Author Topic: chasing athleticism  (Read 1467148 times)

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entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1215 on: September 29, 2013, 03:58:32 am »
0
Training
1 hour 1-1 basketball

notes:
whats the point, i'm still as unathletic and sluggish as ive ever been. i used to be quicker or as quick before i even started doing sterngth training. and the thing which which really makes this awesome is i dont even enjoy my training, so what is it all for? nothing, waste of time. i could tell myself i'm 10-15kg overweight and once ive cut down to low bodyfat i'll be awesome but that's not true either, i doubt i'll make much difference.

threw down some alley-oops off the glass to myself, yay

so not worth it, def not worth ruining a sunday sleep in. wont be able to squat properly tomorrow with sore knees but we'll see how it goes.

Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

ChrisM

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1216 on: September 29, 2013, 02:49:26 pm »
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Are you serious?!?!?! You don't think dropping 20+ pounds (forgive me I'm American lol) will help?! Man, dropping I noticed a difference dropping 7lbs and maintaining the same strength levels.

Also, how often are you training specifically for basketball or quickness? If you aren't a 'natural' athlete or player then you'll need to work on those almost as often as lifting. Just my observations from watching other players for years.
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entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1217 on: September 30, 2013, 03:02:24 am »
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Are you serious?!?!?! You don't think dropping 20+ pounds (forgive me I'm American lol) will help?! Man, dropping I noticed a difference dropping 7lbs and maintaining the same strength levels.

Relatively speaking i'll be better compared to where I am now? Maybe a bit. But relative to other people? Probably still going to be average :( The 2 guys i was playing with were killing me and neither can be said to be very athletic.  I'm pretty disillusioned now. Admittedly i only rarely ever do anything physical outside my squat rack. So i might be able to improve a little on movement efficiency by regular practice, but i was hoping to be quite a bit faster than I was yesterday. Maybe I could say it's from fatigue from squatting etc etc. But if I weigh 20+lb less then I'm instantly a lot weaker in the post. So i'll not get anything useful out of my training except maybe a wicked SVJ, which counts for nothing much I must now admit.

Quote
Also, how often are you training specifically for basketball or quickness? If you aren't a 'natural' athlete or player then you'll need to work on those almost as often as lifting. Just my observations from watching other players for years.

Once a fortnight. I suck at lifting as much if not more, so I need to devote a lot of time and effort to it, to even get modest gains, it's not like I can afford to compromise there.
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

Coges

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1218 on: September 30, 2013, 03:56:00 am »
+2
It's dangerous getting stuck in the pattern of training for a sport or activity by not actually doing said activity. Yes you're improving your strength but when will you every actually be happy with your progress strength wise? Then if you add experiences like you've just had, your will to become better without actually playing becomes even stronger so you end up spending more time away from the game. I've fallen into this trap myself and the truth of the matter is the guys who play ball more often will always be better ball players than the guys who spend more time in the gym.
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
- Zatsiorsky

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1219 on: September 30, 2013, 07:13:59 am »
+1
^When I achieve the goals in my sig, i'll be happy to switch focus onto mainly sports specific training. But perhaps I might just add a minute or two of SST to every gym training day? Better than nothing?
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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chasing athleticism -- W1D1
« Reply #1220 on: September 30, 2013, 07:49:37 am »
+5
Training
FS 1x117.5, 1x125, 1x130, 1x132.5 (PR)
BS 2x6x122.5, 3x127.5B, 6x122.5B
BP 8x83.5 (PR)
SST (5 mins)

FS notes:
I'm a dickhead and my recovery was shit etc etc, esp the basketball i played yesterday which usually WRECKS me badly for lifting. So i wasn't prepared for today by any means. But. I destoyed it! Made z big form breakthrough today which spared me from having a shit workout. I'm a better squatter after this workout than I was before it. Isn't that amazing? I had to stop myself at 132.5kg and say save it for backsquats, otherwise I was gonna put 135kg on the bar and try it with a belt, but decided against it because I don't need to use that weapon out of my armory just yet, my FS should be at least 140kg before I think about messing around with a belt.

Form change is basically to do with knees. They go in at the start of the concentric, and then OUT as I go past the sticking point. This is new for me, it's the antidote to the squatmorning sickness I so desperately needed to cure.

BS notes:
The form breakthrough from FS carried over nicely to BS as well. Seems everything has come together for me technique wise now. From shoes to form to patience with gains, i'm ready to make some decent progress now. I will be ambitious and add 2.5kg all the way up to  3x6x127.5kg on friday. The following week maybe i'll switch to 2kg jumps but for now i'm feeling good about 2.5kgs.

FS2 notes:
Omitted higher rep fs sets today. I dont wanna dig too big a recovery hole lest I can't get out for wednesdays workout. I'll do it then though if i feel good.

upper to come later tonight.might edit in a bit about the form breakthru as well just for record keeping sake.

SST notes:
I just went and shot around, dribbled, nothing special, but each time i'll def do a little bit more. Over weeks and months it will become something significant but for the moment doing anything at all is better than not, so that's the working justification and motivation. My knees didn't feel like I could do max effort jumping so I didn't push it, when my body feels good i'll do 5 SVJ and 5 RVJ, and that's it, just enough to get some improvement but not too much to hurt intefere with achieving lifting goals.

Re W1D1 restart.
I know i seem to restart every week lol but this time it's srs. It's week 1 of eating properly, going low fat mode, october will be a perfect diet AND training month. I'll keep carbs medium to high as I see fit, obviously too many will hurt fat burning but too little will kill performance so i'll err on the side of conservative. That means 100-150g, nothing crazy.  also dont worry im not going zero fat or anything, i eat a lot of fish oil (~10g day) and i'll have 3 whole eggs daily, and a bit of olive oil to cook my chicken and veges in but that's about it, no pizzas or fatty foods, no fast food at all, etc.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 03:09:05 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

LBSS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1221 on: September 30, 2013, 09:59:17 am »
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awesome job on that FS, breh.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

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ChrisM

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1222 on: September 30, 2013, 11:15:17 am »
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Nice!!!

Coges is 100% correct in his statements. The guy working solely in his game will destroy the guy just lifting and shooting once in awhile thats why its important to find a middle ground. I usually shoot around after every lifting session as a cool down and have 1-2 serious skill training sessions a week. As the season gets closer I'll ramp up the skill sessions. That is what works for me but I have always been a very natural basketball player so you may need more volume to maintain your skill or increase it.
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Coges

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1223 on: September 30, 2013, 07:45:00 pm »
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^When I achieve the goals in my sig, i'll be happy to switch focus onto mainly sports specific training. But perhaps I might just add a minute or two of SST to every gym training day? Better than nothing?

A little is definitely better than nothing. Also you may find that if you gradually add these sessions in your body adapts to the workload and you can find a decent balance between lifting and sports stuff. I don't quite have the shooting talent of Chris but have been playing ball since I was 6 (27 years) so I don't need to do too much ongoing work. Especially for the level I'm playing at. For me it becomes more of a touch issue during games. Having said that keeping your goals in mind is important. For me this will probably be my last season for a bit so I'm not going to get too carried away with skill training (contrary to what I posted about a week ago  :D)

Congrats on the PR too.
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
- Zatsiorsky

AGC

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1224 on: September 30, 2013, 10:42:58 pm »
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Nice squat! I'm going to go ahead and put that on the rankings list just to give you (and others) a bit of motivation.

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1225 on: October 01, 2013, 03:04:47 am »
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Thanks gents!

Well said, agree with everything ChrisM and Coges have said. I realised that in the best case scenario, this squatting stuff pays off big and I end up like that highly athletic spazz that used to play for the Lakers, forget his name, all the athleticism in the world but he couldn't become a good player despite getting many chances in his career and all the tools to become one. But that's not a best case I want. I should be constantly improving my skills because atm my skill deficit is much bigger than my athleticism deficit. Not to say i'm athletic, obviously i'm not, but right now my skills are rusty and far behind where they've been at my best. When I was a better played i used to play a lot, 3-4 times a week and even though I didn't gym, i could jump as high as I can now, off one leg. After taking up strength training, i transformed into a 2 leg jumper when all my life i was a 1 leg jumper. But I digress. My point is, i haven't done much athletically for my game, even though i can jump higher standing and can now dunk easily when i couldn't before, i'm not as good a shoot blocker as I used to be, nor as good at beating the defender on a drive. I'm sure if I work hard on those things I can be better than before, but it hasn't occured automatically as I hoped it would have.

One of the guys I was playing with is a hockey player, so it's not like he's kicking my ass because of more practice. The other guy is a legit baller so i could accept that argument but the hockey player was scoring on me at will and i'm taller etc. I just feel like no matter what I do in the gym, if my bench and press goes up, my squat goes up, i wont have that hardness strength quality you find in strong players. I played 1-1 with one guy last year who had that in spades, when he was guarding me, it felt like his feet were bolted to the ground, i couldn't leverage him despite having about half a foot of height on him. I guess that game specific strength which is what I really need, it comes from playing hard ME type ball against other strong players? I need to seek that out somehow.

Morning bodyweight is 196.5lb. I hope I can do better in october, would be awesome to be under 187/85kg but that's probably not realistic with my squatting focus right now. We'll see what happens, maybe I wont get stuck and can wrap up the goals in 2-3 weeks or something.
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

ChrisM

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1226 on: October 01, 2013, 10:43:32 am »
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Absolutely.  Game strength is different than weight room strength just like squat strength doesn't automatically make you fly. Both require you to practice the movement. You can be an ox with dumbbells and still get ripped going to the hole if your strength hasn't translated to game situations.  Conversely I know a 5'7" 145lb point guard that you CANNOT take the ball away from when he goes to the hoop, he wraps it up and just takes the contact.  Its hilarious to watch bigger guys getting frustrated that they can't take the ball away from some 'stick arm' guy but he has functional game strength from playing all the time.

So get out there and play, best way to improve is by playing guys better than you. ;)
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vag

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1227 on: October 01, 2013, 11:53:45 am »
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Agree to disagre with you guys.
Indeed game strength =/= gym strength, but they are still correlated. Becoming strong at the gym might not transform you from Touriaf to Kobe, but still , you will be a better Touriuaf than in the past. If you want to improve your skills, yes, you have to practice them, there is no other way. But taking your squat from 1xBW to 2xBW will give you a much better SVJ, dropstep and 1st step. Similarily a bigger bench press/push press will make you much better at blocking out. Being 5-10kg heavier will make you draw contact better. Those will make you a better player with the same skills that you had. Also, a lot depends on the position you play. I play PF. When i gym, i can blockout better, i jump higher off dropstep and SVJ which is 99% of the rebound/block/attack jumps of my game (in the paint), so fuck you fancy crossovers and pullup Js. The 5'7'' guy or Nate Robinson will still beat me. But the guy who barely beat me in the past will lose now.
Just a different perspective  :lololol:
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 11:57:46 am by vag »
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

Kingfish

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Re: chasing athleticism -- W1D1
« Reply #1228 on: October 01, 2013, 12:46:45 pm »
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Form change is basically to do with knees. They go in at the start of the concentric, and then OUT as I go past the sticking point. This is new for me, it's the antidote to the squatmorning sickness I so desperately needed to cure.

you are using too much weight if you had to grind the knees to get the rep. uneven stress on the knee is not healthy specially when supporting near-max weight.






5'10" | 202lbs | 44 yrs
reach - 7'8" (92") |paused full squat - 545x1| standing VJ - 40"|

walk more. resting HR to low 40s. 

Daily Squats Day 1 - Aug 30, 2011 and still going.

Joe

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Re: chasing athleticism -- W1D1
« Reply #1229 on: October 01, 2013, 01:40:08 pm »
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Form change is basically to do with knees. They go in at the start of the concentric, and then OUT as I go past the sticking point. This is new for me, it's the antidote to the squatmorning sickness I so desperately needed to cure.

you are using too much weight if you had to grind the knees to get the rep. uneven stress on the knee is not healthy specially when supporting near-max weight.

A lot of Chinese lifters do it and Dan Green also recommends it. IDK how to feel about it because what you say has also occurred to me as a potential trouble.

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