Author Topic: chasing athleticism  (Read 1463224 times)

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Raptor

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2835 on: April 28, 2016, 05:24:41 am »
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Well, speed is a manifestation of quickness combined with strength. Where strength is non needed, you have "quickness" (for example, how many spacebar key strokes can you get in 10 seconds? The best I got was 110,  I think). That's quickness. Speed is a manifestation of quickness + strength, or quickness + the force to overcome your own bodyweight to express that quickness. That's it.

Now, the movements in which you express that "speed" better or worse depend on the muscle strength that these movements depend upon, your natural quickness (CNS quickness), the muscle strength ratios and your movement efficiency in that particular movement (how often did you practice it with proper form).

So if you feel like you need speed... well... why don't you do sprints while also continuing to improve the posterior chain in the gym? Other than that, all these low level plyos that I suggested are reactive in nature, but submax, so the strength part plays less importance but the "quickness" part (CNS) plays more importance (trying to emphasize low ground contact times, even if you don't get up or forward maximally).

Combine training like this with the strength you get from the weight room and you get speed.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2836 on: April 28, 2016, 05:42:53 am »
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Well, speed is a manifestation of quickness combined with strength. Where strength is non needed, you have "quickness" (for example, how many spacebar key strokes can you get in 10 seconds? The best I got was 110,  I think). That's quickness. Speed is a manifestation of quickness + strength, or quickness + the force to overcome your own bodyweight to express that quickness. That's it.

Now, the movements in which you express that "speed" better or worse depend on the muscle strength that these movements depend upon, your natural quickness (CNS quickness), the muscle strength ratios and your movement efficiency in that particular movement (how often did you practice it with proper form).

So if you feel like you need speed... well... why don't you do sprints while also continuing to improve the posterior chain in the gym? Other than that, all these low level plyos that I suggested are reactive in nature, but submax, so the strength part plays less importance but the "quickness" part (CNS) plays more importance (trying to emphasize low ground contact times, even if you don't get up or forward maximally).

Combine training like this with the strength you get from the weight room and you get speed.

Speed for a basketball player isn't about sprinting though, is it. I mean fast breaks aside, it's about going from 0 to dunk as dt -> 0 kinda thing. I'm not sure. A better word than speed might be quickness but acceleration might be even better.
Training for balance in GPP and SPP.

Raptor

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2837 on: April 28, 2016, 06:05:02 am »
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Speed is also the ability to decelerate/change directions. That's what you're also programming yourself to be better at using low level/submax plyos.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2838 on: April 28, 2016, 06:18:37 am »
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Plyos that involve moving across the floor though! Cause i do jump squats, depth jumps and dunks already and have that plane covered (up and down). Moving across the floor efficiently is where i'm lacking. It seems you're saying quickness will carry over in any plane but it hasn't / doesn't so it has to be trained specifically. Lets not conjecture about this, it hasn't worked so something different is needed
Training for balance in GPP and SPP.

Raptor

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2839 on: April 28, 2016, 06:50:29 am »
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Why don't you do the skaters jumps that LBSS is doing? Or slalom jumps going forward? Or jumps over a knee-high rope while also going forward? Bounds. Sprints. Short distance sprints. Long distance sprints. Suicides (very basketball specific). And so on.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

LBSS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2840 on: April 28, 2016, 08:55:03 am »
+5
much of what you think you know about training is actually mistaken. you've read some articles, you know a little bit about training, you know how to do some exercises, you know a little about diet, and your brain has made what feel like big logical connections. but those connections are mostly off. it's as if you started playing a video game where you can see part of the map, and with your imagination you have filled in the blank spaces erroneously but with a great deal of confidence. now you're trying to navigate around the blank parts and every time you reach a place that doesn't reflect the scheme that you made up, you either make a violent effort to proceed as if your mental map is correct, or else you say, "fuck that way, i didn't want to go that way anyway," and you turn around. but the treasure is on the other side of the blank part of the map! and we have an active member whose version of the map is much more complete than yours, who is willing to help you get there for free!

so, here is some unsolicited advice: stop thinking you know better. better yet, stop thinking you know anything. allow yourself to be led. your commitment and drive are unmatched on this site except maybe by adarq and t0ddday. you've made some great progress at times. but you're shooting yourself in the foot over and over. just listen to t0ddday.

or keep spinning your wheels and engaging in the world's most pointless (because, again, your premises are wrong) intellectual wankery.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2841 on: April 28, 2016, 09:21:54 am »
+1
So the Zen of emptying your glass first? I appreciate the message even though it's a tad patronising.  I admit I have been less than open to trying things that may help progress rather than spinning my wheels. In my defence it wasn't that I always want to avoid them forever but I wanted to achieve one or two things first before moving on to others. Am closer now than ever, for whatever that's worth.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2016, 09:23:52 am by maxent »
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LBSS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2842 on: April 28, 2016, 10:17:59 am »
+2
i didn't meant to be patronizing although i understand why it comes across that way. sorry for that. you're obviously very bright, this is not to do with your intelligence. actually i think your intelligence is getting in your way.

you don't have to empty your glass, but in my experience the quickest progress comes when i find someone i believe to be credible and i follow their advice. i still enjoy learning about training, pain management, diet, etc. but my own training has gone best when i've stopped second-guessing adarq, or t0ddday, or even kelly baggett years ago, and just done what they said.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2843 on: April 29, 2016, 01:28:55 am »
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<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLAxWC6mKrM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLAxWC6mKrM</a>

lmao trying to learn how to drive in the states from dash cam footage off youtube  :wowthatwasnutswtf:
Training for balance in GPP and SPP.

Raptor

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2844 on: April 29, 2016, 03:22:58 am »
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You should search for similar footage from Russia
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2845 on: April 29, 2016, 06:00:54 am »
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You should search for similar footage from Russia

Yep, crazy!
Training for balance in GPP and SPP.

maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2846 on: April 29, 2016, 06:06:47 am »
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BS 6x110
BP 2x90(LPR), 5x82.5(LPR), 7x80(LPR), 6x81(LPR)
DIP 3x8x10kg, 8xBW

BS 7x70, 8x70
Plate swings
Medball throws 2x6x10kg (hit a PR of around 9m)
Curls

BW: 178.4

Notes:
Back didn't complain .. thankfully. But my legs were ded and i didn't force the issue by trying to do volume squats. Will do them sunday with fresher legs. That means i will skip track stuff today also. Took the medball to the park but soccer practice was on. I might do curls and more bench tonight though and maybe some recovery squats.

« Last Edit: April 29, 2016, 09:25:09 am by maxent »
Training for balance in GPP and SPP.

maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2847 on: April 29, 2016, 08:36:02 am »
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I know everoyne complains about houston for various reasons but honestly I dont see what the fuss is about with Golden state either. Watched some of the series and i was sorely disappointed in both teams play. Curry is out but still, that's just one player. Def enjoyed the atlanta and celtic series so much more .. maybe more than any other series ive ever watched except for the historically great spurs dismantling miami a few years back.
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ghettoracer

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2848 on: April 29, 2016, 09:31:58 am »
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I know everoyne complains about houston for various reasons but honestly I dont see what the fuss is about with Golden state either. Watched some of the series and i was sorely disappointed in both teams play. Curry is out but still, that's just one player. Def enjoyed the atlanta and celtic series so much more .. maybe more than any other series ive ever watched except for the historically great spurs dismantling miami a few years back.

curry makes a huge difference to how fun GSW is to watch.  without him GSW is still an excellent team with excellent team work.  but with him, it's completely up another level.  when Bulls did the 72 wins i didn't watch NBA closely and i certainly didn't understand the game as much as i have now.  for GSW to start the season 24-0 and it took the last game to finally eclipse 73-9 shows how amazing the Bulls team was and how difficult it is to break it.  however the reality is GSW legitly poised to better it next season as the team is just entering the prime with all key cogs booked and salary cap increase... etc.

what's the warriors about?  #1 offense and pretty much #1 or 2 defense to go with it.  top 2 shooters, best team work, great execution and coaching.  pretty much minimal weakness.  the team legitimately grew collectively and individually over the last few years and that is very rare.  of course i'm somewhat biased as i grew up in sf bay.  but i simply enjoy good bball.  i rooted for OKC in 2011-13 but with 2 super stars the team just never really grew much.  if GSW is anywhere else, i would root for another team similar to this.
current stats: age: 42 :: 5'11" (180cm) :: 180lbs (82kg) bf ~30% :: reach: 90" or 7'6" (230cm) :: wing span: 6" (183cm)
12 week goal(current): SQ 115kg(100), DL 130kg(110), BP 80kg(70), reduce weight to 75kg (165 lbs) and bf to ~25%
status: excellent cardio condition, new 5x5 program, 10' rim touch okay, RVJ ~30"
PR RVJ ~34" 10'5" touch @ age ~25 (worst was ~6" below rim when i was @ 190 lbs ~35% body fat ~23" RVJ in 2007-8

maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2849 on: April 30, 2016, 12:49:45 am »
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Can't figure out why i'm in a slump ... but last night this is what happened



So yeah, this is how i un-do months of hard work in a single stroke .. sometimes.
Training for balance in GPP and SPP.