Author Topic: chasing athleticism  (Read 1463918 times)

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entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism -- Plan for backsquat form improvement
« Reply #270 on: September 02, 2012, 02:52:44 am »
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form is the very first thing you should be focusing on.. so you have the right idea here.

do not pay attention to the weight on the bar. just make sure there is enough load there to push you down and give you a challenged concentric. 

Understood. Learnt that the hard way but i'm doing it the right way now.
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #271 on: September 02, 2012, 02:55:07 am »
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Training
1km Fasted TM (AM)
5x30m warmups, 5x30 sprints (best time - 04:30 - PR - but I don't want to count it, see below) (PM)
5SVJ, 5 RVJs (shit couldn't jump.. may be all this cardio catching up to me now) (PM)
2 hours pickup ball (better than last week but still a little sluggish) (PM)

I didn't sprint on friday because of rain but I will sprint today instead before jumping and pickup basketball. It might be a good idea to group the 'athletic' stuff together in one day anyway, and makes fridays shorter and easier to recover from. Worth a try, as long as mondays workouts are still do-able, i much prefer it this way.

sprints felt real sluggish. I don't think i'll do them on sunday again. I perform better on fridays after squats, for some reason. I managed a 04:30 on my *last* sprint - but it's not reproducible cos a hot girl was jogging near me and my caveman instincts kicked in to go an extra gear lol, that wont happen since i normally sprint late at night when no one is at the oval.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MC_t8MfGHMQ" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MC_t8MfGHMQ</a>

advantage of running in the sun tho is you can record yourself. im looking at my form compared to bolt lol. trying to see how i can improve my form so it looks similar to his. i notice my upper body is very robotic. but I can't see bolt's arms moving any differently, although obviously he must be doing something subtly different cos we look a world apart in technique. the other thing i picked up is his ankle is very high on the recovery. mine is lower. so i'm gonna experiment next time with that.

Stuff to do Next Time I Sprint
high ankles on recovery leg
higher knees on striking leg
deliberately pump arms
try not be so upright, have to be leaning fwd more
« Last Edit: September 02, 2012, 09:55:36 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #272 on: September 03, 2012, 02:09:31 pm »
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In hindsight I didn't do myself any favours over the weekend. Have to remember my recovery is finite, esp when cutting. Delayed mondays workout. Will try it tomorrow instead. Have found my body to be too beaten up lately and I need to train smarter rather than harder. My knees, lower back, triceps, hamstrings all complain that i've not been kind to them.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2012, 02:38:44 pm by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism -- ideal squat?
« Reply #273 on: September 03, 2012, 02:39:42 pm »
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My work on the squat video analysis is going well though. I've found some interesting things already about my squat. It turns out my negative and positive have some notable differences and similarities. I've already got the side-by-side video of positive and reverse negative - and it's quite instructive to compare them. I find my backsquat syncs well in both videos in timing, but not in specific positions. That is, my chest is caved on one side but perfectly straight in the other. That's visually apparent. My next step (which is hard) is to display a grid over both videos - so I can more easily inspect the differences in positions by scale. The last part will be the hardest, measuring angles. I'm not even sure i'll tackle that one, might let the user do it by providing an angle measuring tool. Dunno.

LBSS - you asked about the ideal squat. Well my program knows what my ideal squat looks like by analysing my squat video. See below.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKJtuwR-jvY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKJtuwR-jvY</a>

This isn't my ACTUAL 112.5x1 PR video from friday. It's actually one that is constructed by the app. The next step would be to compare the positions (knees, barbell etc) in the actual video compared to the ideal one. The closer they are, the better the squat.
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism - w11d1
« Reply #274 on: September 04, 2012, 09:10:45 am »
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Training
BS 2x100
SQ 1x100, 1x105B, 1x90
BP 6x80.5 (PR), 6x76, 6x72.5

Squats sucked more than usual, i can't be bothered explaining. my next hopeful form improvement is Dan's sitting between the legs thing -
Quote

http://danjohn.net/2009/12/the-front-squat/

I think with my stupidly long legs, I need to space them out more (by taking a wider stance) - and then sitting btw my legs will bring me deeper and more upright. Yea we'll see lol.

Surprised how well my BP is progressing now. Normally whenever i've had to set a PR on BP it is a hard grindy effort which takes a lot of mental energy. But with the descending sets i'm finding the weight not heavy but light and I feel fresh and stronger. Lets see how far I can go, so far i'm sustaining 2kg/wk progress.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2012, 09:21:26 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #275 on: September 05, 2012, 04:50:54 am »
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I am considering drastic changes to my fat loss strategy. I remember back when I was at university, I ate pretty much what I wanted (a kilo block of cheese a week, tubs of icecream, litres of fullcream milk, eggs, bacon, loads of pasta and carbs etc) and I was lean and fit. I don't think diet was the main thing. Training was.

Back then I was playing competitive basketball and I think it was *that* which had the biggest influence on my bodycomp. When I wasn't playing matches I was playing pickup games fairly regularly. Even this year when I started playing basketball matches, I found myself getting leaner and fitter, esp as the season went on. There is something about playing basketball which turns on a fatloss switch in my body. I dunno if i'll start playing again but I want to re-create that training effect.

One reason not to start playing basketball again is it gets in the way of weights training. If i was eating more I could probably do everything - including basketball, conditioning intervals, weights and even swimming. But the whole caloric deficit is a recovery deficit is a bitch. Sigh.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 05:11:14 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

vag

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #276 on: September 05, 2012, 05:18:27 am »
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There is no magic recomp switch turned on by any sport.
Playing competitive basketball is 1,5 hours of HIT. Some tables indicate that caloric expenditure is about 650kcals per hour.
So ~1000kcals burned every time you play, while 1kg of fat is ~7000kcals, that's all there is to it!  :)
Just my 2 cents.
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #277 on: September 05, 2012, 05:22:49 am »
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There is also EPOC (post exercise burn). The studies say the benefits of HIIT peaks at about a month. But in that month it's possible you achieve significant changes to bodycomp. I think that's what basketball brings to the table

I also don't believe cal in vs cal out is the be all and end all of body composition. Different ways of training have different results on composition imho. I believe in cal in vs cal out for weight loss but only as a simple guideline. There is more to it than that though

The reason I think basketball works so well is because its a good mix of aerobic and HIIT .. it involves
b) gives the benefits of HIIT
c) gives benefits of aerobic training

and together this works well to give great fat loss. The calories burnt during exercise aren't the whole picture, far from it, and they certainly don't consitute the entire "calories out" picture. For that you have to look at EPOC too.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 05:59:02 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

vag

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #278 on: September 05, 2012, 05:58:13 am »
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Agreed, not every kcal burn is the same. Kcal in vs kcal out is definitely not the end of it.
But for someone with a relatively clean diet and a regular training schedule, like yourself, the "initial conditions" of the problem are set, the degrees of freedom are much less. In that case, imho kcal in vs kcal out covers 80% of the body composition plan if not more.
About basketball and fat loss, i do agree there is a thing too, a feeling that there is a switch as you described. I just think it is mental. You burn a ton of kcals without even trying for it, you are out there practicing your beloved sport. And then one day you look at the mirror and say damn, im lean. To achieve the same you would have to walk endless boring hours on the treadmill, while spending those hours deliberately for the specific fat loss purpose. That wears you out and you have it on your mind too, you are on a fat loss plan, this is what is supposed to happen, there are expectations, targets etc. Basketball is about fun though, so the fat loss effect is collateral, that's why it's logged in our minds as a surprise, a little bit of magic... This whole paragraph is a totally personal point of view on it though!
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #279 on: September 05, 2012, 06:15:20 am »
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Those are good points for why basketball works psychologically. I just don't think I enjoy basketball as much as I used to! I was pretty miserable playing in my team so it wasn't fun by any means, was full of disappointment and stuff. But one thing which you are more likely to do in a competitive game is go balls out, because someone is trying to defeat you. So you work harder, and push to a higher intensity. You aren't going to do that on a treadmill I agree. I just think the combination of HIIT and aerobic training in a basketball game has worked very well for me in the past to get me lean. And it worked regardless of my diet, just like magic. I'm not eating much these days but i'm still fat. I've eaten a lot more food and been leaner becos of training. Yes you can say that's because training manipulated the cal out part but it's more than the number of calories surely, esp when those calories aren't much compared to my then daily intake (woulda been easily 4k+)
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

D4

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #280 on: September 05, 2012, 06:19:56 am »
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I competely agree with Vag.  It's all mental.

There isn't any kind of secret to basketball.  Cmon, listen to yourself.  Sounds like possibly your trying to give yourself a reason to start doing something you love more, even though it gets in your way of your strength training.  

In the end, the vast majority of your weight loss goals will come from calories in vs calories out, while your macronutrient ratios play a big part if you're going for fat loss/muscle maintenence, instead of just getting lighter.

Back in college, you were younger and had a faster metabolism probably.  I'm only 23 and I get fatter now if I eat whatever I want, but when I was 18/19, I ate even more than I do now and I didn't gain a single pound.  It's certainly not cause I was playing more basketball, cause my activity level is about the same.

I'm not saying don't play basketball.  I'm just saying in my opinion, you're getting kind of ridiculous saying that basketball is some sort of magic fat loss activity.  Burning 100 calories from basketball is the same as burning 100 calories from jacking off.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 06:22:28 am by D4 »
Goal is to dunk.

Vertical needed to dunk: 40"

Current vertical : 38.5"

Raptor

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #281 on: September 05, 2012, 07:08:50 am »
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I was 67 kg up until 21 years old (when I was actually 64 kg) and now I'm at 83-84. I used to eat much worse back then.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism - w11d2
« Reply #282 on: September 05, 2012, 10:17:10 am »
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Training
BS 2x110, 3x108.5, 5x105, 4x102.5, 4x100
OHP 4x55, 2x5x54.5, 4x54.5
PP 2x67.5 (PR), 4x65
CURLZ 3x8x43.5 (PR)
Chins ~ 21 reps (dead hangs)
ab rollouts 3x10

Next backsquat aim for 6x108.5. Form was ok but i was piss weak so couldn't get thru the reps as I would have liked. They were are all pretty much RM sets today.

OHP - im ok with these, i did them with a pause. Slowly going to build up to 3x5x60 with a pause, and then i'll switch to descending sets like my other lifts.

PP for some reason I thought i'd be able to add 2.5-5kg to this lift easily but it's not that easy at all. I'm going to reset a little and then take smaller jumps.

Rollouts, i did the first two sets by propping my toes under a sofa, which allowed me to roll out to a rock bottom full extended position. Then i tried it without the sofa and i lost most of my ROM. LOL. i'm still doign these from the knees. hopefully I can transition to from toes soon though, although I couldn't even do one rep that way when I tried. In the past when I used the ab wheel frequently i was doing full rollouts from standing position and I weighed over 100kg back then too. So where has all that strength gone?? may be my form was shit though, i never taped them.

Also I have a theory why my bench has suddenly started moving up. Perhaps from adding arm work (curls) and ohp. By adding these two things, ive increased upper body strength. my shoulders were always the strongest part of my upper body (I could get ~96kg close grip bp off my chest easily and snappily only to get stuck halfway becos of weak triceps). And by adding back the overhead work, shoulders have gotten stronger, which helps with the bench. Maybe the wide grip bench has helped as well out of the bottom of the bench press. Either way, i'll take it. I wont change anything, keep PP, BP, etc the same and ets see how far I can ride it out.

« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 10:53:06 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism -- fat loss changes
« Reply #283 on: September 05, 2012, 11:12:54 am »
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See the homeboy above, that V - I had that visible earlier this year when I was playing basketball despite weighing about 4-5kg more. That means i've lost 4kg of bodyweight and since i'm stronger and more muscular now than then, it has been 4-5kg of bodyfat.

How do you guys explain that? Cal in vs Cal out sermons can't explain it to me. I'm willing to accept I was burning more calories then than now. But i also know i was eating more then than now. So how does that affect balance? Now think about this for a second. I've maintained a caloric deficit to lose 4-5kg of bodyfat, so im definitely in a deficit, but yet that V above, yea I dont have it right now!!

I WONT cut more calories from my diet. I'm practically eating 2 square meals, 2000-2700 calories a day. I wont drop below 2000 and if you tell me to cut more than that. I REFUSE TO CUT ANY MORE CALORIES. My metabolism will get fucked up if I have a bigger deficit from diet than I already have and that's no way to live.

But I dont need to cut any mroe calories because there are other ways to burn bodyfat than thru diet. Aerobic steady state and HIIT will do that very well. I know that from experience.

I think I have it figured out tho. It's the mix of aerobic and hiit that I need to add. And sensibly, not 10+km of cardio a week like I did last week. No it has to be a reasonable amount. And it has to be both aerobic and hiit. I cant' and wont go back to playing basketball (cos then i cant train properly), so i'll have to be really smart about this.

tentative plan
daily 500m-600m fasted TM (~5-10mins, weekly progression: add 0.1km/hr and 50m)
1x a week HIIT (tabata mountain bike),  steady state cardio (30-60 mins riding mountain bike)
3x a week - ~3mins/session - TM warmups  - before weights, stick to about 3 minutes, not too high intensity, just get warm and blood flowing.
1x week pickup basketball (max of 3 games, and no more than 2 games back to back).


Playing pickup, I wont/cant play 2-3 hours straight like i did sunday because then training gets fucked up.

But basically i'm going to keep a bit of daily aerobic work, nice and gentle, pure fat loss, little impact on lifting. And slowly ramp it up over time. Then ride a bike trying to simulate my magic fat loss from basketball (mix of HIIT and aerobic) by doing tabata sprints and then just riding casually for 30-60mins.

On off days, i might go for a long walk but not a treadmill and maybe shoot hoops. dunno maybe.

I don't want to do much running/jogging cos it fucks up my knees/ankles and tires out my calves/hamstrings/quads and makes for shitty squat sessions.  So i'm going to try riding a bike instead. Hopefully that will give the conditioning without the side-effects i just mentioned. It also gives me a chance to go outdoors since i have a nice bike trail 5 minutes near my place.

 I want a nice balance of aerobic (2x a week) and HIIT (1x a week). Just what I had when I played basketball earlier in the year and saw good spot reduction of belly fat.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 04:15:46 pm by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism -- new program
« Reply #284 on: September 05, 2012, 03:24:15 pm »
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Conditioning will be on a mountain bike. I'm thinking tabata sprints 3 mins and 30-60mins w/o sprinting. For variety or in bad weather, once a month i'll play basketball with my old team.

Upper body assistance will be an exercise from chinups, banded chinups, curls, widegrip bench press, push presses, cable curls, hang cleans or rows.

I'm doing descending sets for backsquats and bench press btw.

When I feel like it, I can take Tue or Sat completely off.

Time to find those abs, great form, become stronger and powerful,  jump higher and run fast.

:headbang:
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 04:19:00 pm by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat