Author Topic: chasing athleticism  (Read 1464152 times)

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maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #3135 on: August 16, 2016, 10:27:42 pm »
+1
BW: 78.4kg

holding a stable bodyweight despite my efforts...

suprisingly not sore today. my body has responded and adjusted to volume .. it can handle a lot more than this and im glad my work capacity has improved a lot this week. ankle feels better. hoping i can play and dunk tomorrow.
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maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #3136 on: August 17, 2016, 10:11:29 pm »
0
BW: 77.8kg / 171.5lb (LPR)

Some scale change finally .. cannot wait to finish this cycle.. i want to maintain <77kg once i come off it.
Training + bball game tonight..

BS 6x110, 3x120(LPR), 1x124.5(LPR)
Partial BS 6x140(PR), 6x150(PR),  6x170(PR)

Push Press 6x50, 5Fx60, 2Fx62.5, 2x6x57.5
JS 8x75(LPR), 8x57.5

Notes:
Struggln with squatn .. 110x6 is NOT a warmup right now it's a legit 6RM. Fk. I useda do these paused warmups .. how far i've fallen. Progressing my partial squats, i think 6s make sense .. though im willing to hear why 8-10 might be better? i guess i'll master it for 6s and then revisit, no point trying too many variables.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2016, 07:03:31 am by maxent »
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maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #3137 on: August 18, 2016, 11:22:11 am »
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Damn that was a really good game. Close one. We just lost it in the end. I played well but a few fouls i shudnt haev commited. Wonder if that cost us the game. Maybe it did. Doesn't matter. It's so hard to play with dead legs ... but i know that when i come off this squat volume i'll beast so iit's fine, patience for now.

 Had a revealation today.  Went to ball calm and unaroused. Normally im walking wired up and jacked up on stimulants and dunking energy. Diid not do try any dunk attempts. I know that just gets me more and more wiired up. It's so bad that when im in that state ii cant even do fine motor stuff like shoot a jumpshot. If i shoot one then i will overcompensate and airball or miss the top of the backboard lol. Basketball is a game i shud play completely sedatively  (spell check says nah but this shud be a word) .. ive lways this problem.. before a big game like a final or a comp i will be so wired up i cant sleep etc. it's just bad news.

noticed some track olympians being completely relaxed before their races.. which was suprising considering they sometimes have athletes getting popped for doing stims priior. i guess ii know what i have to do now. leave dunking for either after the game or another day. game day shud be about playing well, dunks unless submax take away from skill
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maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #3138 on: August 18, 2016, 08:15:44 pm »
0
Did a refeed last night, ate like 4 bread rolls on top of dinner. Wasn't planned but at least it was clean..

anyway next mornining..

BW: 78.3kg

which is pretty promising .. if i shed a kilo of water weight .. and if i dont, it means ive got work to do yet .. at least dieting off another 1.3kg so yeah.
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maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #3139 on: August 18, 2016, 08:33:16 pm »
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I woke up thinking I need to start doing TKEs .. whenever ive done them in the past they've made my legs look more impressive. Not sure if it's cause or effect though. Probably what happens is when my knees start to feel sore and buggy i start doing TKEs and the reason my knees felt sore and buggy is cos im doing volume with heavier weight which is what made my legs bigger. But anyways, im goiing with my subconscious on this ..

Also need stronger feet. Last 2 times i played basketball i sprained my Left ankle and Right ankle respectiively.  Part of me beliievs this is due to the extra training iive been doing ... dead legs from squats and sprints and stuff not being as fresh but also my feet not recovering as quickly (yet) .. so need to figure out a game plan on this .. hate buggy ankles .. miss having perfect health just before sunday :(
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Coges

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #3140 on: August 18, 2016, 09:57:17 pm »
+1
Had a revealation today.  Went to ball calm and unaroused. Normally im walking wired up and jacked up on stimulants and dunking energy. Diid not do try any dunk attempts. I know that just gets me more and more wiired up. It's so bad that when im in that state ii cant even do fine motor stuff like shoot a jumpshot. If i shoot one then i will overcompensate and airball or miss the top of the backboard lol. Basketball is a game i shud play completely sedatively  (spell check says nah but this shud be a word) .. ive lways this problem.. before a big game like a final or a comp i will be so wired up i cant sleep etc. it's just bad news.

noticed some track olympians being completely relaxed before their races.. which was suprising considering they sometimes have athletes getting popped for doing stims priior. i guess ii know what i have to do now. leave dunking for either after the game or another day. game day shud be about playing well, dunks unless submax take away from skill

Find whatever works for you. More often than not I have a red bull before a game. Caffeine doesn't really affect me that much but it's become part of my routine and doesn't affect me negatively. I also get into my zone/zen state/flow when I'm slightly pissed at the other team and play much better as a result.

If being calm works for you then do it. I disagree on the dunking thing though. I think the main benefit of dunking when we play is the intimidation factor for the other team. I don't see too many guys here in Aus outside of the real high levels dunking before or during games and it certainly puts the thought in the other teams mind that you are better than the average player. Whether or not that is actually true, perception becomes reality.
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
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T0ddday

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #3141 on: August 19, 2016, 05:08:45 am »
+2
Had a revealation today.  Went to ball calm and unaroused. Normally im walking wired up and jacked up on stimulants and dunking energy. Diid not do try any dunk attempts. I know that just gets me more and more wiired up. It's so bad that when im in that state ii cant even do fine motor stuff like shoot a jumpshot. If i shoot one then i will overcompensate and airball or miss the top of the backboard lol. Basketball is a game i shud play completely sedatively  (spell check says nah but this shud be a word) .. ive lways this problem.. before a big game like a final or a comp i will be so wired up i cant sleep etc. it's just bad news.

noticed some track olympians being completely relaxed before their races.. which was suprising considering they sometimes have athletes getting popped for doing stims priior. i guess ii know what i have to do now. leave dunking for either after the game or another day. game day shud be about playing well, dunks unless submax take away from skill

Find whatever works for you. More often than not I have a red bull before a game. Caffeine doesn't really affect me that much but it's become part of my routine and doesn't affect me negatively. I also get into my zone/zen state/flow when I'm slightly pissed at the other team and play much better as a result.

If being calm works for you then do it. I disagree on the dunking thing though. I think the main benefit of dunking when we play is the intimidation factor for the other team. I don't see too many guys here in Aus outside of the real high levels dunking before or during games and it certainly puts the thought in the other teams mind that you are better than the average player. Whether or not that is actually true, perception becomes reality.

I agree with Coges that planning to never dunk is unfortunate because there is nothing like an in-game dunk...

However...  you are on to something...

You clearly have learned some tricks as far as dunking and bodyweight and stimulation... As you are stating the mindset of "peak jumping" and "peak basketball skill" do not go together.  Not at all. 

You are calling it submax which I don't agree with - consider it sub optimal.  If you want to be the best basketball player you can be you have to get used to the fact that you are going to have to settle into a suboptimal amount of vertical that you play basketball with...

One of your tricks is carb-cycling and mini-starvation.  That's fine and good but a basketball player should never ever use the word refeed!  When Ray Allen became one of the best shooters in the world he maintained a bodyweight that was in a range of 2-3 pounds.  You are not doing this at all!   

That's fine and good for peaking for competition.  What you are doing is done by many high jumpers and long jumpers - they cut carbs and hardly eat and even take diuretics like calcium citrate that don't show up on drug screens for important competitions.  Dropping 10 pounds in a week can be the difference between jumping 7'5 and jumping 7'8.   This is what you have realized.

 But high jumpers don't constantly do this like you do because it's a terrible state to be in all the time to make long term gains.   Figure out what you have learned for peaking and use it sparingly when you get to a dunk contest - cut carbs, cut water, stim out, use hypergravity and jump as high as you can.  But you can't exist in that state if you want to be good at basketball.  I have done similar things, cut weight, used the weight vest, taken it off and been able to get ridiculous in game dunks at my height.... They are very impressive.. But if I play full court ball with competition in this state I basically run the fast break, play defense, rebound and cut to the hoop for dunks...  I don't try to get pretty or do stepbacks and even reverse layups become hard because I don't know my jumping ability well enough to time things...

 You can either relegate yourself to being that athletic role player or dedicate yourself to basketball which requires a stable bodyweight (you are saved by not having muscle so you have little glycogen and your refeeds are only a few pounds - if I cut and refeed it can be 20lbs over night...) and a stable level of stimulation...  In the long term not being glycogen depleted is what is going to help you lose the female body fat stores, build muscle and become a better player...

That's not to say you can't dunk in this state... It's just suboptimal... You will still get moments where you are bouncy and feel great in games, they just will have to come to you and won't always be there.  This is a choice you have to make - be the best at basketball and make long term gains or keep worrying about cutting weight and peaking vertical constantly. 

LBSS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #3142 on: August 19, 2016, 09:27:45 am »
+1
the word you were looking for is "sedately"  :lololol:
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

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maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #3143 on: August 20, 2016, 04:11:49 am »
0
BS 6x110, 4x117.5, 6x110, 6x107.5, 6x105

Sprints 100m x 5 (best time was 13:80; PR new exercise)
OHP 5x55, 4x55, 3-4Fx55, 6x50
Weighted Chinup 3x6x91.5(LPR)
Lat Pull Down 3x8
Cable Row 3x12

BW: 78.6kg

Notes:

Ded. Stood under the bar for like 5 minutes contemplating doing a 5th set with 102.5kg but i couldnt unrack it.. just too daunting. Thought to 'save' it for sprinting or something but im not sure if im gna do that anyway .. the weather is good though.
Anyway why the fuck cant i beat 4x117.5 .. the 4th rep is decidedly ugly that i decide against trying 5th but maybe i shud just do the ugliest make i can to progress. idk.

« Last Edit: August 20, 2016, 08:16:54 am by maxent »
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maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #3144 on: August 20, 2016, 06:49:26 am »
0
Started doing sprints proper .. not that interval stuff but all out ME sprints with plenty of recovery inbetween. I like it. First imrpessions are that i run out of juice in the last 5-10m? That's prob a fitness thing but otherwise i was surprised i could manage even that. Last wk i did 6x100 but wiith 25s rest and that was tough to get under 20s times. My best time was prob better today, the rep before the 13:80, but i pressed the wrong button on the gymboss. Next time i'll remmeber to take a stopwatch.

questions ...

what shud i aim for in terms of a goal for summer for measurable improvements? What can i hope for?

and im doing sprints to build reactivity, right? lifting weights to build strength/mass ... and practicing dunking/jumping to build movement efficiency/skill .. is this correct?
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maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #3145 on: August 20, 2016, 11:24:24 pm »
0
Had a revealation today.  Went to ball calm and unaroused. Normally im walking wired up and jacked up on stimulants and dunking energy. Diid not do try any dunk attempts. I know that just gets me more and more wiired up. It's so bad that when im in that state ii cant even do fine motor stuff like shoot a jumpshot. If i shoot one then i will overcompensate and airball or miss the top of the backboard lol. Basketball is a game i shud play completely sedatively  (spell check says nah but this shud be a word) .. ive lways this problem.. before a big game like a final or a comp i will be so wired up i cant sleep etc. it's just bad news.

noticed some track olympians being completely relaxed before their races.. which was suprising considering they sometimes have athletes getting popped for doing stims priior. i guess ii know what i have to do now. leave dunking for either after the game or another day. game day shud be about playing well, dunks unless submax take away from skill

Find whatever works for you. More often than not I have a red bull before a game. Caffeine doesn't really affect me that much but it's become part of my routine and doesn't affect me negatively. I also get into my zone/zen state/flow when I'm slightly pissed at the other team and play much better as a result.

If being calm works for you then do it. I disagree on the dunking thing though. I think the main benefit of dunking when we play is the intimidation factor for the other team. I don't see too many guys here in Aus outside of the real high levels dunking before or during games and it certainly puts the thought in the other teams mind that you are better than the average player. Whether or not that is actually true, perception becomes reality.

I *think* you shud be able to switch it on and off. If there is an aggressive switch, you dont wanna go to it 100% of the time during a game. Can you be aggressive on defense going for a block? Or rebound? Yes! But will you be aggressive when you catch the ball going into a jumpshot? Probably not. Being able to switch on and switch off is prob the most useful ability. Also being able to switch off after the game is important. Good athletes can go from alert and switched on and off at will and into parasympathetic mode after the game. Is this a trainable quality? I believe in one's ability to control the mind with discipline and dedication over a prolonged period of working at it. Def need to explore this more.
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maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #3146 on: August 20, 2016, 11:34:01 pm »
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I agree with Coges that planning to never dunk is unfortunate because there is nothing like an in-game dunk...

However...  you are on to something...

You clearly have learned some tricks as far as dunking and bodyweight and stimulation... As you are stating the mindset of "peak jumping" and "peak basketball skill" do not go together.  Not at all. 

You are calling it submax which I don't agree with - consider it sub optimal.  If you want to be the best basketball player you can be you have to get used to the fact that you are going to have to settle into a suboptimal amount of vertical that you play basketball with...

An in-game dunk would be amazing. But it's not happening any time now. My legs are just not quick enough. Ive accumulated enough fatigue that my reaction time is long and there is no way i can get a game dunk. Too slow. If you guys remember last month i described getting like 5-10 dunk atttempts in a pickup game ... i can get back there -- it was bc i was focusing mainly on bball and my reaction time was low from not being too fatigued. So I dont mind passing up the opportunity because it's not realistic to dunk. A few times in the last few weeks ive found myself thinking if i was fresher right now, i'd be trying to dunk. Instead i find by the time i gather and collect myself the defender is in my face and the dunk window closed. It's a milliseconds thing .. diff btw being able to dunk in-game and having the defender swarm you before you can even start the dunk.

What i was talking about was dunking during warmups. Usually you try to get yourself 'going' by dunking just  before hte game.. throwing down some before tipoff. That's what im avoiding. First off all, it's so dumb when you cant play well after setting yourself up apart by being able to dunk. So that's one of the reasons im going to stop. I'd rather get underestimated and play well than overestimated and play like shit. Dont care about winning or losing the mind game, i only care about how i perform relatively to my ability and getting too wired up hurts my game more than it helps. Being calm goes a long way. But you can still play well .. just being patient and calm waiting for the defender to commit to the shot before going for the block .. or boxing out the dangerous man etc. Making good sound decisions is more important than being overstimulated and not thinking (is this related to flight or fight?).
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maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #3147 on: August 20, 2016, 11:37:08 pm »
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Quote
That's not to say you can't dunk in this state... It's just suboptimal... You will still get moments where you are bouncy and feel great in games, they just will have to come to you and won't always be there.  This is a choice you have to make - be the best at basketball and make long term gains or keep worrying about cutting weight and peaking vertical constantly.

Hmmm... but think when you've been dunking regularly that you can do it first thing in the morning getting out of bed cold .. when you're in that state, a dunk (just a basic one) is submax. And like doing a layup. I think its fine to dunk like that cos it doesnt overstimulate you. But going for the biggest tomawawk you can muster and hitting the rim hard -- that will def jack you up your CNS .. lol.
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maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #3148 on: August 20, 2016, 11:55:55 pm »
0
Quote from: T0dday
One of your tricks is carb-cycling and mini-starvation.  That's fine and good but a basketball player should never ever use the word refeed!  When Ray Allen became one of the best shooters in the world he maintained a bodyweight that was in a range of 2-3 pounds.  You are not doing this at all!  That's fine and good for peaking for competition.  What you are doing is done by many high jumpers and long jumpers - they cut carbs and hardly eat and even take diuretics like calcium citrate that don't show up on drug screens for important competitions.  Dropping 10 pounds in a week can be the difference between jumping 7'5 and jumping 7'8.   This is what you have realized.

I absolutely agree with you that you can't play at your best (or even close to it) when you're doing these tricks. There isnt really a place for it in-season if you care about winning. Doing it to get to a peak is fine but not as a long term strategy even if it's always intended as a temporary one (once i get to X i will stop .. ).

Quote
But high jumpers don't constantly do this like you do because it's a terrible state to be in all the time to make long term gains.   Figure out what you have learned for peaking and use it sparingly when you get to a dunk contest - cut carbs, cut water, stim out, use hypergravity and jump as high as you can.  But you can't exist in that state if you want to be good at basketball.  I have done similar things, cut weight, used the weight vest, taken it off and been able to get ridiculous in game dunks at my height.... They are very impressive.. But if I play full court ball with competition in this state I basically run the fast break, play defense, rebound and cut to the hoop for dunks...  I don't try to get pretty or do stepbacks and even reverse layups become hard because I don't know my jumping ability well enough to time things...

 You can either relegate yourself to being that athletic role player or dedicate yourself to basketball which requires a stable bodyweight (you are saved by not having muscle so you have little glycogen and your refeeds are only a few pounds - if I cut and refeed it can be 20lbs over night...) and a stable level of stimulation...  In the long term not being glycogen depleted is what is going to help you lose the female body fat stores, build muscle and become a better player...

I love all those tricks. They're amazing. But they're staying firmly in the toolbox! I wanna see how far i can with just basics. For example right now im not using creatine. Just simple dieting and training hard. Once ive gotten somewhere i feel is decent i will employ the tricks .. but i dont think i am using them right now. When i say a refeed it deosnt mean ive been restricting carbs especially a lot otherwise .. it just means i eat MORE carbs after or during heavy training days. i say heavy to mean active not necessarily weights related. so on a day i lift weights, run sprints, maybe dunk etc i will eat more carbs. That's not a refeed as such in the context of a cyclical lowcarb diet. But im abusing the terminology all the same so i apologise for the confusion...

Right now im getting in shape and adding mass to my body and also getting leaner ... so ive got a good thing going. Will ride it as long as i can. Then peak (use some tricks you mentuioned). I know it's not goign to last, eventually you have to pick and choose one but for now im able to improve several areas simultaneously.

really hoping sprints will help me though..
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T0ddday

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #3149 on: August 21, 2016, 03:51:17 pm »
+1
I love all those tricks. They're amazing. But they're staying firmly in the toolbox! I wanna see how far i can with just basics. For example right now im not using creatine. Just simple dieting and training hard. Once ive gotten somewhere i feel is decent i will employ the tricks .. but i dont think i am using them right now. When i say a refeed it deosnt mean ive been restricting carbs especially a lot otherwise .. it just means i eat MORE carbs after or during heavy training days. i say heavy to mean active not necessarily weights related. so on a day i lift weights, run sprints, maybe dunk etc i will eat more carbs. That's not a refeed as such in the context of a cyclical lowcarb diet. But im abusing the terminology all the same so i apologise for the confusion...

Ehhh... Well the level of "tricks" I described was pretty maximal...  But say I described a 10/10 bodyweight/diet manipulation protocol for peaking... I'll admit your not there... But, my point is that your at a 5/10 which is still too high for long term progress...   

Quote
Right now im getting in shape and adding mass to my body and also getting leaner ... so ive got a good thing going.

really hoping sprints will help me though..

If your truly simultaneously doing those things then you are just a natural beast.  Not saying it's impossible... Just saying at your current level (your no longer a beginner) it's hard to imagine...  I do see you repeatedly failing on adding weight to your squat - you don't think a restrictive diet is holding you back here? 

That said...  I think you should do one of two things... If your pretty busy in life...  Keep at what your doing...  IMO weekend warriors or people who can't train as often need to be on the most restrictive of diets and they can still progress with limited training although it will be slow...

However, if you have the free time I think you are ready for what I call "training camp transformation".   This is what you should do if you want to add in sprinting in earnest.   Basically... Up the work to more than you think you can handle - overreach to a ridiculous degree on all movements that are not extremely reactive AND up that calories.  For a lean athlete like yourself calories are pretty much steroids if you work hard enough to deserve them...  Add in sprint volume, lifting frequency, etc while adding calories and you won't gain fat and will become a beast... It does take time out your day but if your at a point in life where you can do this or have an upcoming point in life where this is possible you won't regret blasting for 4-8 weeks at ridiculous volume...  Basically, I would describe your athleticism like a skinny high school football player who is starting college football the USA.   Seeing what happens when those kids go through summer workouts and get to add college food ad libitum is pretty amazing... Come in at 6'3 ~170 and come out at 6'3 ~185 and jumping higher, running faster, being way stronger...  You could do this but it would involve training 1-2 times a day at pretty high intensity...

Also... At least in the states women REALLY seem to prefer 6'3 190 over 6'3 170...  First level of body discrimination for women is height (short guys don't get love) and second is density (skinny dudes struggle)...  So that might help you in other aspects of life....  Although, despite the happiness I would get seeing you post about your success with the ladies... It's about 1% of what I would get if you would post your first windmill dunk... So yeah forget that... Women will probably distract you anyway.  Carry on.