Adarq.org

Not necessarily true. I tried to find some studied backing up training medball throws but the study I found came to the conclusion it's a good test for athletic ability and not very good for improving athleticism. But what's a study worth etc etc, no need to rehash that tired old chestnut. Dont wanna turn this log into a debate on the pros and cons of some study, so google on your own.

These are just tests, which is cool but doing maximal effort tests as training makes no sense .. it will just lead to frustration, esp if you take it seriously (like i do). I wouldn't test my squat max every workout, so why am i testing my bounds or medball throws maxes every workout? I can understand why a shotputter wud do that (cause it's his sport) .. or someone who throws the javelin, but im not in the sport of throwing medballs or bounds .. so what gives? I'm still not convinced this is a sustainable way to train for longer than a week lol. Fine to do a test once in a while to compare where you were and where you are but that's it, not training, testing. 

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDBR2L5kzI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDBR2L5kzI</a>

I wanna see how big and slow I can really be while still dunking on fools.

I thought you still hadn't even achieved an in game dunk?

Seriously your recent posts have just broke the record for your habit of just making things up out of thin air and adhering to these lies and dismissing others like there is any reason to...  Face the facts.  You jump 28 inches and are slow.  Most of these people on the board have trained athletes or themselves to jump far higher but you insist on making up rules like you are the expert... Why?

An exercise has to be weekly improvable to be useful?  Why?  Because you said so?  No.  There is some utility to having athletes perform exercises that are measurable but unfortunately not all are.  That doesn't make them useless.  Speed bounds are amazing in developing sprinters.  Primetime straight leg bounds are one of the best ways to get a quad dominant athlete to learn how to apply an accelerating foot into the ground.  Primetime skips are not even measurable yet alone improvable.  Yet they are very valuable.  No coach would disagree.

Your ironic dismissal of raptors shooting example when you brought up squats for a beginner as an improvable exercise.  Your realize that when a beginner adds weight to the squat it is all neural in the beginning.  Yes.  They are getting coordinated at squatting - or as you like to say "improving their skill not their strength."   How ironic that you dismissed raptors example when yours was the same. 

Look at others on this board that have surpassed your gains.  Look at LBSS who jumped 37" and dunked a ball at 5'10.  How did he do it?  Ask him.  Weirdly enough he will tell you he did it in large part to greasing the groove, to practicing his ME jumps over and over and over.  What an idiot though... ME jumps are a test, not a exercise!  There were multiple weeks where LBSS didn't even add half an inch to his ME jumps!  He should have just stopped jumping and done squats and cleans and retested his jump when he was stronger right?? 

If you want a squat centric example look at KF.  He squats a lot.  His squat is hardly improvable.  He will add no poundage to his squat for months just getting better at it and then cutting weight or occasionally trying to up volume or beginning jump practice where he does do reps of jumping tests.  He doesn't get better week in and week out in terms of poundage but he has an effective formula for himself where he doesn't need to switch to exercises each week that make him improve.


I'm sorry to sound judge mental but your suffering from what is a classic "weak" persons syndrome.  You were weak and a terrible athlete.  Your learned about the gym and weights and training and now are no longer weak but you are "mediocre".  The gym also gave u more confidence and you want to be buff and strong and no longer the weak guy.  You think that given all the benefit the gym and training has given you that it must be the key to more gains.  You can go outside and do bounds or ball tosses but your bad at this stuff and don't like doing things where you don't feel like your good.  You look silly and unimpressive and there are probably 14 year old kids that could come up to you and ask you what your doing and outbound you.  That sucks.  Won't happen in ththe squat rack or hip thrusts.   But that's EXACTLY why you should do it.  You are getting free training from a great community and don't want to take the steps to become great which is disheartening for them.   You are already noticing differences in your sprinting in two weeks but still are not convinced!!!!

Bottom line is you don't need double leg bounding or ball tosses.  Not one bit.  I've seen many great athletes developed without either exercise.  But I have never seen a great athlete developed with the level of resistance to ball tosses or bounding when a coach prescribed them to them that you have! 

Sometimes we outsmart ourselves as athletes.  No coach is always right.  But if a coach is 90% right that's exceptional.  If so just follow the coach and stop wasting your cns trying to figure out what he has you doing that isn't perfect for your goals.  Listen.  Follow.  Obey.  Develop.  The lack of stress you get by letting a coach design your workout and just following is worth a lot in itself.

lmao did you just read into a joke even though I already told Coges i wasn't serious about weighing 300lb and dunking on fools? It's hard to have a meaningful exchange here when ppl are trying their best to misunderstand you or indulge in bad debating tactics. It's normal form for raptor to be a spazz and argue like an idiot (excluding the middle, claiming some contrived counter example disproves a rule, ..., etc) but i should know better than to take him seriously in the first place. Self restraint to avoid being dragged into his childish games is definitely below PR levels right now.. haha.

But i'm not going to get into why I dont want to do maximum effort bounds and throws twice, thrice a week while already having high demands on my recovery from normal training. Everything is finiite including how much "effort" you have available for ME type things. I'm not putting all of mine into bounds and throws alone done maximally in lieu of regular training. That might be appropriate for LBSS at some stage or phase, even me, but not week in week out for months and years at a time. I'm not saying that's what i'm being sold but i dont do anything for 2 or 3 weeks at a time, i want to do it long term. LBSS knows that bout me, rest of you obivously dont but whatever. Nor do i think that would help me or anyone else already training (you can disagree with existing training, i'm sure ppl will have different ideas on what's important and what's not).

Cliffs to the last coupla pages, I didn't realise it but i was looking for a programming solution to a programming problem. I'm slowly starting to figure out how i'm gonna make it all work in terms of sustainable long term training. When I get back, I will organise it into "speed" and "strength" and also "plyo" and "dynamic" days for a lack of a better word. And if i can organise everything nicely it will work synergestically instead of at odds with itself.

Have to go, late for the airport :/  i cant believe i'm typing this shit right now .. seriously, i'm disappointed in myself for getting into this lately. Will def take a step back from talking about training so much and following my intuition more. These are things of belief and it's like arguing politics and religion and I never do those either because I'd like to think i'm wise enough to avoid it for the right reasons. Peace.

btw, i do appreciate i have to change things up quite significantly but i have alreaady been going down that path by even doing stuff like RDLs (fucking half deadlifts) and hip thrusts (mickeymouse nonsense) and track work (squat killers).. so there are germs of change already in place .. some of them for several months already! If you are expecting me to abandon my addiction to certain things (squat ratio) after chasing them unsuccessfully for years .. then you are going to be disappointed. If anything, going without achieving the goal for so long makes me re-double on getting it out of the way, rather than subsituting it for another thing (of many things I know i need but it was always a matter of prioritising on one or two rather than trying to do many other htings even more unsuccessfully).

^^^ Forgive me for not realizing that the joke was actually a non sequitur.  Maybe it's an American/Australian thing but here I might make a joke like "I want to see if I can still dunk at 300lbs" even though I clearly don't want to be 300lbs.  But I can dunk.  I wouldn't say "I want to see if I can still run a 4 minute mile at 300lbs" because I cannot run a 4 minute mile so that is nonsense... Instead I might say "maybe getting to 300lbs will allow me to run a 4 minute mile".  Maybe it's a cultural difference, maybe your Sartre reincarnated, but my reading into your suggestion was not unreasonable for any normal person...

Great.  You haven't made significant gains chasing arbitrary ratios.  And now you refuse to stop chasing the arbitrary ratios that haven't paid off in any measurable athleticism.  There is no reason but yourself as to why you won't jump 35 inches and will be stuck in sub 30 purgatory...

 But your insistence on micromanaging your training and doing research and coming up with theory and idea will continue to take precedence... 

Last point... I just got back from emotion symposium which is a great conference and we really need to not underestimate the power the belief and the brain has on our results...

You will spend your time writing the ultimate training split with "dynamic" and "plyo" days and evaluating and researching and denigrating exercises by calling RDLs half-deadlifts or what ever else you want to criticize.  Your energy will go toward this endeavor and you might be rewarded w a log book that has th  ultimate categorized perfect training split!!!

The rest of us... We will just follow a well thought out program designed by good coaches and tweaked by ourselves.  It won't be perfect, maybe only 80% right.  But we will believe in it 100% and stick to it, be patient and make ridiculous gains.

+ 2

It really is quite frustrating to try and help you. It feels like flogging a dead horse... it doesn't even seem that you want to listen or acknowledge the valuable points made by different members of the forum (mostly TOddday). I mean this information given is just such a great resource but rather than using it you prefer to stick with your approach which clearly doesn't yield the best results.

I got the sarcasm I wasn't really talking about that.

^Great post KF. Thanks for sharing.

Vids, there was a prob with it cutting off the end, reuploaded..

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkxVn_DsElY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkxVn_DsElY</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EWz9UhrOB4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EWz9UhrOB4</a>

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10 more days of training then i am travelling. I will prob go all in on bounds and stuff while on the road. Not sure if i'll be able to lift weights or even play basketball while abroad. Here it's not hard to train at a gym, theres casual passes etc but idk if that's the case in the states.

anyway .. im thinking i'll do 1s, 2s, 3s even upto 10s on broad jumps .. for variety .. will keep it from getting too stale. Im getting about 3m (green line above) on 1s .. so i think if i get better / reactive i shud be able to get 3s over 9m and over time maybe work towards 10m (prob not, i'm not built for horizontal locamotion as a sprinter wud be .. so my ceiling is prob closer to 9m than 10m but we'll see what happens. I really dont think this will add any to my athleticism either .. but it's ok, training can be rewarding for it's own sake, so i'm ok with not getting anything other than satisfaction from improving measurements and achieving goals.).

Lately im sure the way to achieve the specific kind of movement efficiency I need is just pouring hours and hours into moving on the court. In the past that was always something i avoided; utter boredom lol. but things are changed. Now i'm seriously focusing on becoming a better player which is a different thing than lifting weights to jump an inch or two higher without also getting quicker meant no improvement in real athletic terms and thus no carry over to basketball. Squats arent gonna make me faster .. they just make me jump higher cause i can produce more force but that's useless without a commensurate increase in speed. I wont get game time dunks, blocks or rebounds out of those vertical gains unless i get much much much faster. Movement efficiency at basketball movements will help me more than anything else. Not broad jumps, not medball throws, not squats, powercleans, ultimately these wont help.  Nothing but doing the same on-court moves over and over and over and over and over will. Sounds boring but the results will be worth it if i persevere. I think i can commit to that. I have the motivation (winning next year), what I need now to find a way to make it sustainable and progressive over time. That's challenging though, in a different way to lifting weights .. it's "easy" but less "arousing" .. "simple" but "draining".  And there is no "payoff" that's gratifying like landing a great dunk but latent in something that will happen on the sports field months later.  Training if formalise it into a series of drills or workouts and just repeat them over time it will take the guess/work out of it and it becomes habit and routine? I guess that's the key.

Tbh i would like to get my lift goals and put them on maintenance .. then focus on movement efficiency for the remainder of the time. That would be ideal. But now my back is fucked up im prob going to find everything goes down the drain Sucks cause my legs, buttocks, back are all much muscular lately .. wont be able to keep that muscle without lifting. oh well.