Author Topic: chasing athleticism (Read 1463915 times)

entropy · « **Reply #735 on:** March 07, 2013, 06:11:44 am »

Shit that's a wall of text, sorry. For raptor's sake, i'll post a TLDR:
TLDR: For my muscle mass and strength, am I overachieving on the front squat or underachieving on the backsquat?

Raptor · « **Reply #736 on:** March 07, 2013, 09:14:27 am »

Quote from: entropy on March 07, 2013, 06:11:44 am

Shit that's a wall of text, sorry. For raptor's sake, i'll post a TLDR:
TLDR: For my muscle mass and strength, am I overachieving on the front squat or underachieving on the backsquat?

T0ddday · « **Reply #737 on:** March 07, 2013, 02:36:12 pm »

Quote from: entropy on March 07, 2013, 06:08:22 am

Added the video back to my earlier post, please have a look. I don't ATG on backsquat, not militant about depth on backsquat as long as it's below parallel i'm happy. I save my deep squatting for the front squat which comes naturally to me. I do use oly shoes, and I think i have the ankle mobility because I can front squat deep fine.

But having said that I might still have a problem with mobility all the same because my backsquat looks very assymetric, i favour my strong left side a lot. I just don't know what, or how to fix it.

Need a side view. Deep Front squat doesn't require as much ankle mobility, so that doesn't mean much. The fact that you hit depth by bowing your knees out rather than breaking forward at your knee suggests you lack a bit of mobility, but without a side view it's really hard to tell. Also, you squat just looks bad, just looks like you aren't very good at it. I bet if you squat a few times a week for a couple months your back squat will shoot right past your front squat.

Mikey · « **Reply #738 on:** March 08, 2013, 12:43:21 am »

Your back squat is 'lighter' than your front squat because you have been front squatting almost exclusively for the past several months. Than when you do back squat it looks like you usually do it after you front squat so your legs are already fatigued a little plus the movement feels weird coz you've just been spending your time doing front squats. I experienced the same thing over a year ago when I was doing front and back squats in the same session. It feels awkward to back squat after you front squat so weight that should feel light feels heavy.
If you spent as much time doing back squats as front squats than your back squat would be higher than your front squat. Also think about it this way. You've back squatted 140+kg before but the most you've front squatted is 120kg. So that's a 20kg difference right there. If you've back squatted that much before than you're capable of doing it again if you practice the movement.

entropy · « **Reply #739 on:** March 08, 2013, 04:17:44 am »

I've long done the same amount of FS:BS work - it's not like i've done FS twice as often. The days I squat (every session), I do both FS & BS! But I always do FS first and BS last like you said. Thing is, going from FS to BS, it should feel 'easier' because BS is an easier exercise (for the same weight). Right? But that's not my experience. BS is hard, harder even. Also, in recent times i've done 2-3 sets of front squats only before moving to backsquat. 2 sets is about my average. 2 sets of heavy front squats take away some, sure. But i'm not super exhausted/fatigued either. I could do a lot more front squatting before I get fatigued. Most days I'm not going into backsquats completely fatigued. Perhaps just enough to make it harder, i'll buy that.

entropy · « **Reply #740 on:** March 08, 2013, 09:15:10 am »

Training
FS 3x110 (PR), 5x106 (PR)
BS 2x6x104
BP 2x6x72, 2x6x67
DJ 3x5 (18-22" box)
DUNKZ ~50-60 dunks (most RVJ, about 10 SVJ)

FS notes:
The triple wasn't a grind, I reckon I had a rep in me! Wasn't sure what weight to pick for the 5 rep set, i want to keep a 5kg difference between the triple and 5, but i'd already done 105 last time so went for 106 this time. Next session i'll go for PRs 3x112 and 5x107. Bring it on!

BS notes:
First set was hard. I improved my form in the 2nd set, but i pressed record twice and it wasn't filmed. Damn. I have the vid for the first set though.

Dunk notes:
I did a shitload of dunks today! By the end I was dripping in sweat and out of breath. Crazy workout. I finally got my first self lob dunks, I can do them reliably now.

Raptor · « **Reply #741 on:** March 08, 2013, 01:52:48 pm »

You go up pretty good considering how slow you move... you're not using your arms at all on the jumps (ok, just very little).

To me it looks like you actually have good quad strength, it's more the posterior chain that you should work more on. When you plant you can really maintain the knee position... a thing I can't.

entropy · « **Reply #742 on:** March 09, 2013, 09:50:04 am »

Thanks. I think you might be onto something there. It would also go someway in explaining why my backsquat is lagging (because my posterior is weak link in the chain). I'm planning on pushing up my backsquat 20-25kg at some stage when I've reached my FS goals (3x115-120 & 5x110-115).

Raptor · « **Reply #743 on:** March 09, 2013, 10:10:43 am »

I'd do low bar squats if I'd also be doing front squats with them. Doing front squats and high bar squats at the same time is kinda redundant.

Basically you can go with FS + LBBS (not the forum member) and some posterior chain high rep assistance work (2x12) - think RDL and hip thrust DONE CORRECTLY (glute dominant, pay attention to the pelvis being in neutral, especially when doing hip thrusts).

Otherwise, since you've lost so much weight, I believe your calves aren't an issue right now and therefore your only thing left to improve MORE would be the hip extensors.

Why don't you do this test?

http://www.adarq.org/strength-power-reactivity-speed-discussion/the-training-schedule-i-did-for-nightfly-could-help-you-too/

entropy · « **Reply #744 on:** March 10, 2013, 09:40:11 am »

Training
FS 3x112 (PR), 5Fx107 (PR)
BS 5Fx106(LB), 6x105(HB)
OHP 2x5x56, 6x50
WCU 5xBW, 2x88.5, 3x98.5, 3x93.5, 5x88.5, 5x83.5

FS notes:
Got the 112 triple but the last rep was a grind. It's ok, because my last warmup bar speed was quite slow, so all things considered i did well to get a PR despite my state. On the 5th rep of the 107 PR attempt, I just couldnt grind out the last rep. I came so close to overcoming the sticking point but it was just too much for me today. I will def get it next time though. I just need a bit more rest. It's been one of those weeks.

BS notes: (HIGH BAR VS LOW BAR?)
I took Raptor's advice and did the first workset low bar. It was a wreck. I failed the last rep in an ugly manner. It could be that i'm not accustomed to lowbar but I found it very challenging. The 2nd set I went back to my usual highbar position. Got 6 reps and it was easier and more controlled. I'll put both videos up for you to judge for yourself.

My verdict? I am a much better high bar squatter than lowbar. Question is, should I stick with highbar, or switch to the lowbar despite the obvious problems :- A. Crazy amount of torque on the low back, difficult, dangerous lift. B. New lift, not used to it, have to take off a lot of weight to progress it from here.

Looking at the video i'm noticing that on the lowbar I went quite deep, I don't think you're supposed to go this deep on LBBS.

What do you guys think?

Raptor · « **Reply #745 on:** March 10, 2013, 11:18:45 am »

Quote from: Raptor on March 08, 2013, 01:52:48 pm

To me it looks like you actually have good quad strength, it's more the posterior chain that you should work more on. When you plant you can really maintain the knee position... a thing I can't.

Well^^^, time to reiterate that assumption. Do you do any RDLs or direct posterior chain work? (hip thrusts, glute ham raises, reverse hypers)?

When I squatted low bar for the first time EVER I used 50 kg to start (obviously, started with an empty bar first) and went up to as high as 80 kg.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRRNOn19nFQ" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRRNOn19nFQ</a>

Basically... start conservatively. I would've never used the weight you used (so heavy). Start low and work your way up. I'd stick with the low bar squat if I were you IN YOUR situation.

I'm actually doing high bar squats right now but that's only because I've neglected direct quad work for so long... (and also working on ATG flexibility at the same time).

By the way - it was terrible, my first low bar squat day. Terrible elbow pain, very unnatural movement (I get quad dominant when the weight gets heavy), very weird position to have the bar onto on the back, weird body awareness etc. So if you do indeed choose to do low bar squats be aware you're going to get better after a week or two at them.

Raptor · « **Reply #746 on:** March 10, 2013, 12:01:51 pm »

Cool, have fun.

entropy · « **Reply #747 on:** March 11, 2013, 09:48:36 am »

lol sorry brah. You know how much I hate your half deadlifts

Raptor · « **Reply #748 on:** March 11, 2013, 01:18:20 pm »

Well then have fun being quad dominant and having future knee issues. If you do the RDLs right they will help you. If you mess around with them having preconceived ideas then they will not, but that's your fault.

entropy · « **Reply #749 on:** March 11, 2013, 01:38:19 pm »

Look at the ROM, it's tiny on the RDL! I get that it makes hamstrings sore, but I can make them sore in many different ways. The easiest and fun way is doing a few max effort sprints. Btw RDL never made my glutes sore ever.. as a posterior ex it doesn't work (for me)

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Author Topic: chasing athleticism (Read 1463915 times)

entropy

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Raptor

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T0ddday

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