@42,5kg , predicted 1RM = ~51kg ( starting predicted 1RM = ~51kg but with less strict form)

RDL:
9@90kg , predicted 1RM = ~116kg ( starting predicted 1RM = ~102kg )




Wave 2 money sets:

SQUAT: ( 1RM used = 105kg )
 Week 1     Week 2    Week 3
+5x80        +3x85      +1x90 

RDL: ( 1RM used = 117kg )
 Week 1     Week 2    Week 3
+5x90        +3x95     +1x100

OHP: ( 1RM used = 52,5kg )
 Week 1     Week 2     Week 3
+5x40       +3x42,5    +1x45
            
BENCH: ( 1RM used = 82,5kg )
 Week 1     Week 2     Week 3
+5x62,5     +3x67,5     +1x70

Wave 2 Results:

SQUAT:
7@85kg / 5@90kg , predicted 1RM = ~102kg ( starting predicted 1RM = ~92,5kg )

BENCH:
9@62,5kg / 8@65kg , predicted 1RM = ~80,5kg ( starting predicted 1RM = ~78kg )

OHP:
10@40kg / 8@42,5kg , predicted 1RM = ~53kg ( starting predicted 1RM = ~51kg )

RDL:
6@100kg , predicted 1RM = ~116kg ( starting predicted 1RM = ~116kg )



Wave 3 money sets:

SQUAT: ( 1RM used = 110kg )
Week 1     Week 2    Week 3
+5x85       +3x90      +1x95 

RDL: ( 1RM used = 120kg )
Week 1     Week 2    Week 3
+5x92,5    +3x97,5  +1x102,5

OHP: ( 1RM used = 55kg )
Week 1     Week 2     Week 3
+5x42,5    +3x45      +1x47,5
            
BENCH: ( 1RM used = 85kg )
Week 1     Week 2     Week 3
+5x65      +3x67,5     +1x72,5

Wave 2 Results:

SQUAT:
9@85kg / 6@95kg , predicted 1RM = ~110kg ( starting predicted 1RM = ~102kg )

BENCH:
9@65kg / 8@67,5kg , predicted 1RM = ~84kg ( starting predicted 1RM = ~80,5kg )

OHP:
8@45kg , predicted 1RM = ~56kg ( starting predicted 1RM = ~53kg )

RDL:
9@97,5kg , predicted 1RM = ~126kg ( starting predicted 1RM = ~116kg )

« Last Edit: December 31, 2013, 08:56:48 am by vag »
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

vag

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Re: Age vs Vertical
« Reply #1898 on: October 25, 2013, 07:09:04 am »
0
IDIOT!  :raging:

:rant:
I used my 1RM for the calculations above, while the program says to use 90% of your 1RM. The result? First day of squatting i did everything 10% heavier than i should. It was so hard that i looked at the percentages right when i got home and discovered my error. No wonder it was so hard, i squatted +5x85kg for my top set when that load is actually set to be used on the 3d week for +1. At least i 'ruined' only 1 workout.
:rant:

Ok, loads on the above post updated with the correct ones.

Note : I do not use .25 , i round to the closest .5 and when i go to the gym i also round again to the closest 2.5 multiple, because of the 1.25kg minimum plates. I did not apply that seccond rounding on the schedule to leave a bit of AREG. So e.g. if i am to do, say 58.5kg, i might feel like doing 57.5 or 60.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 08:24:08 am by vag »
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

vag

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Re: Age vs Vertical
« Reply #1899 on: October 25, 2013, 08:11:52 am »
0
22 October 2013

Bodyweight@session : ~89kg
Soreness : none
Injuries/aches :  none

5/3/1 beginner template
Wave 1 :: Week 1 :: Day 1

HIGH BAR FULL SQUAT ( 5/3/1 day ):
5@65kg
5@75kg
6@85kg
-As noted on previous post, loads were wrong ( 10% heavier ). Correct loads were 58,5 - 67,5 - 75,5.
Got 6 reps on the top set but form was breaking down bad, FML.

BENCH PRESS ( Light day ):
5@42,5kg
5@50kg
5@57,5kg
-Wrong loads here too, should do 38-45-52 but this is the 'light' bench day so no prob.

SEATED CHEST SUPPORTED ROW MACHINE:
10@65kg ( -5kg ) , ( +2 reps )
8@65kg ( -5kg ) , ( +1 rep )
8@65kg ( -5kg ) , ( +1 rep )
-Went down 5kg to go to 3x10 from 3x8.

STANDING CALVE RAISES:
15@50kg ( -10kg )
15@50kg ( -10kg ) , ( +2 reps )
15@50kg ( -10kg ) , ( +2 reps )
-Full pause at top and bottom of ROM.
Went down 10kg because of 2 weeks of not doing them, calves DOMS is a bitch. Despite that though, 3 days later, calves are very sore.

WEIGHTED CRUNCHES MACHINE:
15@35kg ( -3,5 kg )
15@35kg ( -3,5 kg )
15@35kg ( -3,5 kg )
-Decreased load here too to avoid DOMS ( i havent done them for 3 weeks ).
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

AGC

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Re: Age vs Vertical
« Reply #1900 on: October 25, 2013, 09:20:53 am »
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Nice work vag, I'm planning on doing 5/3/1 next winter. Will be following your progress.

vag

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Re: Age vs Vertical
« Reply #1901 on: October 25, 2013, 11:35:16 am »
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Nice work vag, I'm planning on doing 5/3/1 next winter. Will be following your progress.

Thanks! 5/3/1 looks interesting, it has this building up to a money set of XRM each time, plus the lower sets to work on form.
Too early to judge, hope it goes well.



23 October 2013

Bodyweight@session : ~89kg
Soreness : VMOs 4/5, hamstrings & calves 2/5.
Injuries/aches :  none

5/3/1 beginner template
Wave 1 :: Week 1 :: Day 2

ROMANIAN DEADLIFT ( 5/3/1 ):
5@57,5kg
5@67,5kg
10@77,5kg
-Nice. Failed on grip, remember gloves next time!

STANDING OVERHEAD PRESS ( 5/3/1 ):
5@30kg
5@35kg
9@37,5kg
-Nice. Ultra strict form, will carry on like this, no more half-push-presses.

UPRIGHT BB ROW:
10@40kg ( -5kg ) , ( +2 reps )
10@40kg ( -5kg ) , ( +2 reps )
10@40kg ( -5kg ) , ( +2 reps )
-Went down 5kg to switch to 3x10 from 3x8.

BICEPS EZ BAR CURL:
12@32kg
10@32kg ( -2 reps )
9@32kg ( -3 reps )

TRICEPS CABLE PUSHDOWN:
12@32,5kg
10@32,5kg ( -2 reps )
9@32,5kg ( -3 reps )

Biceps&triceps : not sure if detrained or tired from the 5/3/1 money sets, but felt very weak at them and regressed. See what happens next time.
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

Raptor

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Re: Age vs Vertical
« Reply #1902 on: October 25, 2013, 12:22:22 pm »
+2
Have you ever tried to get your bodyweight to somewhere at ~80 kg from 90?
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

vag

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Re: Age vs Vertical
« Reply #1903 on: October 25, 2013, 12:40:43 pm »
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Have you ever tried to get your bodyweight to somewhere at ~80 kg from 90?

Of course. This is what i do every year actually, bulk till February-March, lean till July-August, repeat. Never had great success with it though. I lose a lot of strength and muscle in the way, i don't lean, i weaken. I am probably doing it too fast, but not deliberately either, as soon as i start undereating, the scale runs down like crazy. Must have a lot to do with my built ( skinny-fat ectomorph, natural bw is 70-75kg at 183cm height ), also a lot with my age ( food partitioning , you lose more muscle when cutting and you add more fat when bulking compared to your younger version ).
Jump-wise, when i am lighter my running jumps look better, smoother and more coordinated that is, but the power output at the final point feels and looks weaker. I feel much better and confident when i can squat-power my jumps.
The plan this year : i am willing to keep adding strength ( absolute, maybe some mass too ) coming back from that long injury i had. As i said a couple of posts above i will do 4-5 waves of 5/3/1 till Feb-March again and then start a long slow cut.
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

entropy

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Re: Age vs Vertical
« Reply #1904 on: October 25, 2013, 12:50:15 pm »
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Why 5/3/1, it's got such slow progress, will take forever to get your lifts up. I dont think that's a problem if you're starting with good lifts (~2xbw for reps) but if they're closer to 1xbw then it's far from efficient. Think about it, you'll be paying gym fees, eating supplements and what not and spending hours in the gym, don't you want more out of the training than the glacial pace this program will provide? If I were in your position i'd do one of the russian programs to get your lifts up a lot before transitioning onto a slower program. But then again slow and steady wins the race, just think this is too slow for your /current/ position.
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat