Author Topic: chasing athleticism (Read 1467258 times)

maxent · « **Reply #4515 on:** December 26, 2018, 04:32:59 am »

It's a bit disingenuous to claim a 137.5kg triple is a PR just cos i did the first rep paused lol. But it's not really possible to compare past PRs anyway. cos the past ones i did at my old gym, the older ones, were done on a (really great, solid, firm) platform but latter ones were done on gym rubber flooring. Whereas at my new gym all my lifts are done on a hard platform. That's one variable. Another is the older ones were done sans knee sleeves (or belt) and subsequent ones were done with knee sleeves. And some PRs were with a belt, on the platform and others were with a belt and no platform. Other variables are i did some of them at a bw of 89-92kg .. and i weigh 10kg less now. Another variable is im doing daily training whereas back then i was prob only doing 1 or two hard squat workouts a week etc. Yet another variable is i did zero cardio probably for the majority of my past training and now im doing lots of running, esp before lifting. So the line is blurry if you're trying to fairly compare old PRs and current lifts. Nevertheless here is a rough list of notable PRs that i'd like to surpass:

BS 10 sets of 5x137.5kg @ 87.8kg
BS 6 sets of 5x140kg @ 89.3kg
BS 160kg single @ 89.1kg (no sleeves, no belt, platform)
BS 170kg single @ 89.3kg (sleeves, belt, platform)
BS 6x137.5kg @ 91.3kg (sleeves, no belt,, no platform)
BS 6x147.5kg @ 91.6kg (belt, sleeves, no platform)
BS 8x142.5kg @ 91.3kg (belt, sleeves, platform)
BS 7 doubles at 150kg @ 89.2kg (no belt, no sleeves)
BS 6 triples of 150kg @ 90.2kg (belt, platform)
BS 10x135kg @ 91kg (belt, sleeves, no platform)
BS 3x160kg @ 92.4kg (belt, sleeves, no platform)

The closest one im at currently is prob the beltless 6x137.5kg .. which is kind of a meh PR anyway lol. But i'd like to get it soonish.

maxent · « **Reply #4516 on:** December 26, 2018, 08:59:02 pm »

Bodyweight(AM): 82.1kg (27 dec)
Diet compliance: 3/3 days
Daily Squat: 40/40 days
Daily Run: 40/40 days
Basketball skill work:

Morning:

TM Hill Run - 3°, 6km, 34:04,  05:41 pace

Noon:

BS 3x140(paused 1st; PR), 6x140B
Back Xtn 20x(40kg, bands)

Evening:

Run 7km, 42:14, 06:01 pace (PR; distance)

Notes:

maxent · « **Reply #4517 on:** December 27, 2018, 08:39:34 pm »

Bodyweight(AM): 82.9kg (28 dec)
Diet compliance: 4/4 days
Daily Squat: 41/41 days
Daily Run: 41/41 days
Basketball skill work:

Morning:

TM 5k time trial - 26:06, 05:13 pace(PR)

Noon:

BS 3x120, 2x140, 1x140, Belt BS 1x142.5, 1x145, 1x150, 2x142.5, 2x142.5
Back Xtn 12x(60kg, band)

Evening:

Run 1.53km, 9:20, 6:06/km

Notes:

Lol. Just when i think i've made some progress and got an e1rm of 2xbw my bw goes up like a kilo overnight. Alright bro.
I am not sure if i want to treat tmr park run as a race. Ended up doing the morning run as a time trial even tho i meant to do a taper and go easy today but i started doing a hill at 4deg for the first km, 3 deg for the 2nd km and then 1 for the next one. Did the last 2km with a zero incline just to see but i cranked the speed up a little to simulate a race. It wasn't an easy run as a result but it's okay. I'll prob skip the evening one now and just race tmr.

adarqui · « **Reply #4518 on:** December 28, 2018, 12:57:26 am »

nice. don't worry about it much. just have fun, you'll like it.

maxent · « **Reply #4519 on:** December 28, 2018, 09:25:08 am »

Quote from: adarqui on December 28, 2018, 12:57:26 am

nice. don't worry about it much. just have fun, you'll like it.

lol. i dont know. i think if i set off to get a PR i'll struggle to figure out how to pace it properly cos if i go too hard i'll not be able to maintain my pace but yet if i go out too slow i won't be able to make up the time if i say do 5:30-6:00 for the first km. Pretty sure if i set out at 5:00 pace i'll finish up doing the last couple of km at 6:30.

maxent · « **Reply #4520 on:** December 28, 2018, 09:25:47 pm »

Bodyweight(AM): 82.5kg (29 dec)
Diet compliance: 5/5 days
Daily Squat: 42/42 days
Daily Run: 42/42 days
Basketball skill work:

Morning:

  TM Long Run - 9.38km, 62:30, 06:40 pace (PR; distance, time)

Noon:

  BS 3x120, 2x140, 2x140, 2x140, Belt BS 2x142.5, 2x142.5, 2x142.5
  OHP 6x40, 6x50, 3Fx60, 5x57.5, 6x55 
  Chinup 5x10kg, 6x8kg 
  Back Xtn 6x100kg(no band)

Evening:

  Track Run - 6km, 37:26, 6:13 pace

Notes:

I prob ended up eating less carbs than i should have yesterday. had really bad sleep and throughout the night my left knee was hurting when i got up to walk to the bathroom like 3-4 times. that's carb related cos if i dont get enough my sleep quality deteriorates since my body is used to a baseline amount of carbs for energy thru sleep.
So decided not to go to the park run cos i didn't feel my knee was right for running on the road today.
When i straighten my leg in a seated position i feel pain at the bottom of my knee joint. Google seems to think it's jumpers knee or something?
Did some foam rolling nonsense etc but once i started warming up for my run it felt okay. weird, so yea just tightness?

maxent · « **Reply #4521 on:** December 28, 2018, 11:25:49 pm »

Okay okay andrew you won me over. I'm gna focus on getting my long run to 15km/90min, I wasn't a believer at first but i've come around to the idea that you build an aerobic base first then focus on speed / 5km time PR etc. Just gna work on that now. Did 62:30 min today, at 9km/hr, will add 2:30min each time and increase the speed every other time by 0.1km/hr. Eventually wanna be doing 90 min run at 10km/hr for a total of 15km. After that i'll switch up focus for doing 400m repeats on the track and just getting fast af and getting that sub 20 PR.

If i think about it, the most glaring weakness in my preparation for basketball was a lack of aerobic fitness. The years of lifting weghts prob did good things for my anaerobic but without an ability to express it gametime i was never able to demonstrate my athletic gains. I might have a 36" vertical but my subpar aerobic fitness meant i cud never get a game time dunk etc.

adarqui · « **Reply #4522 on:** December 29, 2018, 12:06:03 am »

good move not doing the park run if your knee was bugging.

ive had bottom knee hurt from running a few times .. but also had it during jumping.

when i get that, it's usually i'm doing way too much work. same for my lateral knee tendinitis-ish feeling which comes occasionally.

Quote from: maxent on December 28, 2018, 11:25:49 pm

Okay okay andrew you won me over.

cool hah. i never tried to convince you of high frequency long runs tho

Quote

I'm gna focus on getting my long run to 15km/90min, I wasn't a believer at first but i've come around to the idea that you build an aerobic base first then focus on speed / 5km time PR etc. Just gna work on that now. Did 62:30 min today, at 9km/hr, will add 2:30min each time and increase the speed every other time by 0.1km/hr. Eventually wanna be doing 90 min run at 10km/hr for a total of 15km. After that i'll switch up focus for doing 400m repeats on the track and just getting fast af and getting that sub 20 PR.

how often is this long run? usually they are once a week, with shorter runs throughout the week (speed work, tempo, medium-long, recovery).

i would definitely not try to add distance/pace so frequent, if i'm reading it correctly. have to be careful.

be careful trying to add intensity so often. my advice is still, learn to go by feel. some days you can run longer, some days you can't. if you keep it relative, you'll probably stay fresher.

nice @ ~62min run today!

Quote

If i think about it, the most glaring weakness in my preparation for basketball was a lack of aerobic fitness. The years of lifting weghts prob did good things for my anaerobic but without an ability to express it gametime i was never able to demonstrate my athletic gains. I might have a 36" vertical but my subpar aerobic fitness meant i cud never get a game time dunk etc.

yea maybe. aerobic fitness is underrated. in fact people hate on it similar to calf raises.

maxent · « **Reply #4523 on:** December 29, 2018, 05:02:24 am »

Well if you look at my log ive been doing 10+km running a day for a while now. it's only been split over 2 session (morning and evening) - but nevertheless that's the volume ive been working with. 15km in one session would be crazy if i just decided to do it off the bat but ive been building up to it. Having said that, you're right i need to make sure i don't get carried away and get hurt. But i don't also wanna spend over a month getting up to 15km, need to do it soonish and then i can change up focus cos i still haven't really touched a basketball since last summer (that's what 9 months ago?) so im not gna become a ful time runner and take it slow and steady either. Need a plan. My last long IRL run was 7km at 6:01 pace and i prob cud maintain that for a another km or two but to double my distance is a bit of an ask. Might have a better chance to do it on the TM tho cos it takes pacing out of it. When i did that 7km run i went close to 7min pace for the first (3.5km) lap and then as it got dark and i was hearing kangaroos scurriying around in the dark i went sub 6 on the return lap which was not great from an injury prevention perspective (form sucks when i go faster for longer runs). But it's pretty crazy cos i i dont even look at my watch while doing the run and at the end my pace was IDENTICAL to the 6.5km run i did before the 7km (a day earlier).

I have 3 disparate and competing goals: (5km sub 20, 170kg bs @ 85kg bw, 40" vertical) and the one i havent mentioned explicitly but is the whole underlying point of all of this - to become the rec league lebron james. Still a fat skinny dude so im not gna get any of those until i get in shape i must confess. not many out of shape guys get any of these goals at my height weight - im undermuscled, overfat, over-tall for my bw. On the court im usually the least fit guy so my fitness has always been a problem. My intuition tells me to knock of one or two of these goals then put them on maintenance and focus on the remaining one (or vice versa - knock out one, then maintain and focus on the other two).

Interesting to see this from my Garmin Connect app:

maybe this isn't so interesting after all, we're all relatively better than the average (sedentary?) person.. that's not who you shud compare with. still, wonder what everyone else here thinks about that ^

maxent · « **Reply #4524 on:** December 29, 2018, 08:05:07 am »

New found respect for acole/todday/mutombo. Ran 6km on the track tonight and it was brutal. Much harder than road running i found for the following reasons:

big empty field means you get get hit by the wind pretty hard .. when running with it, it almost doesn't feel like it's there but when you're running against it, it's v hard. doesn't help that my city is considered one of the windiest in the world
when not running straight against the wind, the curved bits are challenging, i felt it in my erectors pretty good .. not sure if that's just cos im new to running around the track or if it's normal? btw halfway (3km) i turned around and ran the opppostie direction to see if it would feel better/easier, not sure if it made any difference tbh
i think the road surface is faster to run on .. grass prob slows you down, didn't think it would be this significant tho
if i ran during teh day the sun and the wind wud be even harder. i prefer my trail run a lot more, get some wind cover and shade .. it's more pleasant overall
i ran a 6:13/km pace tonight compared to 6:01/km yesterday on my usual trail one. so if i was gna go for a 5km PR, it prob wont be on the track unfortunately, just too slow.

big respect to ppl who actually put up with all these factors and run better/faster on the track .. im in awe of your dedication.

adarqui · « **Reply #4525 on:** December 29, 2018, 11:58:22 am »

rec league lebron james lmfao.

nice. get it.

Quote from: maxent on December 29, 2018, 05:02:24 am

Well if you look at my log ive been doing 10+km running a day for a while now. it's only been split over 2 session (morning and evening) - but nevertheless that's the volume ive been working with. 15km in one session would be crazy if i just decided to do it off the bat but ive been building up to it. Having said that, you're right i need to make sure i don't get carried away and get hurt. But i don't also wanna spend over a month getting up to 15km, need to do it soonish and then i can change up focus cos i still haven't really touched a basketball since last summer (that's what 9 months ago?) so im not gna become a ful time runner and take it slow and steady either. Need a plan. My last long IRL run was 7km at 6:01 pace and i prob cud maintain that for a another km or two but to double my distance is a bit of an ask. Might have a better chance to do it on the TM tho cos it takes pacing out of it. When i did that 7km run i went close to 7min pace for the first (3.5km) lap and then as it got dark and i was hearing kangaroos scurriying around in the dark i went sub 6 on the return lap which was not great from an injury prevention perspective (form sucks when i go faster for longer runs). But it's pretty crazy cos i i dont even look at my watch while doing the run and at the end my pace was IDENTICAL to the 6.5km run i did before the 7km (a day earlier).

I have 3 disparate and competing goals: (5km sub 20, 170kg bs @ 85kg bw, 40" vertical) and the one i havent mentioned explicitly but is the whole underlying point of all of this - to become the rec league lebron james. Still a fat skinny dude so im not gna get any of those until i get in shape i must confess. not many out of shape guys get any of these goals at my height weight - im undermuscled, overfat, over-tall for my bw. On the court im usually the least fit guy so my fitness has always been a problem. My intuition tells me to knock of one or two of these goals then put them on maintenance and focus on the remaining one (or vice versa - knock out one, then maintain and focus on the other two).

Interesting to see this from my Garmin Connect app:

maybe this isn't so interesting after all, we're all relatively better than the average (sedentary?) person.. that's not who you shud compare with. still, wonder what everyone else here thinks about that ^

even if the garmin vo2max number is inaccurate, you'll notice that the vo2max improvements seem accurate. when that number goes up, your fitness is usually up as well.

as for which of the 3 goals to knock off first, i'd say 5k & squat - you can do both. those will both help the rec league lebron james goal. the 40" vert goal will "interfere" with everything, since it will need all the attention. if you can get your RVJ up to 35" more frequently, while still improving your fitness/strength, it'll be better than going for the 40". get there first, then re-evaluate when to attack 40" etc.

Quote from: maxent on December 29, 2018, 08:05:07 am

New found respect for acole/todday/mutombo. Ran 6km on the track tonight and it was brutal. Much harder than road running i found for the following reasons:
big empty field means you get get hit by the wind pretty hard .. when running with it, it almost doesn't feel like it's there but when you're running against it, it's v hard. doesn't help that my city is considered one of the windiest in the world
when not running straight against the wind, the curved bits are challenging, i felt it in my erectors pretty good .. not sure if that's just cos im new to running around the track or if it's normal? btw halfway (3km) i turned around and ran the opppostie direction to see if it would feel better/easier, not sure if it made any difference tbh
i think the road surface is faster to run on .. grass prob slows you down, didn't think it would be this significant tho
if i ran during teh day the sun and the wind wud be even harder. i prefer my trail run a lot more, get some wind cover and shade .. it's more pleasant overall
i ran a 6:13/km pace tonight compared to 6:01/km yesterday on my usual trail one. so if i was gna go for a 5km PR, it prob wont be on the track unfortunately, just too slow.

big respect to ppl who actually put up with all these factors and run better/faster on the track .. im in awe of your dedication.

when you run outside you always have to adjust for the elements.

going into headwinds is ~50% harder/slower than using the tailwind.

it'd probably be less windy in the early morning.

maxent · « **Reply #4526 on:** December 29, 2018, 09:20:18 pm »

Maybe i shud just embrace it, do my training harder and then when it comes time to PR i'll move to more forgiving conditions and get some notable results!

Quote

as for which of the 3 goals to knock off first, i'd say 5k & squat - you can do both. those will both help the rec league lebron james goal. the 40" vert goal will "interfere" with everything, since it will need all the attention. if you can get your RVJ up to 35" more frequently, while still improving your fitness/strength, it'll be better than going for the 40". get there first, then re-evaluate when to attack 40" etc.

Def think the 40" is the most out there of these goals. To jump well, from what i've read (working thru charlie francis book atm) you need to have periods of rest/recovery and then it just 'happens' .. but with my training load it's prob going to be a miracle to do it just as part of training along the way. You're right 35" while fit/strong is actually a better goal for me. I just wrote 40" cos it's just one of those holy grail things you think would be nice to have but my emotional attachment isn't all there, and actually just needing 22" to dunk, i don't need 40" - a good reserve is important so i can be fatigued etc and still pull of a game time dunk - of course. It's true 35" will prob be better for rec league lebron james if it means i don't need to specialise only on vertical at the detriment of strength and fitness.

Ok i'm talking too much and not doing enough, time to just put in the work.

Looking into the vo2 max of basketball players, it ranges from 50-60. I'm off the charts in a bad way. I need to be on the other side though, and by that i mean over 60 to have some sort of reserve to make up for my natural limitations. If my garmin is reporting 49 then i need it to show 61 sometime this summer. it might coincide when i get all my goal ducks in a row.

maxent · « **Reply #4527 on:** December 29, 2018, 09:24:34 pm »

Bodyweight(AM): 82.0kg (30 dec)
Diet compliance: 6/6 days
Daily Squat: 43/43 days
Daily Run: 43/43 days
Basketball skill work:

Morning:

  Long TM Run  - 65:00, 10km, 6:30/km (PR; dist, time)

Noon:

  BS 3x120, 2x140, 2x142.5, 2x140, Belt BS 2x145, 2x142.5, 2x142.5
  Back Xtn 6x100kg(bands; PR)

Evening:

  Evening Running - 1.5km total (see notes)

Notes:

Ate more carbs last night and suprisingly scale goes down to 82.0kg. I'll take it.
Really wanna start playing pickup ball on sundays again but i can't displace running or squatting so no room for it just yet :/
On the morning run I pushed the last km at sub 6 pace to get 10km even tho it was going to be just short today at 9.1km/hr
Evening run was not another slow af 5-6km around the track - decided to mix it up and ran a fastish 1km at around 5min/km then did 100m strides. I ran a 15sec stride which i found unbelievable. I'm not supposed to be this fast? Two things happened which blew me away today - on the 2nd stride i realised the glute pain i'd been having when running 'fast' was actually being caused by my strides being waaaaaaay too long - and funnily enough i'd read some theorising about cadence on reddit today about how to improve cadence if it's low (mine is around 145). so i put 1+1 together and decided to pump my arms ... faster? like a lot faster .. turns out the whole time i was over-striding AND my arms were barely moving at all. Once i fixed that, i was flying, checked my watch and my jaw dropped. The second most notable thing is how 'short' 100m feels now, it used to be a grind to finish it at the pace i started but i was pretty much speeding up i felt throughout. My endurance at this short distance and speed is very much improved from the long slow running. How does that even make any sense? Strides are so much fun - for the first time in a while i left the park feeling better than when i got there. This might be my new evening format!

adarqui · « **Reply #4528 on:** December 30, 2018, 04:08:50 pm »

Quote from: maxent on December 29, 2018, 09:20:18 pm

Maybe i shud just embrace it, do my training harder and then when it comes time to PR i'll move to more forgiving conditions and get some notable results!

Quote
as for which of the 3 goals to knock off first, i'd say 5k & squat - you can do both. those will both help the rec league lebron james goal. the 40" vert goal will "interfere" with everything, since it will need all the attention. if you can get your RVJ up to 35" more frequently, while still improving your fitness/strength, it'll be better than going for the 40". get there first, then re-evaluate when to attack 40" etc.

Def think the 40" is the most out there of these goals. To jump well, from what i've read (working thru charlie francis book atm) you need to have periods of rest/recovery and then it just 'happens' .. but with my training load it's prob going to be a miracle to do it just as part of training along the way. You're right 35" while fit/strong is actually a better goal for me. I just wrote 40" cos it's just one of those holy grail things you think would be nice to have but my emotional attachment isn't all there, and actually just needing 22" to dunk, i don't need 40" - a good reserve is important so i can be fatigued etc and still pull of a game time dunk - of course. It's true 35" will prob be better for rec league lebron james if it means i don't need to specialise only on vertical at the detriment of strength and fitness.

Ok i'm talking too much and not doing enough, time to just put in the work.

Looking into the vo2 max of basketball players, it ranges from 50-60. I'm off the charts in a bad way. I need to be on the other side though, and by that i mean over 60 to have some sort of reserve to make up for my natural limitations. If my garmin is reporting 49 then i need it to show 61 sometime this summer. it might coincide when i get all my goal ducks in a row.

you can definitely bump it way up by then. consistent mileage will do it.

the highest i got mine (on my garmin), was 69 - RHR was also low 30's around then, bodyweight ~138-140 lb. Was putting in ~100 miles a week around that time. After that, transitioned into peak speed and PR'd 400m, 800m, 1km, mile, and 2 mile.. all vo2max related. Generally, the watch wasn't lying. My vo2max went from ~55 to 69 in about 10 months.

Quote from: maxent on December 29, 2018, 09:24:34 pm

Bodyweight(AM): 82.0kg (30 dec)
Diet compliance: 6/6 days
Daily Squat: 43/43 days
Daily Run: 43/43 days
Basketball skill work: 
Morning:
  Long TM Run  - 65:00, 10km, 6:30/km (PR; dist, time)
Noon:
  BS 3x120, 2x140, 2x142.5, 2x140, Belt BS 2x145, 2x142.5, 2x142.5
  Back Xtn 6x100kg(bands; PR) 
Evening:
  Evening Running - 1.5km total (see notes) 
Notes:
Ate more carbs last night and suprisingly scale goes down to 82.0kg. I'll take it.
Really wanna start playing pickup ball on sundays again but i can't displace running or squatting so no room for it just yet :/
On the morning run I pushed the last km at sub 6 pace to get 10km even tho it was going to be just short today at 9.1km/hr
Evening run was not another slow af 5-6km around the track - decided to mix it up and ran a fastish 1km at around 5min/km then did 100m strides. I ran a 15sec stride which i found unbelievable. I'm not supposed to be this fast? Two things happened which blew me away today - on the 2nd stride i realised the glute pain i'd been having when running 'fast' was actually being caused by my strides being waaaaaaay too long - and funnily enough i'd read some theorising about cadence on reddit today about how to improve cadence if it's low (mine is around 145). so i put 1+1 together and decided to pump my arms ... faster? like a lot faster .. turns out the whole time i was over-striding AND my arms were barely moving at all. Once i fixed that, i was flying, checked my watch and my jaw dropped. The second most notable thing is how 'short' 100m feels now, it used to be a grind to finish it at the pace i started but i was pretty much speeding up i felt throughout. My endurance at this short distance and speed is very much improved from the long slow running. How does that even make any sense? Strides are so much fun - for the first time in a while i left the park feeling better than when i got there. This might be my new evening format!

ahhhh nice!

yea 100m shouldn't feel long.. i mean at max effort, yes, but not at stride effort etc (which is more basketball specific - never hitting an ME sprint like that on a basketball court lol).

arms are extremely important for speed. over-striding is always the devil.

maxent · « **Reply #4529 on:** January 02, 2019, 05:39:46 am »

Quote from: adarqui on December 30, 2018, 04:08:50 pm

you can definitely bump it way up by then. consistent mileage will do it.

the highest i got mine (on my garmin), was 69 - RHR was also low 30's around then, bodyweight ~138-140 lb. Was putting in ~100 miles a week around that time. After that, transitioned into peak speed and PR'd 400m, 800m, 1km, mile, and 2 mile.. all vo2max related. Generally, the watch wasn't lying. My vo2max went from ~55 to 69 in about 10 months.

Those are really nice improvements. Good stuff. I too believe the watch. For the reason that ive read someone doing a proper lab study and comparing it with the garmin and they were very close. And also for training sake it's enough just like you said, to see relative improvement regardless of the error. Wonder how close i can get to 61 by end of summer (around 55 days). My comp is in 100 days so i have time but i dont want to be working on fitness (or strength or athleticism) after summer, just ball.

Quote

yea 100m shouldn't feel long.. i mean at max effort, yes, but not at stride effort etc (which is more basketball specific - never hitting an ME sprint like that on a basketball court lol).

I think even running tempos i struggled the last 20-30m in teh pst. But my memory might be faulty. So im not saying i was doing ME before and im not doing ME now. Well who knows, im self reporting which is always going to be suspect - but also it might be the wind. I will find out as we go thru summer whether or not im actually fitter at 100m (or shorter or longer distances) which is exciting for me cos ive done zero work at shorter distances and to see the CARRY over from the longer runs, that's really EXCITING i must admit.

Quote

arms are extremely important for speed. over-striding is always the devil.

my glute pain is pretty much fixed now that ive focused on form (cadence seems to put everything else in order automatically). I think when my R leg gets lazy (from fatigue) i start messing up stride (longer and longer) and that smashes my glute. I did find that when i came off those runs and did hip flexor stretches it made it feel better too, so between form changes and fitness, im pretty confident i can start doing faster runs. See my next log ..

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Author Topic: chasing athleticism (Read 1467258 times)

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