Adarq.org

Not LBSS, but i think he means that general strength training >>> 'explosive specifity', unless you are already very strong.

I completely agree with that. However, I do feel that it is necessary to add some accessory exercises for muscles that aren't being trained at all with my current program, but contribute a major role to throwing.

11/2

BW: 180
CNS:??
Injuries: Adductor Tendinopathy, funny back pain during rapid flexion, ITBS-like pain in left leg for about 30 mins after waking up
Diet: 2/10 very bad

Bench Press
45 x 10
115 x 8
135 x 7
135 x 6
135 x 7

Pullups
BW x 5
BW x 7
BW x 5
BW x 6
notes:holy shit this is bad. why do I always do so poorly on pullups????

Natural GHR
Funny hamstring tingling hasn't disappeared

Lateral Leg Raises + Band (Glute Medius+Minimus):
3 x 10 each side

Standing Hip Flexion (95°):
L,R x 60secs
L,R+band x 45secs
L,R+band x 60secs

Core Circuit Superset:

set 1:
-L,R Side Plank x 60secs
-RKC Plank x 45 secs
-L,R Cable Torso Rotation x 20lbs x 10

sets 2,3:
-L,R Side Plank x 35lbs x 45secs
-RKC Plank x 45
-L,R Cable Torso Rotation x 25lbs x 8

Notes: Are Iso band holds good for Iliopsoas hypertrophy?

to be fair, physical training specifically for ultimate is at the nascent stage. but there's no need to reinvent the wheel, demands are similar to a lot of other field sports. ultimate is like rugby by without so much hitting, so you can be lighter.

w/r/t throwing muscles, i guess i'm not even sure what you mean, and i'm skeptical that any kind of isolated exercise is going to offer much benefit relative to the cost. technique > *, which obviously you know. throws are a compound movement that start at your feet. your hips, torso, shoulders, arms, and hands need to be strong enough, and that's it. if you have limited training time, which you do, i think it's much better to focus on using weights as GPP, to make your whole body stronger, than to try to build in any kind of "functional" exercise that you imagine might be specific to throwing.

think about somebody like octavia payne. she's tiny and i doubt she could close the number 1 captains of crush gripper. but she can make pretty much any throw she wants. ryan purcell is another example, a little dude who spent the summer between his freshman and sophomore years of college making 200+ throws per day, seven days a week. by his sophomore year he was handling for magnum and eventually he was a callahan finalist. i can lift more than him. i could beat him in an arm wrestling contest, even left-handed. when i was still playing, i could probably even throw as far as him. but i could not throw even close to as well.

Squat, deadlift, BP, OHP, pullup. I bet there is not a single muscle left untrained from those 5.
I did a fast search on the net and i didn't see any special stuff for frisbee, they do treat weights as GPP. The 'key' element they seem to use for explosiveness is o-lifts. So bring back those cleans, your vert-bro side will thank you too.
Also, it is not like we are making a demon out of specific exercises, feel free to add some accessory stuff as you said, it won't harm, it can only be good. Our point was more like don't get too carried away from specifity, general strength+specific sport movement practice = win.

Yeah, definitely. I'm trying to have organized periodization up until the end of winter and right now I'm leaning more towards hypertrophy/muscle endurance, but I'm excited to start doing cleans and other RFD stuff around January.

The huge problem I had with hang cleans was inability to properly catch the weight. If I tried to catch it without using my wrists, I would get shoulder pain from the bar hitting the shoulders. Then I started compensating with my wrists, at which point I would get wrist pain.

w/r/t throwing muscles, i guess i'm not even sure what you mean, and i'm skeptical that any kind of isolated exercise is going to offer much benefit relative to the cost. technique > *, which obviously you know. throws are a compound movement that start at your feet. your hips, torso, shoulders, arms, and hands need to be strong enough, and that's it.

Well I finally got around to analyzing which muscles are used the most in throwing flicks, backhands and hammers and I admit I overestimated how much smaller muscle groups are being used. The important ones that don't get much training with GPP are the Supinator (for wrist snap), Ext./Flex. Car. ulnaris (wrist adduction), and Infraspinatus/Teres Minor (external rotation for high release backhands and flick windup). I thought there would be more, but apparently internal rotation (which is really important for an explosive flick) is completely controlled by major muscle groups.

So in conclusion I'll focus more on GPP while occasionally throwing in work for the muscles I mentioned as well as balance and grip work.

ryan purcell is another example, a little dude who spent the summer between his freshman and sophomore years of college making 200+ throws per day, seven days a week. i could not throw even close to as well.

Damn. I really need to throw more, and in a more organized fashion. Also for throwing consistency I think really being in the moment and focused on what you are doing is even more important than practice. When I'm not 100% in the moment my throws are way less consistent. I think I need to meditate more.

shit this is really making me want to go out and throw. you ever come down to DC?

Not really but I wouldn't mind driving a bit sometime. Central DC is like 50 mins from Ellicott City, and if we meet halfway that's not a bad drive at all. My daily college commute is worse than that.

11/3
  no training, busy all day
60 mins throwing at practice, still too injured to play

11/4

BW:179
CNS:??
Injury: possible labral tear, possible lumbar slipped disc.. I need to see a PROFESSIONAL. Not my clueless primary care physician.
Diet: 4/10 no snacking but hectic schedule left no time for normal meals
Sleep: 3/10 very disorganized

Workout:

American Hip Thrust (1:3:1):
140lbs 5x10

Eccentric Adduction:
3x10

Box Squat:
45x5
135x5
165x5
180x5
205 5x5
note:back pain at top of movement only

Core Circuit Superset:
sets x3:
-L,R Side Plank x 35lbs x 45secs
-RKC Plank x 45
-L,R Band anti-rotation holds x 45 secs

SL Calf Raises:
Honestly I don't count these I just do them until I lose ROM or lose balance multiple times in a row at which point I switch legs. I do 5 sets of this for both legs.

wait, you think you have injuries in your back AND shoulder that might need surgery? jesus dude.

also, "being in the moment and focused on what you are doing is even more important than ANYTHING ELSE WHEN YOU practice." fixed. that is a problem for most people, myself included: going through the motions in practice rather than focusing absolutely on the skill you are trying to learn.

Nah, not the shoulder, hip labrum tear. I got my hip x-ray back today and it looks like there's no impingement, so that lowers the chances of the labral tear. Still possible tho, I have all the symptoms.

And I agree with what you said about being in the moment, I was actually going to say something like that myself but I didn't want to disagree with the emphasis you put on practice in your previous post.

11/5

BW:180
Diet: 4/10, breakfast and dinner too much high GI shit.
Sleep: 5/10, 3am-12pm because of yesterday's poorly timed workout
Injury: lumbar pain after cutting, running. Groin pain slightly increased after running, cutting. If it feels the same in the morning i'm counting this practice as a success.

Workout

American Hip Thrust (1:1:1):
165 x10
185 x10
205 3x10
note:even though i focused on not hyperextending back, back was sore after these

Eccentric Adduction:
2x10
1x20

OHP:
70x8
80x8
80x7
80x5

Workout 2 (College Ultimate team practice):

Dynamic stretches x10mins

Throwing x30 mins

Agility Ladder x15 mins: ran this shit non-stop as conditioning

6 minute plank (shit, that RKC plank workout stuff works)

Participated in some running/cutting, possibly 80% intensity. Jumped a couple of times off left leg, weak as shit, made groin injury worse.

Your symptoms sound very similar to mine and I was diagnosed with hip impingement and a slight labrum tear in my left hip a few months back (MRI). But my orthopedic surgeon was hesitant about going right into surgery because he said a slight hip abnormality ("impingement") is pretty common (about 25% of population) and there are a lot of athletes walking around with hip labral tears which don't even know about it. So it's not like if you do have a labrum tear surgery is inevitable. What helped with my hip was doing lots of glute activation work, especially for the external hip rotators (sl glute bridges, clamshells, x-band walks...) SMFR for TFL, IT band, quads, adductors, glutes and gentle stretching, mobility work pretty much daily. After 2-3 months of this and my hip feels a lot more stable again and I can squat, jump etc. with no discomfort. I might have to get the surgery at some point down the line but as long as I can still train without pain I don't see the point in doing so. Hope you get better soon.

Thanks for the input, friend.  I actually saw my x-ray yesterday, and I fortunately have no hip impingement. At my current stage, I can squat below parallel with no groin pain, and I can SVJ with no groin pain. I kinda figured my injury was because of lack of glute activation, which is why I'm doing daily hip thusts, along with stuff for glute med/min.But I definitely should be doing a lot of mobility stuff too. Can you sprint without discomfort? Because that's what's the worst for me.

Could you also let me know which of these following symptoms you had so I can make a comparison?
-Pain during Adduction, but not when hip is 90 degrees in relation to the femur. Worst pain is when femur is at an acute angle in relation to the pelvis and I try to adduct.
-Restricted femur ROM. Femur can't flex all the way
-After running or cutting, pain radiates to hip flexor area
-Groin pain not present during heavy activity, groin pain appears after heavy activity, and is especially bad the morning after.
-Lumbar pain during hyperextension
-Lumbar pain after running, cutting
-Occasional ITBS pain
-Sometimes, pain during left hip extension

I can sprint without pain yes.

My symptoms are:

- Tightness, slight pain from time to time in groin/adductor area especially after heavy lifting no pain with adduction though. Groin pain is very common in labrum tears.
- my hip flexors also tighten up from time to time but also on the unaffected side so I don't know if this has anything to do with the injury
- I have full range of motion in both hips but it feels somewhat restricted in end range on the afected side (can fix it with SMR). Internal rotation of the hip in full flexion causes a bit of discomfort/pain.. that's also one of the basic tests they do for diagnosis of labrum tears.
- At the beginning full hip extension was causing the most problems and I was limping a bit. I'm fine now though.
- I still feel like my left glute doesn't fire as hard as my right one and I have to concentrate more on proper muscle activation.

I'm glad I was able to help. That you don't have any signs of impingement is definitely good news because as you sad it makes it less likely that you actually have a labrum tear and if this still is the case they wont have to remove any of the excess bone during surgery which makes recovery easier. Let me know if you got any further questions.

Hmm. Seems like our symptoms are somewhat different. Maybe my injury is just a bad case of groin tendinopathy after all. The fact that you don't have any back pain definitely means I should get my back checked out. In any case my plan for the time being is pretty much the same no matter what injury I have: strengthen glutes, groin, abductors, core, back along with lots of mobility stuff and foam rolling. Thanks for the help!

11/6
BW:176
Injury:Groin feeling slightly worse than usual, but surprisingly good for the level of running I did yesterday. same back pain as always.
Diet: 7/10 3 relatively healthy meals, 1 high GI binge snack
Sleep: 6/10 3am-11:30am, today will be a little better hopefully

Workout

32:19 jog, 3.68 miles = 8:47 mile pace
notes: Pretty easy. I'll aim for 40 minutes tomorrow.

Dynamic warmup, 10 mins

American Hip Thrust (1:2:1), 3 minute breaks:
185 x10
205 3x10
notes:elevated feet slightly, way more glute activation, much harder lifts. Back still hyperextending.

Bodyweight Hanging Single-Leg Straight Leg Bridge (https://www.t-nation.com/training/12-hamstrings-exercises-for-hardasses), 3 minute breaks:
1x10 each leg practice set
3x10 each leg
notes:surprisingly, this felt pretty good! with some weight, I could do this for maximal strength. with focus on speed, I could do this for RFD. With slow, deliberate reps, I could do this for hypertrophy. hyperextending lumbar slightly, grip is difficult with volume.

15 mins static leg stretching

20 mins SMR

15 mins meditation

worth checking out this dude's free tutorials on how to attempt self-care of different major pain spots. i can't find the home link for this series but the articles are all found at the bottom of this one: https://www.painscience.com/articles/spot-01-suboccipitals.php.

Will definitely try some of this out. I have tried some acupuncture stuff in the past for my groin, but not for my back. I only know the basic theory behind acupuncture, so this sort of thing that tells you exactly what to do is helpful.

11/7
BW:178
Injury:Groin pain was previously isolated in the tendon, but now I can feel it all the way down my thigh. Back also feeling especially bad, I'm doing too much back loading.
Diet:9/10 carb-heavy meals, but GI is good and no binge eating. Probably my best diet day in months.
Sleep: 7/10 2am-11:30am, pulling sleep cycle back ever so slightly. I need to plan my homework and workouts carefully so I can keep this up.

Workout

Jog
Didn't want to aggravate back

American Hip Thrust
Didn't want to aggravate back

Bench Press, 3 minute breaks:
115x8
125 3x8

SL quad extension (each leg), 1:2:1, 3 minute breaks:
40x8
50x8
60x3x8
note:ok quad burn, possibly the only SL quad isolation exercise.

BSS
Groin pain during these

Pullups, 3 minute breaks:
BWx8,8,2
notes:These always seem so hard

Core Circuit superset, 1:30 minute breaks:
sets x3:
-L,R Side plank x45lbs x45secs
-RKC plank 60secs,45secs,40secs
-L,R Anti-rotation band hold 60 secs

to do:
hip flexor stretches, meditation, SMR, trigger points