Author Topic: chasing athleticism (Read 1467354 times)

adarqui · « **Reply #2775 on:** April 20, 2016, 11:13:48 am »

Quote from: maxent link=topic=4850.msg118310#msg118310
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Notes: [/u]
Proud of myself, did a set of 5 on BS and had the self discipline to leave it at that. Nothing was to be gained by forcing some meaningless PRs on squats. Saving it for track & dunking

nice

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On depth jumps i'm kinda meh about this exercise. I will try to increase frequency and do them twice weekly. The first one will be "intense" 2x6 off 21" and the 2nd one can be "volume" 3x8 off 12-16". That will help me separate depth jumps into strength and speed days respectively. Hopefully that gives better bang for buck.

do you have a goal overhead to reach for? ie bball rim, vertec, something? that makes depth jumping more effective & fun.. the exercise definitely becomes less meh when there's something to reach for (or even a jump matt, but no one has those).

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Broad jumps .. hit a PR then had to leave immediately after. Got it on vid. Later realised i had left it on 720p and forgot to change to 1080p to get better quality. Oh well. Next time.. haha. Video below anyways.

^whaddya reckon guys .. am i improving or nah?

wish you had that exact angle for when you initially performed the exercise.. because compared to your first video, looks dramatically better now. Overall it looked good. I personally prefer the style in your last jump, which is more of an "upright bounce, with less time gathering yourself on the ground".. but that's hard to do on your first broad jump. If you were doing 5-10 broad jumps, most of them would be in the style of that last jump, which is good.

As for movement efficiency for hands/arms, ya it's definitely a thing. You ever see people who are just complete spazzes with their arms/shoulders? Your arm swing looks good overall, especially on the 2nd/3rd jumps. Your first broad jump takes a while to get going, try and be more aggressive on that first jump & see what happens.

video quality was nice.. looked like a great day out.

pc!

T0ddday · « **Reply #2776 on:** April 20, 2016, 11:27:10 am »

Movement efficiency for the arms is def a thing. But if your a basketball player it can be frustrating. Look at Raptors comments in my journal and my jumps without the ball and with it. Mastering arms is great but when you hold a basketball you might have to relearn to maximize a new non optimal arm swing...

In fact if you look at my journal that vertical was build by literally all bounding and sprinting a just a month or so of low volume infrequent vertical specific work (mostly cause my knees don't like vertical landings). So the bounding is "base" but not as "base" as squats. What I mean is bounding itself probably will add very little to your vert, but when you go back to training it you will quickly make gains. And you will have immediate payoff for other sports movements especially w single leg bounding and skater style forward bounds.

As far as your broad jumps. From what I see its 100x better than the last one but still pretty bad as far as hip extension being absent. Back is straight but no hip hyper extension whatsoever... But given that you went from a 2 out of 10 to a 7 in one week might not make sense to give you coaching yet... If you bound another meter farther next time I bet it will be because you have figured it out yourself.... Otherwise I'll give you some cues...

maxent · « **Reply #2777 on:** April 20, 2016, 11:28:19 am »

@adarqui

You know that might actually restore my faith in depth jumps as a staple exercise if i had a concrete measurable goal for it. I don't have a place to do jumps at a rim (unfortunately). However. maybe i cud take a milk crate or something to the courts and try that? It wouldn't be high but portable. Or i could try rig something up at home with string. That might be fun. Hmmm!

I'm kinda cooling on broad jumps and medball throws. I like doing broad jumps a lot, because it's something new but i want to know how i will improve from 8.5m to 10m and possibly 11m which is what i've been set as a decent goal and dream goal respectively I think they're a good way to test an athlete .. but do they improve one? Does anything? Is it just squats all the way down .. and i just need to man up and add some plates to my PR? I hate myself again x2. But seriously, how am i gonna add 1.5m to my broadjump .. is it just going to happen by practising? Or do i need to gain some strength / muscle mass and then it will happen? This is so confusing. I stopped using the 6kg ball today though, cant be bothered measuring out that far. The 10kg is nice and easier to measure and i can track and measure landings fine on my own without a training partner, mainly cause they fall within the same range as my broadjumps on the printed markers of the field..

Thanks it was a nice day! And i prefer doing track stuff at that time .. the grass isnt wet, like it was tongiht when i did the medball throws. damn near lost one overhead which sucked cause it was slippery af. Will make the change from here on, 1080p and in daylight for bounds/throws.

maxent · « **Reply #2778 on:** April 20, 2016, 11:37:36 am »

Quote from: T0ddday on April 20, 2016, 11:27:10 am

Movement efficiency for the arms is def a thing. But if your a basketball player it can be frustrating. Look at Raptors comments in my journal and my jumps without the ball and with it. Mastering arms is great but when you hold a basketball you might have to relearn to maximize a new non optimal arm swing...

In fact if you look at my journal that vertical was build by literally all bounding and sprinting a just a month or so of low volume infrequent vertical specific work (mostly cause my knees don't like vertical landings). So the bounding is "base" but not as "base" as squats. What I mean is bounding itself probably will add very little to your vert, but when you go back to training it you will quickly make gains. And you will have immediate payoff for other sports movements especially w single leg bounding and skater style forward bounds.

As far as your broad jumps. From what I see its 100x better than the last one but still pretty bad as far as hip extension being absent. Back is straight but no hip hyper extension whatsoever... But given that you went from a 2 out of 10 to a 7 in one week might not make sense to give you coaching yet... If you bound another meter farther next time I bet it will be because you have figured it out yourself.... Otherwise I'll give you some cues...

That gives me an idea. I cud use the medball and do like throws with one hand and stuff. But i'm really looking forward to finishing up with 2 leg bounds (==broad jumps?) and focusing on SL bounds. I dont wanna jump from one thing to another and be useless at everthing, want to master broad jumps first. Then i'll focus on SL. I think SL will do more for my basketball athleticism cause lets face it, someone as slow as me has to do everything SL since i'm already moving in slow motion and DL movements are just too slow at game speed. I'm a better at jumping of DL of course but most jumps on the court (all?) are done SL if i'm being honest with myself

maxent · « **Reply #2779 on:** April 20, 2016, 11:54:16 am »

RE hip extension on jumps -- I consciously tried to use my "hips" during a dunk tonight .. and ... i found myself reflexively doing an air Jordan ^TM thing in the air. Is this kinda what we're getting that? I know i dont do that "leg kick" thing others do on their jumps .. i know it's supposed to help you jump higher but ive never really done it except by accident once or twice .. (i have a vid of me from last year doing it unwittingly, i can upload to illustrate). And i guess if i can do those on broad jumps i will go further? Interesting. Can't wait to try it out next time.

Raptor · « **Reply #2780 on:** April 20, 2016, 12:23:03 pm »

I have personally found out that how much the arms are straight (or the elbow bent) matters quite a bit in jumps, of any kind. I usually like to arm swing with arms almost straight, off two legs, and that overwhelms my plant and I can't recover from that. The momentum of the arms being kept straight puts so much force into my legs that they collapse.

If I keep my elbows bent, or twist my arms to the side (like simulating an airplane) with arms straight, it's easier to recover and jump, as I plant. But I guess that's just because I'm too weak to deal with the added power straight arm swings put into my legs.

Also, a jump with the arms a little bent is quicker - to pendulate the arms around your body as they are straight takes quite some time and increases the ground contact time, from what I have personally seen in me and other people I trained with.

T0ddday · « **Reply #2781 on:** April 20, 2016, 04:28:37 pm »

^^^ your last 3 posts really confuse me to no end. You are losing faith in double leg horizontal hops because you don't think they will help you jump farther. You are also about to master them and then move on to something else? You also think they are more of a test than a exercise... You also think you need strength rather than "practice".

Seriously can you stick w a program for more than a few weeks? You won't master this anytime soon. First of all there is a big distance between broad jump and what you are doing which is double leg bounding. Best way to get better at bounding is to bound. This might blow your mind but practicing your bounds actually builds strength. You have to move away from this paradigm where you think squats make you strong and everything else is movement practice. You squat more than most guys in th nba. Almost all of them are stronger than you. Most sprinters hardly lift weights. Look at the glute, ab, back, hamstring development... You need to get better at bounding. You also need to get stronger. Both come from bounding. Right now you need to use your hips at takeoff which you don't do at all... Squatting and decelerating a weight right when you need hip extension won't help.

maxent · « **Reply #2782 on:** April 21, 2016, 12:24:13 am »

I will try to clear the confusion haha. I mean for an exercise to be effective for training as opposed for testing it should be improvable .. not necessarily weekly but close enough to it. I just don't see how i improve my throws or bounds measurements regularly? I'm sure you will see all these glaring fixable faults but when im doing the exercise, i'm doing my best to better my PR .. not thinking about all the different flaws that might or might not be occurring at the instant i'm doing it. With the 3Bro -- i pretty much stalled last workout, i dont think i added a 1cm to my previous PR effort done on friday! There was improvement from day 0 sure, but beyond that, it's behaving more like a test whose performance i am replicating than a training thing which i'm improving my performance at regularly and measurably. With the medball throws they're landing in the same exact spot there's not a crater there lol. Does that make sense?

Btw at 1cm/week improvement .. i'll reach the 10m broadjump goal in ......... just under 3 years. Yikes. If i can get that to 10cm a week i would be happy cause that brings the time frame down to 3 months .. woooho!

Is this something you have to deal with as a sprinter where you might not see changes in months and then boom something happens and you get some improvement out of the blue? I feel like i'm going through the motions and without seeing the results .. it's kinda demotivating .. i'm not expecting carry over to the basketball court instantly but at least at the exercise i shud be improving to keep myself driving towards goals. I didn't realise it would be so hard to get improvements but i guess i should have expected that.

LBSS · « **Reply #2783 on:** April 21, 2016, 06:52:52 am »

two things:
1. you don't do exercises like bounds for their own sake. you do them because they teach your body something. you just started learning how to do them. be patient.
2. improvement doesn't have to be - and in fact rarely is - linear. you might struggle to get technique right for bounds for a while and then all of a sudden something clicks and you get a 50cm improvement all at once. you follow my journal, you know how long i was at 33-34 on my "good" days and then how suddenly that jumped up by 2-3 inches.

Raptor · « **Reply #2784 on:** April 21, 2016, 07:13:21 am »

I've given up on my diet, too. Tried it for 1 day and didn't see any effects.

LBSS · « **Reply #2785 on:** April 21, 2016, 07:48:03 am »

Quote from: Raptor on April 21, 2016, 07:13:21 am

I've given up on my diet, too. Tried it for 1 day and didn't see any effects.

+1 looool

maxent · « **Reply #2786 on:** April 21, 2016, 08:57:30 am »

He stared up into the dewy sky now littered with stars, wiped his brow and psyched himself up for his next attempt. Like magic, his quads dishibited, his glutes engaged for the first time, propelling him across the ground in 3 long bounds, he had finally set a PR behind him. How did it happen and more importantly what could he do to repeat it? He had done the same thing over and over, a thousand times before. It was a random mutation which unlocked in him a movement efficiency never before seen. Never to be seen again, he grimaced, the lens of his camera had retracted, propped on 3 shaky legs sat unevenly in the unruly grass. NO would ever believe him and the recording had cut out just as he began the rep, recalling @adarqui who had told him to be aggressive and not take so long to begin. And he repeats the insanity, expecting this time things would be different, but not today.

Raptor · « **Reply #2787 on:** April 21, 2016, 09:41:50 am »

Quote from: maxent on April 21, 2016, 08:57:30 am

He stared up into the dewy sky now littered with stars, wiped his brow and psyched himself up for his next attempt. Like magic, his quads dishibited, his glutes engaged for the first time, propelling him across the ground in 3 long bounds, he had finally set a PR behind him. How did it happen and more importantly what could he do to repeat it? He had done the same thing over and over, a thousand times before. It was a random mutation which unlocked in him a movement efficiency never before seen. Never to be seen again, he grimaced, the lens of his camera had retracted, propped on 3 shaky legs sat unevenly in the unruly grass. NO would ever believe him and the recording had cut out just as he began the rep, recalling @adarqui who had told him to be aggressive and not take so long to begin. And he repeats the insanity, expecting this time things would be different, but not today.

I just told my psychiatrist this, and he prescribed me a whole bunch of medication. Like I needed any extra ones!

T0ddday · « **Reply #2788 on:** April 21, 2016, 05:00:48 pm »

Name one exercise you improve weekly at. And don't say something like squats where you cut to 160 and lose your squat and then gain weight about your squat weekly...

If you improved weekly by 5 lbs in your squat you would add 250lbs a year to your squat.

maxent · « **Reply #2789 on:** April 22, 2016, 01:33:09 am »

If you just started squats for the first time and were doing them at 3x8 (or whatever), you would be surprised if you stalled within 2 weeks! The difference is the broad jumps are ME and the squats wouldnt normally be done ME.

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Author Topic: chasing athleticism (Read 1467354 times)

adarqui

Re: chasing athleticism

T0ddday

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maxent

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maxent

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maxent

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Raptor

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T0ddday

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maxent

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LBSS

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Raptor

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LBSS

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maxent

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Raptor

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T0ddday

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maxent

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