Author Topic: chasing athleticism  (Read 1467261 times)

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Joe

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1140 on: August 28, 2013, 06:35:28 am »
0
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3gkFt8wquw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3gkFt8wquw</a>

You can see this better from the reverse angle, but it pretty much looks like these guys squat entirely with knee action, but that the predominant motion is as much outwards as forwards, so they're sitting almost between their knees.

When are you getting oly shoes?
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entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1141 on: August 28, 2013, 06:52:42 am »
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Nice. That video should be in the beautiful squats thread! Coach taught me a similar method of squatting even down to the head jerk seen on the ascent, his reasoning was if you look down your body follows your head and then you end up turning it into a good morning. So to remain upright look up and your body will follow your head. I am paraphrasing him. Those guys have short femurs makes theirs squats so pretty and upright. I think if i break my knees first, it gives me more room to pack my long femurs into. If I don't do that, they force my hips wayyy back. Getting the romaloes in approx 2 weeks time, for my birthday.

edit, so i re-read and rewatched the video later and I see what you mean by knee action both outward and forward. Interesting. That's another thing to experiment with (the outward). I'll def try that on thh technique sets on friday. Thanks man!
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 02:24:02 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

T0ddday

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1142 on: August 28, 2013, 01:02:28 pm »
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Damn.  Yes.  Their legs are so short.  Amazing.

entropy

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chasing athleticism -- W4D3
« Reply #1143 on: August 30, 2013, 07:50:44 am »
+1
Training
FS 3Fx129 (PR)
BS 2x140 (PR), 6x127 (PR), 6x120
BP 5x87.5 (PR)

FS notes:
I had problems taking out the bar evenly across my chest today. I felt the bar was too loaded on one side which threw off my balance out of the bottom. I should have got the triple so i'm pretty disappointed about that 3rd rep.

BS notes:
Incorporated form modification from last sessions technique work. It made a difference. I got my PRs.

That was the last session of the bulk. Yay. Will do a full review in another post. Btw if anyone wants to see videos of the above lifts drop me your youtube username please.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 08:39:37 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

Mikey

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1144 on: August 30, 2013, 08:08:25 am »
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Nice work with all the PRs. Hopefully you can maintain the majority of your strength now on the cut.
"IMO, It didn't happen if it's not on vid/official"- adarqui

It's easier to keep up than it is to catch up...

Raptor

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1145 on: August 30, 2013, 08:26:37 am »
0
You've been doing awesome man!

Don't be down on yourself. Yeah you might have issues here and there but in all, you're doing really well.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism -- end of bulk summary
« Reply #1146 on: August 30, 2013, 11:09:40 am »
+2
Nice work with all the PRs. Hopefully you can maintain the majority of your strength now on the cut.

Thanks mate. I don't anticipate i'll have a problem maintaining, if anything i'm going to do better than that and actually improve my lifts. I was going so well til that friday with coach and it just threw me off the rails trying out his way. Before then I was adding 2kg a workout without a stall. I don't blame him or regret it -- i learnt a lot -- even thru trial and error during that time -- but i've just ended up going back to the way I was squatting before I met him and my form is much better and cleaner now and I feel confident I can add a lot more weight with my newly acquired muscle mass.

You've been doing awesome man!

Don't be down on yourself. Yeah you might have issues here and there but in all, you're doing really well.

Thank you! I'm really hard on myself I know, sometimes it's just venting but I do feel as though my gains have been less than I wanted. Still they're good. I'll recap them when I get a chance. Having said all that, I squatted a milestone of 3 plates today for reps without a belt, highbar without form breakdown. It feels good man!

Progress Summary



So my back squat went up some 40kg and my FS went up around 16kg. It's interesting that my FS went up without my doing any FS specific work. I just did a heavy triple before my backsquats and my backsquats pretty much drove my FS up with minimal FS volume. Pretty cool. I think it's true what they say that the BS is the superior leg exercise, it just does so much all at once. I believe I got the best out of both worlds by doing both exercises though. Before I started focusing on BS my FS was pretty much stuck. BS got it unstuck and and stayed unstuck until my BS stuck in which case my FS also got stuck lol.

I kinda regret all the time I spent doing a shitload of FS before that, it was hard work and I was struggling to edge my FS up ever so slightly by doing FS alone. Yet with BS my FS was able to progress smoothly up to 3x128 and 3Fx129. I wish I had tripled 130kg but because my BS got stuck I couldn't get that last 2 kilos.

Okay now where do we grow from here? It's quite simple. I'm about 15kg overweight right now. For every kilo I remove from my waist, i'm sticking that on the bar. So by the end of my cut my goals are quite simple - 140kg -- BS 6x140kg and FS 3x140kg. I will continue to focus on BS while working up to 6x140kg. That will be my first goal. My expecation is that this will get my FS unstuck and take me up to around 3x135kg. From there having achieved the BS goal, i'll turn my attention to FS and work my ass off adding the next 5kg to triple 140kg.

I'm kind of sick of the way I am training. It doesnt' get my dick hard. I need to figure out a way to take less of a toll on my CNS. Might have to find a better way to program my lifts. Might make a thread and ask for help.

While cutting i'm going to transition back to basketball skill training and conditioning. Will do this very slowly. 1-2 sessions of conditioning after lifting. Alternating HIIT and steady state. 

Summarising the goal for the coming cut - lose 15kg of bodyweight, gain fitness and conditioning and for strength add every kilo lost from BW to the bar. Get HBBS 6x140kg and FS 3x140kg. If i get those three things done, i'll have big visible abs, top conditioning, double bodyweight squats (FS and BS) and decent athleticism (vertical and short sprints).
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 12:30:55 pm by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

seifullaah73

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1147 on: August 30, 2013, 07:19:13 pm »
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Nice stats man.

Quote
Summarising the goal for the coming cut - lose 15kg of bodyweight, gain fitness and conditioning and for strength add every kilo lost from BW to the bar. Get HBBS 6x140kg and FS 3x140kg. If i get those three things done, i'll have big visible abs, top conditioning, double bodyweight squats (FS and BS) and decent athleticism (vertical and short sprints).

Good luck with that man, sounds good and to achieve would be awesome.
go and get it.
 :ibsquatting:
Warm up drills
   - a walk, b skip quick powerful switch (heel to hams focus), a runs, dribbles small to big to run, straight leg to runs (force, reflex, go up/forward). force to hit the ground before it hits the ground knee/hip is at 90 degrees.
   - acceleration: low heel recovery, shin angle low, drive legs back before hitting the ground and drive thighs/knee forward not up
-------------------------------------------------------------
Measuring reminder:
5 toe to heel steps = 148cm
------------------------------------------------------------------------

�Strength comes from the legs, Power comes from the torso and Speed comes from the arm.� � Al Vermeil
Arm also aids the legs in driving it down with power - seifullaah73

My Progress Log
A Journey to Running fast and Jumping High
http://www.adarq.org/progress-journals-experimental-routines/my-journey-to-hypertrophy/

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1148 on: August 31, 2013, 12:30:10 pm »
0
Last day of the bulk, hit up a buffet with friends. Ate too much. Then got involved in an impromptu challenge with a mate, had to jump up and grab a steel girder about 9.5 ft from teh ground and do pullups on it. My mate couldn't grab it but he climbed his way up somehow and did 5 pullups. I never do pullups so only managed 4 I think but I had jumped and grabbed it as per the challenge. Have to start training pullup lol.

Tomorrow Sept 1st starting my cut! Gonna be 100% compliant for 6 weeks straight, no cheat meals, no bullshit, just full compliance and get into the low 80kgs as quickly as humanly possible while getting my PRs in.

update -- so this is the heaviest I got on the bulk as of 1st sept, 201.7lb/91.5kg.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 01:26:51 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1149 on: September 01, 2013, 04:58:40 am »
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Read back thru my log, saw some interesting bits, a lot of cyclical realisations which seem to recur more or less regularly. What's that saying about learning from the mistakes of others instead of repeating them? something like that. I need to learn from my experiences better.

1.  What i've seen I have this recurring wish to improve my PC strength (for whatever reason). Partly a greener pastures thing and I keep coming back to, or continuing on with, training quads because they've served me well so far. But I dont know if they have or if that was just an artefact of losing a lot of bodyfat? Hard to say.

2. I also trained suboptimally. In feb when I dieted down to sub 75kg, I had been mainly sets of 5 rep front squats. Why?! I should have been doing doubles and triples, it's not like i was going to gain mass while in the middle of a big cut. That was dumb. I probably would have got more out of front squats if I had been doing low reps. As i've learnt now, there is such a big difference between 5 reps and 3 reps and 1s in FS. It doesn't follow the 1Rm calculator at all. I think my 1RM is 10-15kg more than my 3RM FS rather than 7.5kg the calculator predicts. Each extra rep is a lot harder than it should be. I don't have a problem with higher rep frontsquats, they surely have a place too.  But if your dieting, it's not appropriate unless it's for rehab or as a very distant assistance exercise for something else. But since it was a main lift for me, I should have been doing lots of sets of low reps instead. That's the first thing.  So right now for instance i'm stubbornly clinging to my triples though i've stalled (for 3 front squat sessions). But perhaps I should embrace doubles so long as I can progress them? 

2. I should hedge my bets. Perhaps with HBBS and FS i've got sufficient coverage for glutes, hams and back. But just in case it's ok to do other exercises (RDLs, hip thrusts, BSSs etc) even though I don't want to, it can't hurt to make a passing effort to do them with slow but regular progress. Bodybuilders routinely do a dozen exercises per session, there is no reason why I can't do one or two of these per week.

3. I'm way overfocusing on strength. I dont care about dunking, i'm not in it for the dunks or huge jumps. I wanted to be a good basketball player, which in my mind includes having excellent athleticism, true. But at this stage my skill deficit is much greater than my strength and power one. I need a lot more movement work specific to playing than I do with spending time in the gym. But. I don't like to give up on what I started, and i'm so close now to getting that minimal gold standard of 2xbw squats (FS and HBBS -- the latter for reps), that i will see it thru. I just need to slowly add back sports specific work so i'm ready for game time (~6-7 months from now).

4. As always i've neglected conditioning, it always seems to fall on the wayside. I know why it happens, sore legs don't help when you're focusing on pushing up squats. But whether I like it or not, it's just as important if not more important to have a big strong motor than raw power. I can play great defense. Or I can play great offense, but not both, because my conditioning didn't permit it last time.

5. A big one is speed. I haven't been working on getting myself faster. jumping faster. accelerating. Plyometrics. I could wait forever til i'm ready, but maybe that'll never happen and i should have started sooner and got some benefit rather than waiting for a day that isn't coming.

« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 05:00:58 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

Coges

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1150 on: September 01, 2013, 10:16:41 pm »
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3. I'm way overfocusing on strength. I dont care about dunking, i'm not in it for the dunks or huge jumps. I wanted to be a good basketball player, which in my mind includes having excellent athleticism, true. But at this stage my skill deficit is much greater than my strength and power one. I need a lot more movement work specific to playing than I do with spending time in the gym. But. I don't like to give up on what I started, and i'm so close now to getting that minimal gold standard of 2xbw squats (FS and HBBS -- the latter for reps), that i will see it thru. I just need to slowly add back sports specific work so i'm ready for game time (~6-7 months from now).

4. As always i've neglected conditioning, it always seems to fall on the wayside. I know why it happens, sore legs don't help when you're focusing on pushing up squats. But whether I like it or not, it's just as important if not more important to have a big strong motor than raw power. I can play great defense. Or I can play great offense, but not both, because my conditioning didn't permit it last time.

IMO these are two great questions? When do you start incorporating these at the expense of what else you are trying to achieve? You could strength train endlessly without ever being ready to start conditioning or working skills let alone even playing basketball.
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
- Zatsiorsky

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1151 on: September 02, 2013, 06:24:16 am »
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3. I'm way overfocusing on strength. I dont care about dunking, i'm not in it for the dunks or huge jumps. I wanted to be a good basketball player, which in my mind includes having excellent athleticism, true. But at this stage my skill deficit is much greater than my strength and power one. I need a lot more movement work specific to playing than I do with spending time in the gym. But. I don't like to give up on what I started, and i'm so close now to getting that minimal gold standard of 2xbw squats (FS and HBBS -- the latter for reps), that i will see it thru. I just need to slowly add back sports specific work so i'm ready for game time (~6-7 months from now).

4. As always i've neglected conditioning, it always seems to fall on the wayside. I know why it happens, sore legs don't help when you're focusing on pushing up squats. But whether I like it or not, it's just as important if not more important to have a big strong motor than raw power. I can play great defense. Or I can play great offense, but not both, because my conditioning didn't permit it last time.

IMO these are two great questions? When do you start incorporating these at the expense of what else you are trying to achieve? You could strength train endlessly without ever being ready to start conditioning or working skills let alone even playing basketball.

I see what you're getting at. I'll start today and do a little more each time. If I don't start working on it now it won't happen, so you're right, do something no matter how small or insignificant every chance I get. If I fail to, i'll make a note in the log for that day. Thanks.
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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chasing athleticism -- W1D1 (of W6D3 -- relative strength accumulation phase #1)
« Reply #1152 on: September 02, 2013, 06:38:27 am »
+2
Training
FS 3Fx129 (PR), 4x120 (PR)
BS 6x128 (PR), 7x120 (PR)
BP 8x83 (PR)
CU 3, 7
CND 5x100m (60% effort, 100m run, then walk back 100m and repeat)

Bodyweight: 90.7kg/ 199.96lb (So after the first day i'm under 200 already, that was certainly short lived lol)

FS notes:
Had no plan nor intention to do a 3rm today. But had a last minute desire to break my stall by sheer will power. Yeah I just don't have the leg strength, juice or endurance to do it right now. I was in two minds whether to give up on triples and just progress doubles. But decided against it. Instead repped out 120kg with the goal of 5 reps, I racked at 4, not because I was going to fail the 5th, I just wasn't sure if i'd get it, so i thought that's good enough for today. I guess i'll go for 5 next time. 120x5 is a pretty nice milestone.

BS notes:
The 6x128 was veeryy hard. On the 2nd set, I tried Kelly's screw feet into the ground cue. So not sure if it was just light for me but i was getting a nice strong bounce out of the bottom. Will explore it further, it's certainly intriguing and hey I got a PR as well so that was nice.

Conditioning notes:
First time running since summer. Feels good man. Started nice and easy, not risking any injuries, just gradual improvement, I have plenty of time til basketball starts so i'm gonna take my time but keep working on it bit by bit. I tried to focus on my technique because i'm going so slow I can actually keep a track of what my body is doing and try to make technique changes. Not that i have any idea what good technique is lol so I welcome any advice please!

Also what can I do for upper body endurance? It occured to me that running was find for conditioning lower body. But in basketball your upper body needs to be well conditioned too otherwise you can't shoot/pass/rebound/etc well either when exhausted?


Programming notes:
On mondays i'll do squat volume: 5 reps of FS and 6-8 reps of BS. Weds i'll go for the heavy triple on FS. And friday will be heavy BS day (new 3RM). Think that will give me a nice bit of variety and momentum going forward as well devoting one day to each important aspect of squatting. It just came to me organically  while working out so i'm rather pleased about it since I was a little lost for programming.

Good start to the first training session of the cut. PRs across the board! Long may it last.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 08:57:02 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

Joe

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Re: chasing athleticism -- W1D1 (of W6D3 -- relative strength accumulation phase #1)
« Reply #1153 on: September 02, 2013, 09:18:58 am »
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Also what can I do for upper body endurance? It occured to me that running was find for conditioning lower body. But in basketball your upper body needs to be well conditioned too otherwise you can't shoot/pass/rebound/etc well either when exhausted?

Long shooting/passing/dribbling practice sessions?
"i threaten to kill myself whenever my parnets tell me to get a job" - bjpenn

ChrisM

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1154 on: September 02, 2013, 10:15:27 am »
+2
I've always found the best way to get in shape for basketball is to simply play ball.

Other than that make all your practice sessions/drills harder than a game situation and do them at 150% speed. Games will feel slower and you'll execute much better also.
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