Author Topic: Age vs VO2max (Read 1602591 times)

Raptor · « **Reply #2190 on:** June 16, 2014, 04:58:55 am »

You will probably get more reactive. I was having a conversation yesterday with Joel Smith about Mutaz Barshim and his jumping, and he was like "at 65 kg, you bet he's going to jump like that".

So I was like "well, what if he was 85 kg and had a 400 calf raise and a 300 squat?". And he said something very interesting, that I haven't thought about yet, which is the fact that the problem in the case of the 85 kg guy would not be strength, but the passive structural elements that would get in the way. The amount of tension occuring in the plant for these elements would be the problem that would shut down that guy.

That's why bodyweight, in an absolute manner, is important to reactivity: regardless of strength, these tendons and ligaments will get, in a high speed plant, 8 kg of additional load for every 1 kg of bodyweight you gain in a 8G plant. And once they reach their "material resistance" absolute number limits, the CNS will receive that feedback from the receptors and shut down power production.

Something to think about.

vag · « **Reply #2191 on:** June 16, 2014, 07:06:20 am »

^^^Agree with that analysis.
I already see a big difference from getting my training BW from 92,5kg to 86, but so far i was not sure about the responsible percentages between weight loss and practicing more.
I have not seen yet any significant change in jumping mechanics either. But i am feeling more and more light on my feet on tempos/sprints, together with steady dropping times there.
But looking at the jumps, although the feeling does not say much, the numbers do: SVJ went from 25'' to 26'' , RVJs went from 27''-28'' to 30''. So the 'reactive' jumps respond better.
Again, i am not sure how much of that is the weight-loss and how much all this reactivity training that I've been doing lately.
Why isolate them anyway, lower BW/BF leads to more efficient/safe plyos, so even if it was the plyos that improved the jumps, indirectly BW loss helped there too.

Raptor · « **Reply #2192 on:** June 16, 2014, 07:14:14 am »

It has to be weight loss. Reactive training usually amounts to 2-5% of results.

vag · « **Reply #2193 on:** June 16, 2014, 02:00:33 pm »

16 June 2014

Bodyweight@session : 86kg
Soreness : VMOs, barely.
Injuries/aches : none

ME RIM JUMPS:
SVJ : ~27'' , SEASON BEST!
Dropstep : ~30'' , SEASON BEST!
1-step-DLRVJ : ~31'' , SEASON BEST!
2-steps-DLRVJ : ~31'' , SEASON BEST!
Full runup DLRVJs : ~31'' , SEASON BEST!

This went even better than it looks:
I experimented with fast run-ups/plants. Instead of just 'taking the steps', i was starting 1 step back and starting as if i was sprinting, then plant and jump.
And, i dare to say for the first time EVER, it worked, i was jumping the same with my 'controlled' run-ups/plants. Jumps were easier that way too, i was jumping the same high but it felt much easier.
On the downside, it was like 50-50 on the fast ones, half of them were miss-fires that led to ~2'' lower jumps. Also, i can't yet do both, go max speed and put max power, one compromises the other. But of course that can only improve from here.

Overall ,

LBSS · « **Reply #2194 on:** June 16, 2014, 02:24:24 pm »

Raptor · « **Reply #2195 on:** June 16, 2014, 02:26:56 pm »

Quote from: vag on June 16, 2014, 02:00:33 pm

Also, i can't yet do both, go max speed and put max power, one compromises the other. But of course that can only improve from here.

Overall ,

vag · « **Reply #2196 on:** June 17, 2014, 07:11:29 am »

^^^Thanks guys!

Thinking about it, Ι decided to stop doing 'controlled' run-ups anymore. It has no meaning, if you control it you eventually regulate yourself to the same speed every time. So extra steps have no meaning, the only difference each approach has in at what plant it puts you to, angle/positioning etc. Adding steps should only mean add speed to the plant. Ok, maybe i was getting some extra speed from a couple of steps but still, 1 fast accelerating sprint-start-like step gives more speed than 4 controlled ones.
Pretty basic concept, should have focused to it much earlier!

Raptor · « **Reply #2197 on:** June 17, 2014, 07:24:43 am »

Extra steps do kinda have meaning... they make your body adapt to coping with those extra amortizations and still not give up when you jump. It also probably tends to make your body learn to be more efficient over time, and possibly accumulate more elastic energy.

vag · « **Reply #2198 on:** June 17, 2014, 07:56:47 am »

Oh, I didn't mean that i won't be adding steps, I meant that whenever i add steps i will try to make them accelerating steps leading to a bigger speed at plant. So my jumping sequence will be pretty much the same, from SVJs out to 3-steps runup, but the steps will be fast accelerating ones.
Or did you mean that controlled run-ups have some value too? I am using -and will keep using- the t0ddday's 'earn your steps' method for ME jumping days. So even if controlled plants and jumps have whatever training value too ( e.g. power output mechanics that get screwed from the high-speed plant ) I still have the drop-steps and 1-step jumps in there that are at a very controllable speed by definition, so that is covered too.

Raptor · « **Reply #2199 on:** June 17, 2014, 08:55:17 am »

Yeah I mean, let's imagine you do a 50 meter run-up. Obviously you won't be accelerating 50 meters (unless, maybe, if you're an elite long jumper or something

), but all these contacts that add up have a tendency to tire you, and it will take "more" to be able to stabilize yourself after all those ground contacts and still jump well.

So I'm giving you a big exaggeration here, that would be unsafe if you were to maximally jump after such a run-up, but if you go overboard just a bit it might be a good idea.

Say you can only accelerate well and plant to the best of your ability in 5 steps. You could and should use 7 steps every now and then, only to make your body try to adapt, over time, to some additional stimulus.

I've said the same thing about a higher box for depth jumps than your optimal box in a post a few days ago. It's just that you don't want to go overboard with it.

If your best depth jump comes off a 20 inch box, maybe try a 22 inch box (put a small plate on the box or whatever stable, small thing you can find) every now and then to overload the system a bit more than what it's "optimally" accustomed to. I guess this would be similar to overspeed sprinting or something, or to an eccentric supramaximal squat or something like that.

vag · « **Reply #2200 on:** June 17, 2014, 09:42:43 am »

Ah yes, i totally agree to that, i have always been implementing it too in my jump sessions, many times i have no progress from 1 to 2 steps but i will still go out one more step and do a few RVJs from there too. Then i will go back to the run-up that gave the highest jumps and chase a daily PR from there.
Just like you said, it is a kind of supra-max overloading, adding a little bit always helps, just make sure you don't go overboard.

vag · « **Reply #2201 on:** June 18, 2014, 07:15:14 am »

17 June 2014

Bodyweight@session : ~86kg
Soreness : none
Injuries/aches : none

Kelly Baggett's simple periodization routine

PHASE IV ( Peak )

Workout #1

9'' DEPTH JUMPS:
2x10
-Shocking difference from the 27'' of previous phase. VERY fast reactive and high.

COMPLEX :
C1 : HALF SQUAT:
5@120kg
5@120kg
-I am assuming my full squat 1RM is around 110kg now so i started easy with them, just below 110% 1RM.
Went good, bar felt kinda heavy on back but depth was good and concentric was fast. Gonna do 125 next time.
Oh, also predicted 1RM/BW just over 1,5 here,

or

, pick what you prefer!

C2: JUMP SQUAT:
2x5@20kg
-LOL, bar was weightless after the 120kg halves. I just could not feel it, i have never done such a complex before ( light after heavy ) so it was funny.
It felt like it worked though, jumps felt extremely explosive and high.

PAUSED STANDING CALVES RAISES MACHINE:
18@75kg ( +5kg ) , ( -2 reps )
17@75kg ( +5kg ) , ( -2 reps )
15@75kg ( +5kg ) , ( -2 reps )
-Weight is catching up with me. Still easy above 3x15 though.

BENCH PRESS:
4@70kg
9@60kg ( +1 rep )
15@50kg
-Again couldn't get a 5th 70kg up to tie my all time 5RM PR. Ok though.

PULLUPS:
9@BW ties

8@BW ( +1 rep ) ,
7@BW
-A 2-sets total reps PR and 7 reps on the new third set after that. Not bad at all.

vag · « **Reply #2202 on:** June 18, 2014, 02:53:10 pm »

18 June 2014

7 Days Vertical Jump Cure

Leg Raises ( 3 sets of 15-20 ):
3x15

Front Plank ( 2x30sec ):
2x30sec

Side Plank ( 30 sec each side ):
30 sec each side

Alternating Glute March ( 2x20 ):
2x20

Seated Hip Flexor Raises ( 2x5-10 / 3 seconds pause at top ):
2x10 / 3 seconds pause at top

Standing Hip Flexor Raises ( 2x5-10 / 3 seconds pause at top ):
2x10 / 3 seconds pause at top

Bilateral Glute Bridge ( 2x10-15 / 3 seconds pause at top ):
2x15 / 3 seconds pause at top

Bulgarian Split Squat Hold ( 1 min each leg ):
1 min each side. Still burnout but last time i could only hold 50-55 seconds.

Kneeling Rectus Femoris / Quad Stretch ( 1min 30sec each leg ):
1min 30sec each leg

vag · « **Reply #2203 on:** June 19, 2014, 02:43:27 pm »

19 June 2014

Bodyweight@session : just under 86kg
Soreness : hamstrings, slightly
Injuries/aches : none

ME RIM JUMPS:
SVJ : max = 26,5''
Dropstep : max = 30,5'' , SEASON BEST!
1-step-DLRVJ : max = 31'' , ties season best
2-steps-DLRVJ : max = 31'' , ties season best
Full runup DLRVJs : max = 31'' , ties season best

31'' was repeatable from all run-ups!

Of course i was greedy and wanted a PR that i didn't get, but I can't complain either. I like how suddenly getting half palm over the rim ( 10'5'' / 30'' ) is a routine jump.
In other news, my Kobe Vs are worn out, i think they compromise the plant. Until i get new ones i might try jumping in running shoes and see what happens.

Raptor · « **Reply #2204 on:** June 19, 2014, 02:58:13 pm »

Don't get too excited. It seems to me like you're getting close to that 5% max gain due to plyos.

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Author Topic: Age vs VO2max (Read 1602591 times)

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