Author Topic: chasing athleticism  (Read 1467500 times)

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LBSS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1530 on: January 17, 2014, 10:38:11 pm »
+1
Training will focus around basketball. My weak points are my fatness, slow/clumsy feet, fitness and conditioning and general athleticism like running and jumping. I'll be training to improve all these facets.

Conditioning, running and jumping are to be combined into a 1x weekly court session, fridays, working up to 3x a week, as I get lighter.


 :pokerface:

my advice: abandon squat goals. abandon all goals except improving at basketball. nothing has worked as well for me as having no other goal than jumping higher.

if you can work out three times a week, do three days of basketball training, with one of them being more intense and the other two a bit less so, with gym afterward: you're like me and won't abandon the gym altogether, which is great, but you need to de-emphasize it psychologically. four days of training per week? two basketball-only, two basketball+gym. yes, do dot drills and line hops every time you train.

you can do very easy conditioning at first, and up the intensity as you get lighter, as you said. that's smart. but you should be doing stuff like ballhandling, shooting drills, layups, etc. every time you train.

as far as bending over like d.rose, just consciously incorporate it into your training. when you do defensive slides for conditioning, do them in the ready position: on the balls of your feet with your knees bent and hips low. when you do ball handling drills, do them in the ready position. when you do layups, start with a few moves at the three-point line in the ready position and then go to the rim with your COG forward. when you do the dot drill, start and finish in the ready position. practice practice practice practice practice.

you didn't ask but here's how i'd set up a week for you (assuming 3x/week training):

monday
- warm up (incl. dot and line drills)
- ball handling sequence a la taylorhorton
- jump shots working your way from the rim out to three-pointers
- layups alternating left and right
- dunks
- defensive slides
- more jump shots and layups
- stretch

wednesday
- warm up (incl. dot and line drills)
- ball handling sequence a la taylorhorton
- jump shots working your way from the rim out to three-pointers
- layups alternating left and right
- post footwork
- back squat up to a heavy triple plus light-ish back-off sets
- upper and core shit
- stretch

friday
- warm up (incl. dot and line drills)
- ball handling sequence a la taylorhorton
- jump shots working your way from the rim out to three-pointers
- layups alternating left and right
- post footwork
- defensive slides
- more jump shots and layups
- front squat 3x6
- upper and core shit
- stretch

going for long walks on off days is a terrific idea, as well. the elements here can stay the same as you lose weight and get in better shape, just add volume and/or intensity as you get more comfortable. go harder on the bball stuff on monday, ease up on wed-fri.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 10:48:10 pm by LBSS »
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

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https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

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entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1531 on: January 18, 2014, 09:02:58 am »
0
I really don't know anymore lol. Thanks for your post, i'm reconsidering my approach. I'll think over it LBSS. I can accept most of your reccomendations but i don't think i can put my squats on the backburner and go back to being weak and feeble and struggling with 2 plates again. I want to keep pushing towards 4 plates, and then i will maintain that and switch focus to other areas. I feel as though that will be enough strength.

But i've been pretty depressed about my quads. I have 27.5" thighs and yet my quads can't absorb enough force :( it makes sense though, my femur leg segment is longer than average so i need more cross sectional muscular area to make it look less stick like. I think of powerlifters and their massive thighs and if that's what i need to squat a lot then maybe it's something i'm going to have to live without. Basketball players don't usually have big thighs ..



And i'm pretty sure there is a photo of wilt somewhere too



I forgot to mention last night when I went for my walk, I came across this beauty



it was just sat there on the branch completely still. i dunno how i spotted it, but it was completely camouflaged. So so cool. So I spend a good part of today reading about it on wikipedia. It's called a tawny frogmouth which i think is a wholly unflattering name for such a beautiful creature.

So there are benefits to going outside more often :)
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1532 on: January 18, 2014, 09:10:05 am »
0
Quote
as far as bending over like d.rose, just consciously incorporate it into your training. when you do defensive slides for conditioning, do them in the ready position: on the balls of your feet with your knees bent and hips low. when you do ball handling drills, do them in the ready position. when you do layups, start with a few moves at the three-point line in the ready position and then go to the rim with your COG forward. when you do the dot drill, start and finish in the ready position. practice practice practice practice practice.

Lol, when my unathletic person tries to get low... i end up looking like this

I know what a good position should be like, a college ball player would be low to the ground, flat back, hand up, one low, on balls of the foot. And yet when i think i'm doing these things i'm actually not. I wish i had coaching.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 05:58:35 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

LBSS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1533 on: January 18, 2014, 10:30:18 am »
0
de-emphasizing squats doesn't mean you have to abandon them and get weaker. i can't squat as much as i could even four months ago but i'm definitely good for 90% of that, and i have no doubt that a switch back to squat-centered training would see me recouping what i've lost pretty quickly. you can push yourself on the squat sets, you just can't expect to make gains.

EDIT: after looking at a bunch of pictures on the internet, i've determined that your defensive stance isn't wide enough to allow you to get low.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2014, 10:39:58 am by LBSS »
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

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ChrisM

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1534 on: January 18, 2014, 10:47:53 am »
0
Correct. A wider stance would allow for a few things. You'll be able to slide your feet rather than shuffle, you'll be in a better position to flatten your back which should allow you to tighten you core/be in a better position to change directions and you'll be lower which allows defending ball position/passes easier.

When I am actually playing D (rare lolol) my feet are outside my shoulders.
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Raptor

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1535 on: January 18, 2014, 04:39:32 pm »
+1
Yeah you can see Larry Nance here, his quads sucked:

Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1536 on: January 19, 2014, 01:46:35 am »
0
Thanks guys. In october, I practiced once with a wide stance. But to the point that I was being told it was too wide. Possibly it was. I need to experiment and find the ideal one and then drill it in. Also ChrisM i wasn't setting my chest/core, i didn't realise i needed to do that on defense lol. Will try that next time. Wider than my usual one but not so wide that it is encumbering for me and with chest up and core rigid.
 
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

ChrisM

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1537 on: January 19, 2014, 02:30:08 am »
0
I guess I may have worded that a little wrong. You don't want to ACTIVELY tighten your core like you would in a lift, it's just that the better posture will/should automatically do so to a certain extent. This will help breathing as well as your diaphragm won't be constricted.
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entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1538 on: January 19, 2014, 03:52:05 am »
0
Thanks Chris, that makes more sense. I'll go out and hit the courts and try it out.

Starting the new program tomorrow, will do a series of post as I work out how i'm going to do it.

Abs
Like i've mentioned this is a huge weak point for me right now. I was misled by claims that front squats without a belt would double as ab work. I mean they may have, but perhaps not as much as hyped and certainly not enough to have warranted dropping abs assistance work. So lets fix that.

While i'm heavy, bodyweight exercises like planks, chinups, raises, and rollouts will do the job nicely for stabilising strength. From past experience I know while these things will make my abs strong. They won't really make them grow. For that, I found cable pulldown crunches and weighted lying crunches work best. They really blow up my abs. Since variety is the spice of life but consistency is the lifeblood of progress, i'm going to have to figure out a way to make the best gains in strength and size without compromising the other.

I want to train abs 3x a week, will alternate btw hypertrophy and strength. Although i'm prob going do strength every workout anyway lol. It's my new obsession.

Btw LBSS this is how i will progress my squat, without obsessing with squats, just bring up my weak points. Calves, abs, upper back.
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1539 on: January 19, 2014, 06:56:31 am »
0
So i tried it out. As bad as it is to be upright, when i do the whole getting low wide thing, i feel stapled to teh floor. And i can't react to opponent. So it makes me even more useless on defense. Blah.

I did the footwork drill, same, ran some laps of the court, c-t-c layups.  And played a pickup game. I felt like a complete useless piece of immobile stone on the court. i was slow, sluggish, couldn't shoot, couldn't defend or do anything right. Passed ok. Just ok though, nothing special. Forget about dunking in games, i am not even quick enough to get an easy layup.

I think i'll play basketball on sundays.  Then maybe take monday and tuesdays off to rest. And lift weights weds, fris, sunday. Is that the way to do it? training 4 times a day is fine, but not when fucking cutting. In fact, ideally i'd be playing zero basketball and just lifting and resting while cutting. i got this so so wrong. but i think 1x a week is ok. if i can make it work. lets see.

edit. I'm just gonna suck it up and train hard. eventually the dark times will pass, and my body will have adapted.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2014, 09:06:05 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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chasing athleticism -- SPP phase -- D1W1 (of 12 weeks)
« Reply #1540 on: January 20, 2014, 05:02:43 am »
0
Bodyweight: 95.2kg/209.88lb

After basketball training last night, I actually woke up feeling great contrary to all expectation. I guess I have maintained some of the basketball fitness I had from the last half of RSR1. Which is strange considering I didn't really play any ball in all of the six weeks of RSR2. Apart from the weekly jumping or so. I'll take it.

The main thing i'm excited about today is starting training abs. I will be conservative, really really conservative to start with. Usually get that part wrong and thrash my abs too much and then i can't train properly for ages which sucks. So will probably do, i dunno, 3 sets of 2, or something like that on the ab wheel. And maybe 30s plank? Whatever, it's just a starting point will be working up from there.

The other hting i'm excited about is about making 140kg my training weight for squats.

Training
FSBS 3x100, 3x120, 1x140
BS 4x2x140
BBALL ~ 30 mins
CND - Jog around oval, 30min walk
ABWEEL - 2x3 (from knees; kinda partial reps for those too)

FSBS notes:
For future reference, FSBS is where i do x reps with FS followed by x reps with BS. It's my warmup. So this culminated with 1 rep with 140kg front squat followed by 1 rep with BS. I have decided to grow up and make 140kg (3 plates) my everyday, anyday, training weight for front squats. When I can do that reliably, i'll work up my PR from 145kg up to 150kg where i'd like to be by the end of this 90day cycle. But in the meantime i have no business going above 145kg since i'm so ill-conditioned to squatting 3 plates.

BS notes:
I'm really really bad right now at doing reps with anything above 140kg. On friday i PR'd 157.5kg and today monday i struggled to double 140kg. That's how shit i am right now. But this is why it's so important to master 140kg for reps before i can consider myself a good squatter. It's easy, somehow to do 4x6x130kg and 5x5x137.5kg as i did on RSR2, and yet put 140kg on there and i'm jelly. Not good. Lets fix that. I'm basically doing RSR but without a timeframe, so if i had got 6x2x140kg today, i wud have gone for 6x3x140kg next time. Since i didn't do 6x2, i'll repeat 6x2 weds until i've got it before attempting 6x3 and so on. It's slow steady progress when it comes, rather than on a schedule.

Basketball notes:
My shot was much better today. Felt good top down. I worked on post moves also, I have figured out a way to really put my power into moves finishing with an explosive jump finish at the end. I can't imagine many people will be able to block that, once i get it down pat. Esp with a drop step vertical around 40". Lets work on it.

I took LBSS advice and decided to train bball every time i train, this way i can't be accused of neglecting my sport. And i think i can still keep up my gym workload, at least while i'm overlyfat, it will be another story closer to 10% bodyfat, probably but while i'm 25%? fuck yea, do it all.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 11:50:51 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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chasing athleticism -- SPP phase -- D2W1 (of 12 weeks)
« Reply #1541 on: January 22, 2014, 03:27:33 am »
0
Bodyweight: 93.85kg/206.9lb

5 days into the cut and my progress looks like this:



Kind of incredulous finding my bw so low, so soon. I don't really believe it, might have something to do with the crazy heat wave going on. Will see over the next coupla days if it sticks. So far i've been pretty faithful to the diet. I'm eating 2 meals a day, a 100% clean breakfast. And a dinner which is pretty healthy, but perhaps I could use less fat in cooking my chicken? I had drumsticks yesterday, and i baked them in the oven w/ olive oil. Tasted pretty nice. Eventually i'll have to start limiting fat intake to 50g a day or something, like RFL. But right now i'm not going too hard to keep myself sane, because I know the road is long, and i'll gradually embrace further austerity as my caloric requirements subside.

I really wish I felt fresher today, but those ab wheels i did thrashed my abs anyway despite my lamentations for conservation. I feel as though I must PR my front squat by 2-2.5kg this week before my RSR peaking cinderella strength gains vanish. Maybe i'll wait til friday now. And this is why I don't like doing abs, cause they ruin my squat ambitions. But i know if i stick to it, eventually the turntables will turn.

Training
FSBS 4x100, 3x122.5, 1Fx137.5
BS 1x140, 1x145, 2x140, 1Fx140

FSBS notes:
Was a horror show when 122.5kg feels hard you know somethings up. And i actually failed a front squat, can't remember the last time that happened. This was ominous for what was to come..

BS notes:
I was planning on doing 6 doubles with 140kg. It wasn't in the cards, i haven't recovered yet from monday/sunday.

I feel like shit, i can't remember the last time i had such a bad workout. I guess there will be more of these to come :( Totally regretting those ab wheels now. But truth is, it's probably only one part of the jigsaw for why this was a bad training day. I was to do upper body, i'm gonna skip it and hope to be recovered for friday.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 09:06:02 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

LBSS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1542 on: January 22, 2014, 09:36:51 am »
0
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1543 on: January 22, 2014, 09:54:09 am »
0
From what I remember, the LTDFLE thing happens long term, after months of dieting, you might see whooshes or whatever when the last fat cells empty. Towards the end of the diet, not the beginning. The other thing is, it is usually marked by a visible change in body comp. I mean it may still be the case, for the former perhaps it can happen even early, and for the latter, perhaps i'm too fat to notice even significant changes in bodycomp. We will know over the next few days, if it bounces back up then i'll know it wasnt anything. And if it sticks then great, i'll take it!

My theory is it might be de-bloating post-bulk, i've cut dairy intake down to 600mL a day, so that might be a factor also.

Btw LBSS, i don't think i'll try 4 sessions a week. It's doable when you're well conditioned and you've got a caloric surplus. But when cutting, limited resources etc, you do less rather than more. Even 3x a week is probably too much according to our Lyle. I will stick with 3x i think after today's horror show workout.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 09:56:11 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

LBSS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1544 on: January 22, 2014, 11:02:11 am »
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that's fine, 3x a week is good. the point was just to not lose sight of what you really want to get better at.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter