Author Topic: chasing athleticism  (Read 1464636 times)

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LBSS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1515 on: January 14, 2014, 12:42:11 pm »
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accelerate, then decelerate as fast as you can.

that said, you're so nuts. i alternately love and hate it.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

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Raptor

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1516 on: January 14, 2014, 02:55:06 pm »
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Back in the day I used to sprint and then actively decelerate as fast as I could. So go all out in the sprint and then try to stop in as shorter distance as possible.

I remember some coaches asking why I do that etc. and annoying the heck out of me.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

T0ddday

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1517 on: January 14, 2014, 09:02:17 pm »
+1
Back in the day I used to sprint and then actively decelerate as fast as I could. So go all out in the sprint and then try to stop in as shorter distance as possible.

I remember some coaches asking why I do that etc. and annoying the heck out of me.

Those coaches probably didn't realize that your were so lucky to be blessed with an extreme slothlike quality that made that training possible without risking serious injury.   If a sprinter actually goes to max velocity and tries to stop in as short a distance as possible he will do exactly one rep and get carried off the track.  Sometimes you have to excuse coaches who assume a basic level of ability and apply basic training safety for that level of ability.   

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1518 on: January 15, 2014, 12:57:18 am »
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As I linked in the articles discussion section, use of a belt when squatting allows you to recruit more leg musculature. Which is great for training legs. But I find when I use a belt, while I can lift more weight in general, i can lift less weight with good form than if I didn't use a belt. So my technical beltless squat max is actually higher (~157.5kg) than my technical belted squat max (~150kg) while my belted max is around 170kg.

The only way i can explain discrepancy is by pinpointing the ability of quads (maybe hams too) to absorb force.

And no LBSS i'm not going to try that lol, it sounds like a bad idea.
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

T0ddday

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1519 on: January 15, 2014, 01:53:49 am »
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As I linked in the articles discussion section, use of a belt when squatting allows you to recruit more leg musculature. Which is great for training legs. But I find when I use a belt, while I can lift more weight in general, i can lift less weight with good form than if I didn't use a belt. So my technical beltless squat max is actually higher (~157.5kg) than my technical belted squat max (~150kg) while my belted max is around 170kg.

The only way i can explain discrepancy is by pinpointing the ability of quads (maybe hams too) to absorb force.


Currently I don't understand at all what your saying.  I don't understand integrated circuits.  The only way I can really explain how they work to myself is sheer magic... but I know that's probably not true.   That's how I read some of your explanations...  Even still, I'll bite... So you think that if you quads could absorb more force you could have better form with a belt... is that what you are saying?  WHY?

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1520 on: January 15, 2014, 02:10:40 am »
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Yes exactly what i'm saying. Based on this article,

Quote
Wearing a belt allows you to lift more weight, and even with the same training weights it increases muscle activation in the quads and hamstrings without decreasing abdominal activation.

So it seems to me my quads are getting overwhelmed whem using a belt. Too much force to absorb. Or the hamstrings are overpowering quads. Either could be happening i guess
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

Raptor

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1521 on: January 15, 2014, 04:50:08 am »
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Back in the day I used to sprint and then actively decelerate as fast as I could. So go all out in the sprint and then try to stop in as shorter distance as possible.

I remember some coaches asking why I do that etc. and annoying the heck out of me.

Those coaches probably didn't realize that your were so lucky to be blessed with an extreme slothlike quality that made that training possible without risking serious injury.   If a sprinter actually goes to max velocity and tries to stop in as short a distance as possible he will do exactly one rep and get carried off the track.  Sometimes you have to excuse coaches who assume a basic level of ability and apply basic training safety for that level of ability.   

It's not like I was doing that in spikes. And it's still took a ton of distance to stop. My biggest problem was always the ability to decelerate (which is extremely important in one leg jumping because "decelerate" equates to "changing direction from horizontal to vertical") - so that's what I was training.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

Raptor

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1522 on: January 15, 2014, 04:55:11 am »
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Yes exactly what i'm saying. Based on this article,

Quote
Wearing a belt allows you to lift more weight, and even with the same training weights it increases muscle activation in the quads and hamstrings without decreasing abdominal activation.

So it seems to me my quads are getting overwhelmed whem using a belt. Too much force to absorb. Or the hamstrings are overpowering quads. Either could be happening i guess

The reason why you have worse form with a belt is because you use heavier weights because you feel stable enough to use them due to the increased abdominal tension (because of the belt). The CNS translates that into "this is safe(r) enough for this heavier weight" so then the leg muscles are being overloaded (since they aren't used to that heavy weight) and you start to use your back more etc to compensate.

If you want to see what the belt does or doesn't, compare a squat that you're able to do without a belt with the same squat done with a belt.

So say 140 kg beltless with 140 kg with a belt.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1523 on: January 15, 2014, 05:26:45 am »
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Nope, it's not it, Raptor. I routinely work up to 152.5-155kg beltless with good form. Even 157.5kg is on the cards but my abs aren't strong enough yet, still form breaks only a good part of the way up on the ascent. In constrast 150kg is about the heaviest i can do with a belt with technical crisp form. It breaks down at the reversal point. To iterate, it is a lighter weight than my beltless technical max!
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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chasing athleticism -- RSR2-W6D2
« Reply #1524 on: January 15, 2014, 07:55:37 am »
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Training
BS 3x2x130

FS notes:
Laying off these for the rest of the week while i peak out my backsquat. Just did warmups up to 3x100kg, didn't double 125kg as usual. Btw i think i might have been using a too heavy weight for warmups, 125kg is 90% of my pr max... and i always do 137.5+kg or so which is 97% of that same max.

BS notes:
Rx was 6x2x130kg but i halved it to taper off volume for friday. These are pretty darn hard anyways.

Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

Raptor

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1525 on: January 15, 2014, 11:58:24 am »
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Then I have no idea. Maybe the presence of the belt distracts your attention and makes you lose form?
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1526 on: January 15, 2014, 12:16:05 pm »
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Then I have no idea. Maybe the presence of the belt distracts your attention and makes you lose form?

Belt doesn't. I have done thousands of reps without the belt to groove good highbar technique over 8 months or so. It's pretty much set as a movement pattern. I don't really focus on the belt, it's almost as if it's not there to me. Everything goes the same into the descent. It just overpowers my quads and the body reflexively shifts to the much stronger hamstrings and glutes.

 Idk, i've always had this problem when using a belt, it ruins my form completely. It's why i train beltless until recently when i wanted to bring up my posterior chain. Would love to know a way to fix this, but it seems i'm the only person in the world who has this problem, i haven't come across anyone else with the same issue. Most people find their form improved with a belt, i'm an anomaly.
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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chasing athleticism -- RSR2-W6D3 (The end!)
« Reply #1527 on: January 17, 2014, 09:23:33 am »
+1
Training
FS 1x145 (PR)
BS 1x157.5 (PR)
BBS 0Fx170, 1x169.5 (PR)
CR 2x15x200 (PR)
DUNKS LR plant x 12
CND 30min walk, 1x100m hill sprint

BW: <96kg

FS notes:
PR is nice and all but harder than i'd like it to be. I put it down to warmups not being ideal but then again, i can't afford to optimise warmps towards FS too much when the focus is backsquats. Only got 5kg out of RSR2.

BS notes:
Finally got that 157.5kg PR. Too hard, once again. Need more abs. I'm really disappointed i only got 5kg out of this RSR cycle.

Belted BS notes:
Well, i had a choice to make going into this workout. Go all in on belted backsquats and aim for ≥170kg even maybe 175kg while eschewing any other kind of squats for this workout. Or get 3 different squat PRs albeit at the cost of a more modest belted PR. 

But in the end I decided it was better for MY TRAINING GOALS to get 3prs in front squats, beltless high bar squats and a belted BS, than a PR only in belted squats. I failed 170kg for reasons i can't understand, it just feels so much heavier and harder than anything in the 160s. Whatever. I came close enough, 169.5kg is good enough for this cycle. I'll be good for 170kg soon enough.

Jumping notes:
So I practiced LR plant again this week. I wouldn't say it's become natural, but at one stage RL plant felt unnatural. The gap is closing. I hit a couple of dunks which felt very strong off LR. I believe I need more practice to make the transition from the plant to takeoff more seemless. There is a bit of discrete jaggedness there atm. I took a video but there isn't anything amazing there to bother you guys with.


Good news is i'm injury free!!
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 11:55:52 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

LBSS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1528 on: January 17, 2014, 09:34:36 am »
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 :goodjobbro:
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1529 on: January 17, 2014, 02:26:47 pm »
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Plan for the summer (2014)
I have 90 days to the bball tournament exactly. My bodyweight is 96kg/211lb (17th Jan). I'd like to play at 80kg/175lb, but i don't think I have enough time. Still I should be able to get 80kg≤bw≤85kg. It really depends how quickly I can get out of the 90s. If it takes over month, then foggetaboudid. But if it takes, idk, a coupla weeks, then it's in the realm of possibility. My metabolism right now is roaring, so i'll be able to get off a good start at least. And how much is postbulk bloating, water weight and how much actual adipose? Well that all remains to be seen.

Training will focus around basketball. My weak points are my fatness, slow/clumsy feet, fitness and conditioning and general athleticism like running and jumping. I'll be training to improve all these facets.

For fatness i'm going on a legit cut, there is no other fool proof way to drop 16kg of bodyweight. You can recomp a kilo or three, but 16kg is a job for a professional, honest to goodness diet.

Conditioning, running and jumping are to be combined into a 1x weekly court session, fridays, working up to 3x a week, as I get lighter. Start with dunk practice. Then followed by conditioning -- I like the the drill Todday suggested, timed coast to coast layups/dunks. I will prob go for a walk every day too while i'm heavy. I will also do slow jogs after every training session at the park on days i'm not going to the court. And maybe include longer sprints like 200m. For fun..

Feet - will do the BFS dot drill and line drills. How often? I am thinking I could do these every time i train. They can't be that hard on recovery as long as i'm warmed up etc. Shit I don't know how fix yet --  I play too vertical if that makes sense. When you look at a slow-mo of derek rose or something, he'll be like slanted over 45 degrees to the ground. How do you evolve that sort of body positioning on the court for someone who is always on his heels?

Gym - Use 140kg as my training weight,  til i've mastered it which means doing sets of 6 with it for backsquats. And it means hitting it any day on front squats.  Will maintain and build-on my maxes, ~160kg beltless bs (2xbw), 145-150kg fs (~1.85xbw), ~170kg belted bs(≥ 2xbw). Train calves heavy 1x a week, wednesdays. Train biceps 1x week, mondays.  Train abs 3x a week. Abs are my main weakness right now limiting my squats. Bigger, stronger abs will make me a beast. Not just in the gym but on the court as well. I need abs so strong, they are prominent thru a t-shirt. Abs so big they pop thru my bellyfat. I should do OHP 1x a week too, they make my traps grow and it will help on the court for building strength useful for rebounding, boxing out, etc.

Skills - Learn post moves, rebounding, shooting the 3 ball, midrange jumper, and dunking on fools from all angles.

Goals that would be nice to have but not the main focus
- 155kg front squat (~1.95xbw)
- 180kg belted backsquat (purely for the ego)
- 40" vertical

I think that about covers it, i cant think of anything else right now, if i remember i'll edit.

BRING TO BEAR YOUR BEST CRITICISM PLZ. Srs, welcome all inputs!
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 09:37:50 pm by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat