Author Topic: A Journey to Running Fast and Jumping High (Read 848054 times)

adarqui · « **Reply #1170 on:** March 11, 2018, 04:56:55 pm »

to me, being able to "stay low" and drive out of accel has always been more strength related .. the stronger you are, the easier it is to generate force from those angles .. otherwise, you have to straighten up earlier.

also, it's easier to stay lower if you start "lower", ie out of blocks or if your 3-point stance improves. Look at how you start, vs some of the starts in the NFL combine video I posted:

Donte Jackson @ 3:44

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KozDGo0bsJA&feature=player_embedded&t=3m44s

so, based on your start & a more "perfect 3 point start", you could be rising too early because you are in position to rise too early right from the start.

dno, something to experiment with.

some of those initial start photos are perfect.

also, it's not going to look explosive in slow mo.............

do you have a normal speed clip?

seifullaah73 · « **Reply #1171 on:** March 11, 2018, 05:28:32 pm »

Wow thanks for spotting that out, I didn't look at that part. I see what you mean. They are leaning very close to the ground. while my back is not slanted downwards a lot that's why I am rising up early.

Here is the full speed clip. With full speed you can see how bad it really is, especially i come out of the start slow so I have to accelerate again, because of coming up too early.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mliULnKetBI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mliULnKetBI</a>

Thanks for the help. Will do some research into proper 3 point starts.

seifullaah73 · « **Reply #1172 on:** March 11, 2018, 05:40:08 pm »

Some great pointers on the 3 point stance, which I learned where I was going wrong.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UNZKlJvoqw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UNZKlJvoqw</a>

Front leg shin angle dictates the posture I come out and i know from my video my front feet is flat so there my shin angle is nearly upright. I always thought of starting up by having front leg 1 feet distance from start and back leg just behind the front leg.

and some good stuff from defranco

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI01s1sgGJE - Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ASntxHpP18 - Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKXcduhMdQU - Part 3

great stuff.

FP · « **Reply #1173 on:** March 11, 2018, 05:49:22 pm »

its probably just a matter of psoas and quad weakness. your stance adjusts itself based on your strength levels. with the amount of consistent prolonged sprinting you do its hard to imagine that its a technique issue.

i have posted about the importance of strengthening psoas for sprinting in your log before but i dont see a whole lot (any) of that. that seems like a very reasonable possible cause of the slow knee drive. i prefer cable knee drives, heavier strength variations as well as lighter rfd version.

i know you do some heavy bss and squat partials but im not sure thats enough to built solid quad strength, which is why i think you go right to upright stance in your starts.

i have literally the opposite problems with my start and my quads and psoas are pretty dominant

seifullaah73 · « **Reply #1174 on:** March 11, 2018, 06:03:35 pm »

Quote from: Final Phenom on March 11, 2018, 05:49:22 pm

its probably just a matter of psoas and quad weakness. your stance adjusts itself based on your strength levels. with the amount of consistent prolonged sprinting you do its hard to imagine that its a technique issue.

i have posted about the importance of strengthening psoas for sprinting in your log before but i dont see a whole lot (any) of that. that seems like a very reasonable possible cause of the slow knee drive. i prefer cable knee drives, heavier strength variations as well as lighter rfd version.

i know you do some heavy bss and squat partials but im not sure thats enough to built solid quad strength, which is why i think you go right to upright stance in your starts.

i have literally the opposite problems with my start and my quads and psoas are pretty dominant

I did have weak quads that's why I did BSS. But I also injured my left hip flexor when doing bottom portion of the squat partial squats, it was just too painful and the injury is still lingering there.

I was thinking of adding hyper extensions to the workout after lunges. strengthening the psoas is tricky unless done in addition with other muscles.

I do cable knee drives at a lean once a week. But thanks for the advice I agree with you.

I remember before my lean was good, so i'm thinking maybe it's just a technical thing but then again I injured my hip recently so that could be a reason but it's not bothering unless when I am running.

adarqui · « **Reply #1175 on:** March 12, 2018, 09:13:36 am »

Good point from FP @ "your stance adjusts itself based on your strength levels". It's a non-ballistic movement (static position) so, you can still try and control your position, but if you don't have the strength to maintain such positions, won't be able to do it. There are things he could try and improve though, like tucking his head and getting a bit more of his weight on his hand.

Also one thing that I forgot to mention, is simply TEAM. You train alone primarily afaik - would be nice to find some more people to train with. Doing starts with a few other people or a group is much different than doing them loner-style. So beyond all of the specific training concepts, simply having people out there to push yourself against could quite possibly be the best training method.

Together Everyone Achieves More is no joke. Training with a pack, especially w/ running/sprinting, is extremely effective.

pc!

seifullaah73 · « **Reply #1176 on:** March 13, 2018, 05:23:38 pm »

Date: 13/03/2018
Soreness: quads, hamstring, glutes
BW: 10st 05lbs
Injury: Hip

Condition: It was a late morning session so started at 12:15-20pm and finished at 2:15pm. Hard breathing and blocked ears as normal. I am lifting 40kg dumbbells, which when it starts swinging it drags me with it lol.

Warm up
ankle mobility
calf stretch
seated hamstring stretch
single leg glute bridge /w bench x 5 /w 3 sec hold each rep
high knee holds on toes (lancests iso calf/hip stretch) x 20
2 different quad stretches - this really helps with the limited motion of my back left leg in the reverse lunge
back mobility stretch

Workout
Squat Jumps
- 3 x 5 @30kg

Reverse Lunges
- 1 x 5 @bw
- 1 x 3 @20kg dumbells in each hand
- 2 x 7 @40kg dumbells in each hand
- 1 x 7 @40kg dumbells in each hand split squat variation

Seated Calf Raises
- 1 x 5 @100kg
- 3 x 15 @150kg

Lying cable single leg hamstring curls
- 1 x 5 each leg @10kg
- 3 x 7 each leg @20kg

Leaning towards cable toe push backs each leg
- 2 x 10 @25kg

Cool down
stretch
walk back

Comment
It was an alright session, despite going well over the time I would like to go, so on thursday I would have to go early as at 1:15pm it's women's session, so we are kicked out lol. The lunges are very tiring and I use straps cause 40kg is really heavy, even with strap my forearms are painful and when I reached 6 reps, my shoulder's are sore because of the weight. Quads sore. When I do the split squat variation I can feel the burn in my quads but when I do the reverse lunges alternate legs for each rep then no pain in quads it's a combined effort of all the lower leg muscles especially my hamstring and little of the glutes.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My coach's insight of my starts, which is similar to what fp was saying.

Quote

You are tall with extremely long femurs, most sprinters have a lower leg
disproportionately longer relative to the upper leg, but in your case
it's the opposite. I am built the same way so I know what this is like.
It SUX for starting from a kneeling or crouched position with your hands
on the ground. Your natural tendency is you're going to want to stand up
quickly so you can more efficiently engage those super long femurs and
get full hip extension. I am sure this is likely party of the problem.
So what I suggest is when you set up in your stance try to set up with
your hips a bit higher to get a good prestretch on your hamstrings, that
should help a bit.

adarqui · « **Reply #1177 on:** March 13, 2018, 05:36:37 pm »

Quote from: seifullaah73 on March 13, 2018, 05:23:38 pm

Date: 13/03/2018
Soreness: quads, hamstring, glutes
BW: 10st 05lbs
Injury: Hip

Condition: It was a late morning session so started at 12:15-20pm and finished at 2:15pm. Hard breathing and blocked ears as normal. I am lifting 40kg dumbbells, which when it starts swinging it drags me with it lol.

Warm up
ankle mobility
calf stretch
seated hamstring stretch
single leg glute bridge /w bench x 5 /w 3 sec hold each rep
high knee holds on toes (lancests iso calf/hip stretch) x 20
2 different quad stretches - this really helps with the limited motion of my back left leg in the reverse lunge
back mobility stretch

Workout
Squat Jumps
- 3 x 5 @30kg

Reverse Lunges
- 1 x 5 @bw
- 1 x 3 @20kg dumbells in each hand
- 2 x 7 @40kg dumbells in each hand
- 1 x 7 @40kg dumbells in each hand split squat variation

Seated Calf Raises
- 1 x 5 @100kg
- 3 x 15 @150kg

Lying cable single leg hamstring curls
- 1 x 5 each leg @10kg
- 3 x 7 each leg @20kg

Leaning towards cable toe push backs each leg
- 2 x 10 @25kg

Cool down
stretch
walk back

Comment
It was an alright session, despite going well over the time I would like to go, so on thursday I would have to go early as at 1:15pm it's women's session, so we are kicked out lol. The lunges are very tiring and I use straps cause 40kg is really heavy, even with strap my forearms are painful and when I reached 6 reps, my shoulder's are sore because of the weight. Quads sore. When I do the split squat variation I can feel the burn in my quads but when I do the reverse lunges alternate legs for each rep then no pain in quads it's a combined effort of all the lower leg muscles especially my hamstring and little of the glutes.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My coach's insight of my starts, which is similar to what fp was saying.

Quote
You are tall with extremely long femurs, most sprinters have a lower leg
disproportionately longer relative to the upper leg, but in your case
it's the opposite. I am built the same way so I know what this is like.
It SUX for starting from a kneeling or crouched position with your hands
on the ground. Your natural tendency is you're going to want to stand up
quickly so you can more efficiently engage those super long femurs and
get full hip extension. I am sure this is likely party of the problem.
So what I suggest is when you set up in your stance try to set up with
your hips a bit higher to get a good prestretch on your hamstrings, that
should help a bit.

ya but also, that's why watching these NFL guys is great.. you get body types all over the place. The WR's/TE's have really long femurs, and can fly. The RB's/DB's/CB's have more of sprinter leverages. Look at how some of those WR's (wide receivers) are starting.

pc!!

seifullaah73 · « **Reply #1178 on:** March 13, 2018, 06:43:05 pm »

Quote from: adarqui on March 13, 2018, 05:36:37 pm

ya but also, that's why watching these NFL guys is great.. you get body types all over the place. The WR's/TE's have really long femurs, and can fly. The RB's/DB's/CB's have more of sprinter leverages. Look at how some of those WR's (wide receivers) are starting.

pc!!

Just watched the wr combines 2018 and although some of them skip straight to the set position, some i see they have the back leg a little more closer to the front leg and that brings their hips higher and like them also jumping out of the blocks and then transitioning into speed, you can notice the difficulty people with long femurs in making it smooth transition, which I have experienced too, but nothing that practice can't fix.

thanks

adarqui · « **Reply #1179 on:** March 13, 2018, 07:52:41 pm »

Quote from: seifullaah73 on March 13, 2018, 06:43:05 pm

Quote from: adarqui on March 13, 2018, 05:36:37 pm
ya but also, that's why watching these NFL guys is great.. you get body types all over the place. The WR's/TE's have really long femurs, and can fly. The RB's/DB's/CB's have more of sprinter leverages. Look at how some of those WR's (wide receivers) are starting.

pc!!

Just watched the wr combines 2018 and although some of them skip straight to the set position, some i see they have the back leg a little more closer to the front leg and that brings their hips higher and like them also jumping out of the blocks and then transitioning into speed, you can notice the difficulty people with long femurs in making it smooth transition, which I have experienced too, but nothing that practice can't fix.

thanks

yup ^^

exactly.

seifullaah73 · « **Reply #1180 on:** March 15, 2018, 03:38:56 pm »

Date: 15/03/2018
Soreness: left quad was so sore to the bone deep pain but it's healed up a little. calves and hamstring sore too.
BW: 66.23kg
Injury: Hip a little

Condition: It was an ok session. I had just around 1:45 mins till 1:15 am, which is ladies session, which I managed to fit.

Warm up
ankle mobility
calf stretch
hamstring anterior til stretch
quad stretch extended
single leg hip raises using bench for glutes
high knee holds x 20 sec.
lunge position hip stretch
back mobility stretch

Workout
Squat Jumps
- 3 x 5 @30kg

Reverse Lunges
- 1 x 5 @bw
- 1 x 3 @20kg dumbells in each hand
- 2 x 7 @40kg dumbells in each hand
- 1 x 7 @40kg dumbells in each hand split squat variation

The cable row was being used the rack so had to wait before I could continue

Seated calf raises
- 2 x 15 @150kg barbell

Cable still being used so had to do natural glute ham raises on the floor
using my calf strength to keep my feet under.

- 2 x 1,5,5 : some were using hands and some weren't. first set was one rep without hands and I try and keep back and hips straight but when I start to ascend it really is painful in my mid back, not spine pain but just the pain of keeping my back straight so the other sets I had to do some reps without hands and some with hand to push. After my calves were sore too near the side of the upper calf near the knee.

Leaning away from cable knee drives @25kg
- 2 x 10 each leg

Then decided to do one set of lying hamstring curls at 20kg each leg, difficult
- 1 x 7 each leg

Cool down
stretch
walk

Comment
workout was all over the place. The reverse lunge I did it without touching my knees to the floor, else that slight touch collapses my form and then I have to try and get out so I just go low enough without touching my knees on the floor, which is more easier and more controlled. others were fine.

seifullaah73 · « **Reply #1181 on:** March 17, 2018, 11:47:28 am »

Date: 17/03/2018
BW: 67.2kg
Soreness: Hamstring, calves
Injury: none that stuck out

Condition: It was snowing since 5:45am and was expecting track to be out of order, but no snow on track and it was in use, around 11:30 am. Also when I was approaching track I could hear something being played on the large microphones, as I came close it was some motivational audio about some guy and the nfl.

Warm up
dynamic/mobility warm up
activation stretches/drills
- calves, hamstring, quad stretches, glutes, hips, back
front and back leg swings

trolley pushes; walk, skip and run x 2 x 20 - 40m

a sprint drill; walk, skip and run x 2 x 20m

Workout
Sprint starts 10m x 3 - recorded the start

50m Sprints x 3

Cool down
stretches
walk back

Comment
my hamstring still sore from thursday workout and calves too. the cold not really helping in getting my self warmed up and to get rid of the doms. the sprint starts better then my previous, but I focussed too much on high hips by bringing back legs close to front legs (tip of foot in line with mid heel). Forgot to keep head down and to keep shin angle low, even though the shin angle was good at take off but at set position, angle was too upright. my knee is still a problem in not coming high enough. maybe the cold was keeping my muscles tight or something else.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9_zF1OECiA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9_zF1OECiA</a>

EDIT: I looked at christian kirk stance who is wr in the nfl combine and the set stance is similar is hips a little lower, but his more high on the balls of his foot then me, but yet the shin's angle is still similar. so maybe I can get a better shin angle if i get on to the balls of my foot, also my arm still not under my shoulder slightly in front as compared to kirk, but only slightly and my elbow is bent to try and get a little lower. so something to think about for next session.

Before, my sprint starts lean were at a good angle and my arm swing at the beginning would be big where my arm would come right back and my front arm would be high in front where my tricep was in line with my face. not my hand only come up to my face and back arm doesn't go back enough. technical problem that needs to be dealt with asap, prob sled drags anything to get that exaggerated arm swings.

LBSS · « **Reply #1182 on:** March 18, 2018, 06:12:03 am »

looks like you overcompensated a bit and now you're too bent over to get any push.

props for making it to the track in those conditions. looks nasty.

seifullaah73 · « **Reply #1183 on:** March 18, 2018, 09:37:14 am »

Quote from: LBSS on March 18, 2018, 06:12:03 am

looks like you overcompensated a bit and now you're too bent over to get any push.

props for making it to the track in those conditions. looks nasty.

Yeah, wind was really howling. I asked the staff if track was dangerous and they said no it was safe, so I had no excuse to not go especially when I saw others using it, so I thought I have to use it too.

thanks

also I will implement the push sprint starts as part of speed work as suggested by my coach and see how that helps with the lean.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKf8i7b5VfY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKf8i7b5VfY</a>

seifullaah73 · « **Reply #1184 on:** March 20, 2018, 11:58:39 am »

Date: 20/03/2018
Soreness: right hip flexor
BW: 65.6kg
Injury: none that sticks out

Condition: It was a little cold outside, when I went inside gym it was warm but window open so cold air coming in, I had a jumper on which made me too warm but when I took it off it was too cold, so had to stick without jumper. It took me 2hrs to do workout comfortably.

Warm up
ankle mobility
calf stretch for mobility
hamstring stretch seated
quad stretch in lunge position
single leg glute bridges
high knee holds for hips x 20 sec each leg x 2
back stretch for mobility
seated iliopsoas stretch

Workout
Jump Squats
- 3 x 5 @35kg
Note: I would unrack from a bench press by standing on the safety squat spotter, I would get on the floor and then lift bar on top clean position and then lift on to my back and then start the jump squats. The other time when I was stepping on the floor I stepped with my feet twisted and just minorly twisted my ankle, no pain, because my feet is flexible it didn't injure my ankle to much, but it's weird that i stepped on the floor at the side of my foot.

Reverse Lunges
- 1 x 5 each leg @bw
- 1 x 3 each leg @22.5kg dumbbells in each hand.
- 1 x 2 each leg @45kg - it was too heavy
- 2 x 7 each leg @40kg - comfortably moderate difficulty, might have to make it difficult.
- 1 x 7 each leg @40kg in each hand - split squat variation
- 1 x 3 each leg lunge walks : just an excuse to walk towards dumbbell racks.

Single leg reverse hyperextenion : used a cable and a bench, where you can adjust it to an angle for incline bench press.
- 2 x 15kg
Note: first time I did it with one leg and other leg on the floor, but other leg was assisting, so I did 2 legs, but only one leg was attached to cable, since it was pressing on the lower part of my stomach, I had been drinking water so I had to be careful on not throwing up.

Seated calf raises
- 1 x 8 @100kg
- 2 x 15 @150kg - comfortably easy

Lying hamstring curls
- 1 x 5 each leg @10kg
- 2 x 7 each leg @20kg

Facing towards cable knee drives
- 2 x 12 each leg @30kg

Cool down
stretch
walk back

Comment
It was nice session, right hip a little bit buggy, sore. the jump squats at 35kg was a bit stiff the movement but form was good. the reverse lunges, 45 kg was too much I could only manage 2 reps on each side before I couldn't carry on in terms of controlling the weight and ascending/descending in a controlled manner, but 40kg for both sets was comfortably easy, so I will have to go very close to touching knees to floor to make it harder or even do paused reverse lunges. reverse hyperextension targetted my back as well as my glutes, which felt good, but nothing in the hamstring, little bit sore. the rest were comfortably easy.

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Author Topic: A Journey to Running Fast and Jumping High (Read 848054 times)

adarqui

Re: A Journey to Running Fast and Jumping High

seifullaah73

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seifullaah73

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FP

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adarqui

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adarqui

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seifullaah73

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adarqui

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seifullaah73

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seifullaah73

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LBSS

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seifullaah73

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seifullaah73

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