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Seated cable rows are boss. I've never heard of lying ones though.

You do know that lifting fatigues you so that your muscles rebuipd stronger in anticipation of that weight again....


so why do you think you can gain back strength like you're wanting in a few sessions?

Forgive me if im wrong but im pretty sure KF has been lifting for quite awhile to reach his strength levels.  I've been browsing your log ajd it seems your stuck on instant gratification which rarely happens with vertical training (if ever). Just be consistent and keep kicking ass man. Don't look for any magic, the magics in the work.

you have the weirdest misconceptions of how bodies adapt to stuff. you need back strength, so your solution is to DL for singles to failure after ages of not DL'ing at all, expecting that this will address your perceived strength deficit quickly and then being surprised when instead it leads to your back hurting. i can't even wrap my head around that logic.

I've only read the last few posts, but from personal experience, you can gain strength back pretty quickly if you have muscle memory. Of course it's better to be patient, but I've done similar things and seen results. Over the past year my squat has gone up, then down, then up, and down, depending on how much sprints/plyos I did. If I did longer sprints I would become hamstring dominant and it would mess up my squat. Stopping sprints, and just doing some light squats allowed me to see massive increases in strength in a few days, about 10lbs a day. For example my squat was feeling so shitty i could barely do 245lbs 5 times when I had been able to do 275 for a few reps before. SO I did 245 3x3 (easy), one day, 255 3x3 the next day (a little harder), then 265 3x3 the next day, and I was back to where I started. That's of course a lighter approach but if I hadn't had that muscle memory before I wouldn't have been able to do that. The adaptations there were all neural mostly.

Now this wouldn't have worked if I stopped for years but I would think it would still work a little if you have muscle memory. With deadlifts I've experienced the same thing, I stopped DLing seriously for about a year I'd say, but just doing some brief intense lifting brought the strength back quickly. I did heavy singles too at one point, just a few to bring back that muscle memory.

TO conclude...I think the gain strength WITHOUT ever having it, lifting regularly (any program that builds strength i mean) is the best solution. If you IN THE PAST have had great strength, I think you can safely use a different approach, an approach that involves bringing back that muscle memory and strength without a lot of volume. However going lighter and just working on form can bring back muscle memory too... so I'm not saying lifting heavy singles at the risk of injury is the best approach... I'm saying that conventional lifting is not necessary. I unfortunately don't have the data to back it up but if I searched I'm sure I could find anecdotes.

I've only read the last few posts, but from personal experience, you can gain strength back pretty quickly if you have muscle memory. Of course it's better to be patient, but I've done similar things and seen results. Over the past year my squat has gone up, then down, then up, and down, depending on how much sprints/plyos I did. If I did longer sprints I would become hamstring dominant and it would mess up my squat. Stopping sprints, and just doing some light squats allowed me to see massive increases in strength in a few days, about 10lbs a day. For example my squat was feeling so shitty i could barely do 245lbs 5 times when I had been able to do 275 for a few reps before. SO I did 245 3x3 (easy), one day, 255 3x3 the next day (a little harder), then 265 3x3 the next day, and I was back to where I started. That's of course a lighter approach but if I hadn't had that muscle memory before I wouldn't have been able to do that. The adaptations there were all neural mostly.

Now this wouldn't have worked if I stopped for years but I would think it would still work a little if you have muscle memory. With deadlifts I've experienced the same thing, I stopped DLing seriously for about a year I'd say, but just doing some brief intense lifting brought the strength back quickly. I did heavy singles too at one point, just a few to bring back that muscle memory.

TO conclude...I think the gain strength WITHOUT ever having it, lifting regularly (any program that builds strength i mean) is the best solution. If you IN THE PAST have had great strength, I think you can safely use a different approach, an approach that involves bringing back that muscle memory and strength without a lot of volume. However going lighter and just working on form can bring back muscle memory too... so I'm not saying lifting heavy singles at the risk of injury is the best approach... I'm saying that conventional lifting is not necessary. I unfortunately don't have the data to back it up but if I searched I'm sure I could find anecdotes.

yeah but he ALREADY TRIED THAT AND HURT HIS BACK IN THE PROCESS.

also, "conventional lifting is not necessary"...what does that even mean?

It's not too bad. Getting better quickly. Technically it was singles to failure, but practically speaking it wasn't, i mean I failed to break one single off the ground but I didn't fail it in the sense that it didn't even budge. Deadlifts are bad news for me so i'm going to stay away. I think it's to do with the length of my leg segments, my femur is too long and it makes it hard to set the bar up properly. No big deal, just means I can't be an olympic lifter and clean 3 plates like i once dreamed but it's okay, there are plenty of other ways to get explosive, maybe i can pull off blocks or something. That's the other thing, my plates aren't standard height so it's more of a deficit pull which doesn't help.

I agree with everything avishek said. I think i might even have been inspired by avishek and raptor to do singles. I don't care about doing reps of deadlifts because form breaks down with every rep and when even the first one is of questionable form there is no sense in doing more reps. I like the idea of working up to a decently challenging single and then leaving it there which is what I did on friday except i didn't know where to start and had to bisect between 150kg and 130kg to find the right weight (140kg).

Also chris, i still have the muscle on my lower back, can touch and feel it there my erectors are still there. I just need to remind them how to be strong. I'll try the exercises mentioned like cable & barbell rows and heavy rack pulls.

Cool down. That's key. Meditation/yoga, again. DOn't neglect. Are you cooling down appropriately?

Thanks man. Nope, never do any cool downs. What is a cool down? lol. I see people do self massage mobility movements after workouts but ive always approached that stuff as something you do to prepare for a workout, it never occured to me that it would be useful after a workout, you know? I'll try meditation and yoga after tomorrows workout, see what happens. Should I try to actively lower my core temperature too?

 

Quote from: entropy on August 05, 2013, 11:19:24 am

Not joking. Which variant of cable row does KF do, seated or the lying one?

i do one-hand standing cable rows with the off-hand bracing to keep me perpendicular to the cable resistance.

this gives me mass on the mid back, rear delts and forearms and NOT for the spinal erectors. the braced off-hand removes as much of the erectors as i can to not fatigue them.

best torso-stabilizing exercise aside from squats - i do high repetition weighted back extensions (3x45s on GHR bench).

I actually just considered joining a gym just to use a GHR bench after reading your post lol. It's cheaper than actually buying one ($600).  Yeah mate the torso stabilisation is what i'm after for my heavy 6-rep highbar backsquats. Could I join a gym for a few weeks and just build up my back strength enough to get my squats nice and stable and then stop doing them or will I need to keep doing them to keep the benefits? I'm not sure.

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Found a shiny 6 foot steel pipe to use as my practice bar, i was just looking for a broom handle but this is much nicer. Doing the classic lifts from the hang. Turns out i'm good at snatching, it comes so naturally to me. Cleans are the opposite. My long arms make the rack impossible/difficult. With the snatch, the wider grip suits my long arms nicely. But this is just broom stick work yet so it's early. I already think i'm going to give up on cleans though, it's not a natural exercise for me and I think for us wannabe athletes snatches are a better tool anyway. I remember Lance saying the snatch is the gold standard for athletic performance, and that the front squat is a proxy to it, and a backsquat is a proxy to the front squat and so on. It's nice when an exercise comes naturally, this is what it must be like to be a normal person.  Might update this post with a video later, i took one but haven't watched it yet.

You know what would be cool. If somehow taking a wide grip on the bar ala snatch actually allows me to do a nice pull from the floor. That would fill me with joy but I should temper my expectations and assume the worst. We'll see.

Oh word. I usually take dog out for a walk in the evenings except on training days when i'm too busy working out. Didn't realise it was costing me a valuable cool down. But i'll now make the time for a slow jog. I just hate being so wired up and unable to sleep, ruins recovery! Can't wait to try this out tonight. I'm cleaning up sleep hygiene - last night i put my phone far from me where I couldn't reach it from bed. Fell asleep much quicker and easier than normal. Might make that a permanent rule now.

KF just recommended Good mornings for upright torso stabilisation. Unlike deadlifts -  I can actually do that exercise very well, safely and i'm good at it. So i'll make that my defacto stable core exercise from now on. Make sure to take video and check out that i'm doing them adequately.

Today is a big milestone for my squats - parity between front squats and backsquats. Hope I get both PRs.