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entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #915 on: June 02, 2013, 03:17:43 am »
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Entropy, whatever you choose I hope for the absolute best for you bud, I hope you dont take any of this as negativity towards you at all, we want to see you keep progressing like a bosshawg like you have in the past.  Dont get frustrated, plan smart and then kill it like you have been.

No probs. Will do! I am due to change things up since 10 weeks of training are up today so it's not unwelcome criticism by any means. It helps a lot to organise what I want to do next. I'm looking forward to the next 12 weeks. Want to do a better job than I have in the past and I think planning workouts will definitely go a long way.
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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chasing athleticism -- new program preplan
« Reply #916 on: June 02, 2013, 04:31:17 am »
0
Duration: 12 weeks, 3x weekly,  MWF
Training Goals: FS 5x120-125kg/135-140kg max @ BW of 75kg
                         BP 6x90kg / 105kg max
                         OHP 5x65kg.


Front squats
120kg for 5 at the minimum. My best fiver is 110kg but i've done 4x116kg. So that's a big ask but may be doable with smarter training. Perhaps it's possible to go as far as 5x125kg. Very ambitious yes but there are a few differences from what i've done in the past. I've usually split up squatting half-half FS:BS training whereas now i'm FS only, at least until my right hip flexor is fully healed. The other thing is i'm not training for basketball this time. So that frees up recovery that will go towards progressing front squat. I have to believe that when I had a 6x117.5kg/140kg max HBBS that I was much stronger than I am now that i'm not backsquatting. Still. Specialising on FS might make up for that. It remains to be seen how far I can go with just FS alone though.

The problem i've had in the past is when I did a lot of volume with FS, my knees didn't enjoy that too much. With mediumish volume my knees are happy and never complain. So i'll have to watch that the volume isn't too much but I can't progress without sufficient volume either so i'll have to get the balance just right.

While not backsquatting, i might try doing GMs for assistance. Not saying I need them. But it's worth a shot, if it doesn't help then i'll drop them. Also thinking I should give RDLs another shot, if for no other reason than to keep a pull in my training so when I eventually incorporate Olympic lifting for athleticism i wont be too weak at pulling.

I'll freestyle and experiment the first 2 weeks. And then based on the feedback I receive from my body and performance i'll go with that for the remaining 10wks. I have a good idea how i'll structure it though.

I want to rep 115kg for 5 first w/ stimulants and also without. So i'll rep it for 4 first. Which i've done already in the past w/ stimulants but I need to get back there again. So i'll only do it say Mondays or fridays. But I need regular  PRs too and they're all sweet, whether 1-5 reps. So on fridays I will probably attempt a 2nd one for 1-4 reps after attempting the 5.   And then wednesdays workouts, I haven't decided what I need to do there. I think in the past I have erred there thinking more when I should have been thinking less is better. That will be an important change.

That's the rough plan for now, will make it concrete after seeing how it goes after the first 2 wks.

Summary
Mondays: No stimulants, at most 1 heavy PR set w/o stimulants (w/ milestone weight 3-5x115kg/120kg/125kg etc), followed by mid-high volume (25-30 reps @ 80-85%)
Weds: No stimulants, low-mid volume (15-20 reps), low intensity (80%), no heavy PRs.
Fridays: Stimulants, upto 2 sets heavy PRs (1-5 reps per set, 90+%) and then mid volume (total of 15-20 reps @ 80-85%)


BP & OHP
6x90kg /105kg max would be amazing. I think if I keep up the pressing i'll def get there, esp with recent technique improvements. Really excited about this more than anything else. Bench PRs are so sparse for me, i can't even remember the last time I got one.

OHP was going really well before pec injury. I had reached 3x65kg and 5x60.5kg. Not sure where I am at right now. But will rebuild back and strive for 5x65kg. That should put be awfully close to having a BW press which will be sick.

Other areas
I feel as though I should be sprinting at least 1x a week. Not too crazy but just enough to keep my body familar with the movement. Same with jumping and basketball. I have often neglected maintaining skills while focusing on strength training, this time around i'll avoid that. Maybe 1-2x go down to shoot hoops and practice moves. Even if it's only 10 mins or so.

Assistance exercises:
As much as I can without intefering with BP progrss, i should look to add back chinups for some ab work. Also try the wheel. It's a shit exercise i know but better than nothing. Maybe crunches as well. Wednesday might be a good day for these exotic exercises.Assistance exercises for arms, legs, back and core go on wednesday and fridays. Basketball drills (pick 3 good ones and get practice them hard) + and skill work 1-2x a week, after workouts.


Also read this post of gary's recently.
Quote
2013-04-16
You're probably doing it wrong.

That's the impression I'm left with after each corrective session. There are so many things that I've done wrong over the years that have led to weaknesses, compensation and injury that I can't imagine that anyone consistently gets it right.

I've said before that the best athletes are those whose bodies have a knack for doing things more right than the rest of us do. So they survive the longest and can go the furthest in terms of strength, speed and skill. The rest of us...I wonder if we should ever do anything physically challenging (barbells, running, jumping, etc) without the close eye of an expert staff.

This may seem extreme, but blame modern life. Seems that it makes us extremely dysfunctional. Shoes too early in childhood can lead to weak feet that will lead to ankle, knee and back problems later if one runs or lifts hard. Never squatting beyond early childhood, not even to defecate, will lead to weaknesses and compensations and injury should one decide to squat later. If I'd spent my entire life from early childhood running and jumping and climbing, I wouldn't have to be doing this corrective treatment now.

But how many of us decide to become badasses only later in life, after a childhood and adolescence and early adulthood getting weaker in crucial areas? And then start to load aggressively and get stronger in the faulty patterns established by a lifetime of letting key muscles get weaker? Then we start to compensate and continue to load so that we get very, very strong in the wrong pattern. Then we get plateau and keep getting injured.

My knees just keep on getting better rapidly. The treatment is erasing the old contraction patterns so that my joints aren't getting beat up by everything I do. So they can finally heal. And they are healing very rapidly. I have a range of motion and ease of movement in my knees that I haven't seen in years. All that persistent inflammation is being flushed out.

The sessions, however, are getting brutally hard...and not a little demoralizing. Basically I do a few sets of five sits with increasing amounts of current. And in each session the last set or two pushes me to new heights. The idea is that when I'm "fixed", I'll have no problem doing the movement properly even under the highest current. But I'm not "fixed" yet. I get able to handle more current with each session, but that is only because Chad takes me to my limits each session. This is way harder and more intimidating than going for new maxes in the squat.

Higher levels bring pain in the "hot spots", especially as one approaches key joint angles. I get to the point where just standing still causes a lot of discomfort and bending the knees feels like I'm bending them while they are being crushed by cars while someone is trying to hammer an icepick through my kneecaps. Yes, it really hurts that much. I have to approach new levels by bending just an inch or two at first. It does get easier immediately because the body immediately starts to adapt because of the current causing so many hundreds of contractions with the new recruitment patterns. The hot spots literally start to melt away with the first rep or two. But overcoming the initial pain of the first rep at higher levels takes a lot of psyching up for me. Over time, levels of current that used to be painful become a breeze to move through. That's a sign that progress is occurring.

It's very interesting. As I get better at moving correctly under the load of the current, my muscles act on my joint better and allow the healing to occur, like I mentioned above. So to get through the pain, I tell myself that I am resolving all the pain and frustration my knee problems have been causing me for years. I have to go to my "happy place" because relaxation is vital. Breath-holding and tension are also compensations that mask a lack of strength in the proper places.

So, progress continues. But there is so much to fix and so much to keep in mind to prevent relapse that the thought of squatting or jumping or running or lifting seems pointless. The current is just a tool to enhance the speed of recovery caused by engaging the right patterns. Other movements include wall sits, iso lunges and one-legged deadlifts and squats...but these have to be done precisely, engaging the proper muscles at the proper times. It is very frustrating and very exhausting. Like I mentioned before, the owner of my gym is a very buff, athletic looking guy who is spending all his time just correcting stuff with this protocol, so much that he doesn't even lift anymore. I think I'm getting to that point too.

Some of us just weren't meant to be athletes, especially those of us who spent crucial years not keeping the body free of dysfunction.
http://www.pendlayforum.com/showthread.php?p=76291#post76291

This is so me. But right now i can't put all my goals aside to focus on corrective training. I should eventually. I promise to start at least though. I started with a 22" standing vertical and i've come a long way since then pushing it into the 30"s.  I want to believe I will push that up over 36" for no reason other than thinking my best is yet to come and i've only scratched the surface of my potential.

Injury status
Interestingly since ceasing backsquatting, paused squatting, aconsciously avoiding failure and front squatting out of the rack instead of into it, my R hip flexor is now magically fine. As in 99.99% good. Amazing how quickly that's happened.  My pec is also now fully healed, I benched heavy friday painfree and im fine today on sunday. So i'm very close to full recovery. Awesome!!

So i've taken all the feedback into consideration. Only using stimulants + heavy weights 1x a week. Only. The rest of the time i'm going to live on a diet of volume with 80-85% without significant CNS stress.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 10:07:40 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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chasing athleticism -- W1D1
« Reply #917 on: June 03, 2013, 07:46:29 am »
0
Training
FS 1x102.5, 1x110, 1x115, 5x105, 5x102.5, 5x100, 5x97.5
OHP 1x59.5, 1x61, 5x61, 2x65, 2x64.5

Stimulants: None

FS notes:
The first scheduled session w/o stimulants was challenging. In hindsight i shuda had something to eat before hand because i went some 2 hours since the last meal. I couldn't believe how heavy the warmups felt, even 90kg. Guess my body isn't used to lifting without caffeine. But I forged ahead anyway, my plan was to triple 115kg - that wasn't going to happen but the next stage was to do 5s with a weight around 105kg, which went ok. I mean it was hard, like RPE 10, but i managed all the same. If my goal was to avoid CNS stress on this workout, maybe doing RPE 10 wasn't the right choice, but i'm hoping that eventually i'll adapt and then it will be easier than it was today.

total volume: 21 reps

OHP notes:
The 5x61 set came out of nowhere. I'll take it. I couldn't triple 65kg though, but next time i prob will be able to. So i'm back on track for pressing. I need more volume for upper body but the presses were quite tasking so I could do backoffs sets. I may do some chinups later though. And maybe curls and what not.

Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

LBSS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #918 on: June 03, 2013, 11:31:38 am »
+2
YOU DON'T NEED CURLS, BRO. BEACHWORK IS FOR BROS. KIPPING PULL UPS AND THRUSTERS ARE ALL YOUR ARMS NEED TO GROW. CROSSFIT LYFE.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

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AlexV

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #919 on: June 04, 2013, 06:26:49 pm »
+1
I like the wave load.  I am really becoming a believer in staying within yourself.  IE not pushing it.  Let the frequency and volume take care of the overload.  That is more of a Russian philosophy.  It is kinda like this:  You could squat 100kilos for 5x2 (we'll pretend that is hard) m/w/f OR you could squat 100kilos m/t/w/th/f/sa for 6x1 (much easier workout).  In the first option you get 30 reps at 100 kilos and the second you get 36 reps at 100 kilos.  The second option will feel easier but over time have a greater training impact.  Same intensity, higher volume/week (20%), higher frequency (more motor learning/CNS)  which one over time will yield better results without you ever feeling smashed.  Problem is that people take the Russian methods (OH Gee 6x1) and go all out.  You need to fight the desire to max and trust the system. 

It actually falls well withing my other beliefs of doing every rep perfectly.  Take your time. 

One thing I ALWAYS do when programming is what Jim Wendler suggests in 531.  When planning your cycle figure out your sorta max and then use 90% of that weight.  So all your weight stays lower.  The first week or two build some momentum which carries you deeper into the cycle before gains slow.  The momentum relly helps drive gains in the future.  Again it is more of a long term approach but it helps a ton.  Especially for athletes who have practice to worry about.

As Charlie Francis would say "The rush to results often leads to stagnation and uncertainty."  I have followed this for a while BUT as I grow older it makes more and more sense.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2013, 06:34:35 pm by AlexV »
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LanceSTS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #920 on: June 04, 2013, 07:11:25 pm »
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I like the wave load.  I am really becoming a believer in staying within yourself.  IE not pushing it.  Let the frequency and volume take care of the overload.  That is more of a Russian philosophy.  It is kinda like this:  You could squat 100kilos for 5x2 (we'll pretend that is hard) m/w/f OR you could squat 100kilos m/t/w/th/f/sa for 6x1 (much easier workout).  In the first option you get 30 reps at 100 kilos and the second you get 36 reps at 100 kilos.  The second option will feel easier but over time have a greater training impact. 

and has a MASSIVE difference in rate of injuries, especially over time.  The statistics are very clear on the Russian (and even Chinese which is kind of a modified Russian system) systems low rate of injuries vs the bulgarian and other similar systems, the medal count is also higher for the Soviet system. Its the old fable of the tortise and the hare all over again.
Relax.

AlexV

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #921 on: June 04, 2013, 07:18:41 pm »
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I think it has to do with a misinterpretation of the Russian lit.  Americans see 6x1 and think 6x1@95%
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LanceSTS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #922 on: June 04, 2013, 07:23:32 pm »
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I think it has to do with a misinterpretation of the Russian lit.  Americans see 6x1 and think 6x1@95%

Yea I mean the actual Russian Weightlifting team, there was stats posted a while ago on Pendlays forum and the Russians had an insanely lower rate of injuries vs the bulgarian team, along with longer careers in sport.

Not to mention more medals overall than any other system.
Relax.

Raptor

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #923 on: June 04, 2013, 08:42:47 pm »
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Very interesting discussion... I remember when I was doing the chezkenny routine which called for squats + bench press + deadlifts + chinups every day and that's when I set my all time PR in the squat in terms of 5RM. Obviously and increase in movement efficiency but was it really JUST that?
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

entropy

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chasing athleticism -- W1D2
« Reply #924 on: June 05, 2013, 01:19:00 pm »
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Training
FS 3x90, 2x100, 1x110, 2x5x100
BP 5x83, 3x83, 6x90, 6x77.5
WCU 2x5x85
TKE 15, 20
AWHEEL 2x8 (from knees)

Stimulants: None.

FS notes:
Light workout, low volume. I wasn't sure whether to do 2 sets or 3. Figured i'd do 2 sets this week. And if it works, then stick with it. If I need more, then i'll add an extra set next week. Less is better. And i'll bump up the weight maybe 1kg a week. After 2 months i'll be using 110kg for 2x5 without stimulants which is my current 5rep PR with stimulants.

BP notes:
Wanted 6x83. Didn't happen though, was too heavy and I had no spotter so didn't court failure outside the rack. I think if I was on stims i would got the 6. I didn't think about how not using stimulants would affect my upper body workouts but i'll have to keep to adjust for that in future.

Assistance notes:
Restarted chinups. Will ease back into them, don't wanna strain my pec again. Also TKEs. I might do a few sets of the ab wheel as a gentle reintroduction to the exerrcise.

postworkout doms: abs (yes!).
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 04:56:29 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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chasing athleticism -- W1D3
« Reply #925 on: June 07, 2013, 10:06:03 am »
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Training
FS 4Fx115, 1x125 (PR), 5Fx111 , 4x107.5
BSS 5x20
OHP 4Fx62, 3Fx65, 3x64.5, 5Fx61.5
GM 5x20, 5x60, 2x8x80 (PR)
 
Stimulants: 200mg caffeine + 1/4 can of coke

FS notes:
It was eerie how light and easy (my own fat loss commercial) the first 3 reps of 115kg felt that I got distracted to the point where I lost focus on finishing the set!

Added 2kg to my heavy single PR from last wk. I am confident I can march up to 130kg or so while taking 2kg jumps yet.

I was one rep short on all the sets (except ofcourse the single which I got). I am ok with it though. I trained well this week but everythign else outside the gym was rather suboptimal. All hings considering i'll take it. I expect things to improve next week.

OHP notes:
Have to be careful with this exercise. I am starting to think it is to blame for my hip problem.. see post below.

Assitance notes:
Started doing Gooood mornings! Exciting stuff. Lets see where it leads.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 11:41:58 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #926 on: June 07, 2013, 10:27:44 am »
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placeholder for general thoughts

My legs have been rather sore lately too. And abs also.  This probably affected my heavy CNS intensive workout this week. As my abs get stronger and my legs adapt to volume, I expect a straightforward path to 135kg front squat, esp considering i'm still taking 2kg jumps on the singles.

The one thing which concerns me is my right leg being very weak compared to my left leg. I wish I could fix that somehow. But the only exercise which I know to work my legs is the backsquat and i'm still avoidng that atm. For me, the backsquat is the superior leg exercise, i'm convinced. On that thought I am going to try BSS. I remember my R leg being rather shaky on these, so perhaps if they become less shaky that will carry over to squatting too.

I am going to start my remedial mobility/flexibility work now. I have got a copy of that supple leopard book. Time I started working on addressing my structural problems. It will be hard and painful but I know it will be worth it when i've fixed myself up. If my squat becomes symmetrical, my right leg catches up to my strong leg then I have no doubt i'll be squatting more weight than ever. And if I can do while progressing my FS up to 140kg i'll be nice and ready for the next stage where I need another 20kg on the bar to double my bodyweight.

The main areas I want to address first is my flexibility at the bottom of a squat. I am not happy with it as it stands at the mo. It's too asymmetric. Also think my back is a bit fucked up which is causing issues with my right hip flexor. I noticed that after squatts my hips were ok. But as I warmed up for ohp, my hips started complaining. That suggests it's a back/spine issue.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 12:33:06 pm by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #927 on: June 07, 2013, 12:37:32 pm »
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Mobility Session #1

Started with the squat specific stretching ..

Experimenting with improving my bottom position on the squat. Using the california strength video as a guide (starts approx 3:48)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYMqN6vveB0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYMqN6vveB0</a>

I am doing that stretch as per video trying to get my spine vertical and upright.

Progress !! PR!!!!!!! - I can get my spine both deep, upright and flat How you ask? By adding a 3/4 heel (maybe 1/2" because i used rubber which compresses.). I think if I had a pair of oly shoes with a ~1" heel, my squat would be perfect. I am blown away by this discovery. Time to go shopping for shoes I guess.. lol.

Finished the mobility session. That was harder than my workout. lol. I'll keep working on it. It's taught me a lot of things already. The reason I SqMorn out of the bottom of certain squats is because of back rounding. If the back is straight you move up and down in the vertical plane. When back rounding occurs though, the movement is forwards, then up. I need to work hard on fixing this. I wonder what the reason is. Could be anything, ankle flexibility, calves, hamstrings, hips, etc. My spine is perfectly flat at parallel and just below. But to go ATG it causes that famous buttwink. I am not convinced even new shoes will remove that. I'll keep working on mobility and see where that takes me. It's possible that eventually i'll be able to go ATG with or without the new weightlifting shoes.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 02:36:45 pm by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

LBSS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #928 on: June 07, 2013, 03:06:52 pm »
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don't you already have oly shoes?
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

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entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #929 on: June 07, 2013, 03:21:00 pm »
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don't you already have oly shoes?

Nope. Kind of. I had my pair mutilated when I didn't know better. They're like flat shoes better suited for lowbar squatting not deep front or highbar ones, not ideal for my obviously.. :/
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat