Author Topic: Two Hands Two Feet  (Read 818769 times)

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LBSS

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #900 on: May 05, 2016, 08:58:14 am »
+1
pistols also get the VMO if you're doing 'em right. i have to do a LOT of pistols to get sore, though.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

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https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

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T0ddday

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #901 on: May 07, 2016, 03:01:54 pm »
+1
if nothing else, having mega sore glutes is cool because it makes you conciously aware of their activation all the way through the day, from getting out of bed to hitting the squat rack...and glute activation is always welcome.

like when i have sore VMOs, my knee's always feel better

Reiterating this for the 100th time - the dumbbell BBS I found out to be the BEST glute-soreness-giving exercise in existence, to me. Absolutely tremendous glute soreness. Not sure why, but it is like that.

Have you found the glute soreness to be productive though? As in does it translate into gains either in strength or muscle? Or is it just a pain in the ass  ;D (pun intended).

I don't think there is necessarily a direct benefit to any muscle being sore and you can definitely make gains in size and strength without soreness...

However, soreness indicates activation - and as we know DOMS is much easier to trigger in a muscle that hasn't been stretched under tension for awhile (think of the soreness you get after a long layoff or the first time you lift).   So if you are doing squats frequently for years and suddenly you move your foot placement or depth and you experience new soreness that's an indicator that despite doing this compound lift for years you were to some degree inactive in that muscle...

It's kind of shocking to me that two people can do the same compound movements and have completely different muscle activation patterns.  For those of us that have recovered from injury this is often a problem.  Additionally, you are going to have a personal bias for your movement patterns that depends on many factors and is probably not necessary to change completely...  However, adding another muscle (previously inhibited and inactive) to a movement can be an absolute game changer when it comes to injury prevention and to some extent performance.

In my case I really struggle to activate my quads.  Sprinting, squatting, deadlifts, front-squats, jumping, etc.  even after a long layoff result primarily in glute soreness, hamstring soreness, and even abdominal and calf soreness before quad soreness...  Unsurprisingly I don't have very strong quads and can suffer from jumpers knee because despite being inactive you will use your quads isometrically as breaks for landing or stopping as you have no other movement pattern with which to accomplish this***. 

The solution to this lack of activation is usually isolation work for the inactive muscle.  It really depends the level of inactivation - after surgery when it's completely inhibited this won't work as you can't even voluntarily activate it - so EMS stimulation can be used to get it firing again.   The absolute best thing you can do is find a closed chain exercise that still isolates the inactive muscle.  For the VMO/patellar tendon single leg eccentric pistols on a slant board are one of the best exercises you can do - like Gukl when I do these and feel sore in my quads (the only way I ever do) I also have less knee pain.  Skater jumps with an emphasis on the twisting can help people activate glute medius - which is a common inactive muscle. 

Try to keep your activation exercises higher rep and a little bit less intense if possible - you are going for muscle/strength alone with activation but remember this is a previously inactive pattern so the tendon that bears the load in this pattern might easily get overworked if intensity is too high...

*** Wanted to note that despite the fact that quads are our primary breaks I talked to a coach that has video of athletes who are so glute dominant that they find ways to get around this slightly...  When landing from a two footed jump you will see quad dominant athletes safely land without locked knees and descend into a squat to handle the shock...  Others will land with a fixed knee angle and bend the back and stretch the hamstrings on landing - I tend to do this and it's probably one of the more unsafe landings you can do...   Additionally, some sprinters will attempt to slow themselves by actually dragging their toe on the ground which will send shock on the tibialis and to the hips to keep some of the breaking force off the quads... A large price to pay and one of the many reasons why "quad-dominant" is not necessarily always a bad thing...  Ideally we should be both quad and hip-aware and able to use our hips to finish explosive movements and our quads to allow us not to get hurt... 

Coges

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #902 on: May 07, 2016, 08:59:03 pm »
0
if nothing else, having mega sore glutes is cool because it makes you conciously aware of their activation all the way through the day, from getting out of bed to hitting the squat rack...and glute activation is always welcome.

like when i have sore VMOs, my knee's always feel better

Reiterating this for the 100th time - the dumbbell BBS I found out to be the BEST glute-soreness-giving exercise in existence, to me. Absolutely tremendous glute soreness. Not sure why, but it is like that.

Have you found the glute soreness to be productive though? As in does it translate into gains either in strength or muscle? Or is it just a pain in the ass  ;D (pun intended).

I don't think there is necessarily a direct benefit to any muscle being sore and you can definitely make gains in size and strength without soreness...

However, soreness indicates activation - and as we know DOMS is much easier to trigger in a muscle that hasn't been stretched under tension for awhile (think of the soreness you get after a long layoff or the first time you lift).   So if you are doing squats frequently for years and suddenly you move your foot placement or depth and you experience new soreness that's an indicator that despite doing this compound lift for years you were to some degree inactive in that muscle...

It's kind of shocking to me that two people can do the same compound movements and have completely different muscle activation patterns.  For those of us that have recovered from injury this is often a problem.  Additionally, you are going to have a personal bias for your movement patterns that depends on many factors and is probably not necessary to change completely...  However, adding another muscle (previously inhibited and inactive) to a movement can be an absolute game changer when it comes to injury prevention and to some extent performance.

In my case I really struggle to activate my quads.  Sprinting, squatting, deadlifts, front-squats, jumping, etc.  even after a long layoff result primarily in glute soreness, hamstring soreness, and even abdominal and calf soreness before quad soreness...  Unsurprisingly I don't have very strong quads and can suffer from jumpers knee because despite being inactive you will use your quads isometrically as breaks for landing or stopping as you have no other movement pattern with which to accomplish this***. 

The solution to this lack of activation is usually isolation work for the inactive muscle.  It really depends the level of inactivation - after surgery when it's completely inhibited this won't work as you can't even voluntarily activate it - so EMS stimulation can be used to get it firing again.   The absolute best thing you can do is find a closed chain exercise that still isolates the inactive muscle.  For the VMO/patellar tendon single leg eccentric pistols on a slant board are one of the best exercises you can do - like Gukl when I do these and feel sore in my quads (the only way I ever do) I also have less knee pain.  Skater jumps with an emphasis on the twisting can help people activate glute medius - which is a common inactive muscle. 

Try to keep your activation exercises higher rep and a little bit less intense if possible - you are going for muscle/strength alone with activation but remember this is a previously inactive pattern so the tendon that bears the load in this pattern might easily get overworked if intensity is too high...

*** Wanted to note that despite the fact that quads are our primary breaks I talked to a coach that has video of athletes who are so glute dominant that they find ways to get around this slightly...  When landing from a two footed jump you will see quad dominant athletes safely land without locked knees and descend into a squat to handle the shock...  Others will land with a fixed knee angle and bend the back and stretch the hamstrings on landing - I tend to do this and it's probably one of the more unsafe landings you can do...   Additionally, some sprinters will attempt to slow themselves by actually dragging their toe on the ground which will send shock on the tibialis and to the hips to keep some of the breaking force off the quads... A large price to pay and one of the many reasons why "quad-dominant" is not necessarily always a bad thing...  Ideally we should be both quad and hip-aware and able to use our hips to finish explosive movements and our quads to allow us not to get hurt...

This is awesome. I often have trouble isolating quads and tend to feel a lot in the TFL region.

Sprinting definitely gets me in the glutes and calves. Probably the only thing I can ever remember really frying my quads was tabata sprints on a bike.
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
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Coges

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #903 on: May 07, 2016, 11:55:05 pm »
0
6/5/16

Didn't train legs. Have had a cold or something and have been getting rubbish sleep. Prob only 4 hours max. Took the day off to get some extra sleep in and worked from home.

Went to the courts to shoot around for an hour or so. Have decided to make myself more than an inside player. I have an inconsistent outside shot and have not focused on any particular technique work for years. Did some 1 handed shots for the first 20 mins or so just to get the rhythm. Worked my way away from the basket when I could hit 10 in a row. When I finally went to normal shooting I was hitting around 60-70% of shots which is great for me. Goal is to get my shot accurate enough to allow more drives as well. Worked for an hour total and felt pretty good before I left. Hit 5 3's in a row prior to leaving which was ok.
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Coges

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #904 on: May 09, 2016, 08:08:35 pm »
+1
09/05/16

Ended up training with a mate. Went to a different gym that's been open for about 12 months and it's huge and brilliant. Full boxing ring, mma cage, heaps of bags, speedball, floor to ceiling, etc. 12 cages and more racks and lifting platforms. Very nice gym and it's cheaper than mine. Thinking of making the move as it's only an extra 5 minutes drive and the guys there are way bigger and stronger than at my gym. Very motivational.

10 mins boxing and pad work to warm up

Squats-
bar x 10, 60 x 5, 80 x 3, 100 x 3, 110 x 1, 120 x 1 (post knee injury PR)

Deadlifts-
unfortunately my mate wanted to pull from a rack and it ended up being an awkward level about 3-4 inches below knee.
Pulled up to 140kg this way but felt it way too much in the back. Ended up moving to a lifting platform after that.
Pulled a max single at 140. Tried 150 but the legs were dead.
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Coges

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #905 on: May 09, 2016, 08:13:03 pm »
0
In other news I'm getting aboard the Toddday train. The more and more I look at my training and what I've done before the more and more I think I need external input and someone to tell me what to do. Also, having someone with that kind of knowledge and expertise available on here is a tremendous resource.

So I'm doing the same testing as Acole (albeit with no doubt worse results). I have bolded what I've accomplished and will add back to this post over the next couple of days:

Standing Vertical Jump – 21”
Double-Leg Running Vertical Jump - 25"
Single-Leg Running Vertical Jump - 27"
Standing Broad Jump - 2.13m
Three Consecutive Broad Jumps - 6.5m
Five Single Leg Left Leg Bounds - 7.8m
Five Single Leg Right Leg Bounds - 8.4m
Five Alternating Leg Bounds - 8.5m

Forty Yard Dash (36.5m) - 5.6s
60 meter sprint - 12.02
100 meter sprint - 16.88

200 meter sprint - forgot
Flying 30 meter sprint - forgot

Full Back Squat – 120 x 1
Parallel Back Squat - 120 x 1 (my full and parallel are too close to differentiate)
Barbell Bench Press - 80 x 4 (est. max of 90)
Standing Barbell Push Press - 60 x 1

Barbell Deadlift – 140 x 1
Strict Overhead Pullups till Failure - 8
Pushups Completed in 30 seconds - 25
Bodyweight Leg Raises till failure - 0  :-[ (assumed hanging version. knees bent no problems. legs straight I can get to parallel. that's all)
« Last Edit: May 14, 2016, 10:51:42 pm by Coges »
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
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Coges

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #906 on: May 11, 2016, 08:20:41 pm »
0
11/05/2016 - 5am

More testing today. Sleep has been pretty terrible lately and am not really feeling it but it needs to be done.

Chins-
bw x 3, 3
+5 x 3
bw x 8

Push Press-
bar x 10, 40 x 5, 50 x 1, 60 x 1, 65 x F
(should have had more here considering my OHP 1RM is 60)

Bench-
bar x 5, 60 x 3, 70 x 1, 80 x 4
(I may have had more in me here but I had no spotter and didn't want to push the envelope too much)

Hanging Leg Raises-
eh...0.
Can do knees no problems but legs can't get past parallel to floor.
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
- Zatsiorsky

Coges

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #907 on: May 12, 2016, 11:46:17 pm »
0
13/05/16

Lunchtime pushups in 30s in corporate gear- 25

Aiming to get to the court and track over the next 2 days and complete the rest of the testing.
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
- Zatsiorsky

LBSS

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #908 on: May 12, 2016, 11:52:52 pm »
0
unless i'm much mistaken, leg raises to parallel is right. it's not toes to bar.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

Coges

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #909 on: May 13, 2016, 12:00:55 am »
0
unless i'm much mistaken, leg raises to parallel is right. it's not toes to bar.

Yeah maybe I need clarification on this one. I thought it was toes to bar style. Legs to parallel is a much different ball game for me.
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
- Zatsiorsky

Raptor

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #910 on: May 13, 2016, 02:35:26 am »
+1
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2Bz55gCK9E" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2Bz55gCK9E</a>
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

Coges

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #911 on: May 14, 2016, 10:43:50 pm »
0
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2Bz55gCK9E" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2Bz55gCK9E</a>

Yeah so doing them Pavel style = 0 for me.
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
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Coges

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #912 on: May 14, 2016, 10:52:39 pm »
+3
Finally got to the track today. Did the sprints and bounds. Woke up this morning at 95kgs though which didn't inspire confidence.

Filmed the 40, 60 and 100. Will upload once I get them on YouTube.

omg I look so fucking slow...smashed the guy in red in the 100m though

Was working into a bit of wind but don't think it really mattered given the times.

40 yards
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1a06wIeO034" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1a06wIeO034</a>

100m
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhGwPUBf-LQ" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhGwPUBf-LQ</a>
« Last Edit: May 14, 2016, 11:34:55 pm by Coges »
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Coges

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #913 on: May 14, 2016, 11:33:02 pm »
0
60m
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avj4sHdEJdM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avj4sHdEJdM</a>
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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #914 on: May 15, 2016, 06:12:49 am »
0
Is that your full speed sprint? It looks like you're coasting or something. I would expect more "energy" in your sprint if 100%.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps